Banned

CollegeGirl

Registered User
Jan 19, 2011
9,525
0
North East England
My mam has been banned from the day centre. The staff are not sufficiently trained to deal with her aggression and violence and she is putting the staff and other users at risk.

I don't know what to do now, to help my dad. I can't look after her myself. Are there such things as EMI nursing day centres?
 

rajahh

Registered User
Aug 29, 2008
2,790
0
Hertfordshire
Oh I am so sorry. I honestly have no idea. Does the Day Centre have any suggestions for help.

Perhaps your Dad will finally realise just how bad your Mum is and ask for more assistance.

Once again, so sorry Jeannette
 

Grannie G

Volunteer Moderator
Apr 3, 2006
81,452
0
Kent
Oh this is awful CG.

Your poor dad. Has he contact with a Mental Health Team. I know your mother has been seen by Mental Health people but do they still have contact.
 

Saffie

Registered User
Mar 26, 2011
22,513
0
Near Southampton
CG - I hate to say it but I really think that temporary respite is no longer enough for your mother. Perhaps it is confusing her more than if once there, she could stay there.
I know your father won't like it but this is not helping him at all, is it.

I know I hated my husband not being allowed to come home after his amputation and I still feel terrible guilt and some resentment but that is because I wasn't allowed the opportunity to try having him at home. Whereas your father has and has done wonderfully for a long time now and my husband wasn't aggressive at all so how much harder that is. Do try to perusade him - for all your sakes, including your mum's. XXX
 

grove

Registered User
Aug 24, 2010
7,714
0
North Yorkshire
Oh C Girl am so sorry :( for you all especially for your Mam , no real help but Grannie G 's idea is good about your Dad having contact with the Mental Health Team ( hope he does ? or they should contact him?)


Much Love & Comforting Hugs

( just a thought the Altz National Phone Helpline might be able to help ? as regards suitable Day Care for your Mam ) Hope it helps ( number on main Web Page )


Love & Hugs


Love Grove x x
 

FifiMo

Registered User
Feb 10, 2010
4,703
0
Wiltshire
Hiya CG,

I wonder if this is the point at which your dad will start to realise that he can't continue without something happening. I was wondering if you could perhaps help engineer things so they happen gradually without your dad realising. By this I mean rather than day care could your mum start by going for residential care, say, 4 days a week and then home with your dad for 3 days. The hope being that over time your dad realises that your mum is in the right place in the home and that rather than taking her home, he can visit every day if he likes but has additional staff there to help carry the load.

Funding/payment could be for full time care with your dad merely taking your mum for a few days, which is acceptable. It means however that on a bad day you're not waiting to get respite arranged. Your dad can take your mum back immediately. Same goes if he is unwell. Although these plans can be put in place, we found with my mother that we had lots of plans, take her on holiday, take her home for Christmas Day, take her to the garden centre for a cup of tea and slice of cake...very quickly we found none of them materialised because the routine of the home was what she needed and the people who were familiar to her were her new extended family and it was us who had to fit in with her and not the other way round. I know your mum has been on respite before but this would be different because her room is there all the time. Respite is one off periods of time that don't leave much time for your mum to settle. This would be a permanent 'part time' arrangement.

At least this way when your mum is away, she is cared for and your dad is completely released from the caring role such that he is not constrained by day care times etc. doesn't mean he won't continue to worry though!

I reckon that very quickly the number of days at home will reduce naturally or things will escalate at the home such that they perhaps have to take DoLs safeguarding action, which is beyond the control of your dad.

Lots of arguments that can be used to help your dad. Winter is approaching. Bad weather. Not nice to have to get mum up and dressed and out to day care every day. He would still be her carer but with other people around to give immediate support. You feel that you might be more able to visit your mum too if there were more people around.

Anyway, just my thoughts...

Fiona
 

Saffie

Registered User
Mar 26, 2011
22,513
0
Near Southampton
Having read Fiona's post, I have to agree. I think it sounds a really sensible option.
If you can get your father to understand that he is not giving up caring for your Mum, far from it - I''m worrying all the time about Dave and am very much involved with his care - it's just in a different way. I do hope you can sort something out. X
 

zelana

Registered User
Feb 11, 2013
127
0
N E Lincs
Following on from Fifi's post I wonder if it's possible to reverse the traditional idea of day care so that your Mum lives in a care home but goes for 'day care' with your Dad.
 

Bumblegirl

Registered User
Nov 17, 2012
86
0
Hi,

I think you need to let your dad manage this his way. He has resisted all efforts as he wants to do it his way. If i were you, I would step back and wait until he asks for help. He needs to sort out a permanent solution, whatever it is. Perhaps a week of non stop caring may focus his mind a little. This is a long term illness and coping from week to week becomes impossible after a while. I'm sure he will see sense shortly.

Try not to get too involved unless he actually is prepared to properly consider all options.
Good luck with things.
BG
 

CollegeGirl

Registered User
Jan 19, 2011
9,525
0
North East England
Thank you so much for all your support and suggestions. I personally like Fiona's idea very much. Persuading my dad is a different matter. I do so appreciate all your help, everything sounds so sensible and useful, but it's difficult when things fall at the first hurdle, i.e. dad. He is not really behaving rationally at the moment because he is so bogged down. In reality I think Bumblegirl's plan is what will actually happen, much as I would like to think otherwise. I've tried just about every argument that I can think of, or has been suggested to me. Thank you all. I'm sorry.

He has asked me now to research another question, which I am going to start another thread about.
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,081
0
Bury
CG

EMI care homes that do both full time care and day care do exist.

I've PMed you details of one in N Manchester to prove it.
 

LYN T

Registered User
Aug 30, 2012
6,958
0
Brixham Devon
Hi CG

Sorry that you and your Mum and Dad are going through this.

Before P went to a CH he also had his place at Daycare withdrawn for the same reasons.The Carers had to consider the other users and the staff.

To cut a very long story short P is happy in the CH-I think happier than when he was at home sometimes-but then he has no recollection of home or me his wife:(

He has got used to the routine (as far as someone can with no memory ) and is kept busy with activities. I see him everyday and take him out and I have more energy as I'm getting more sleep.

I was like your Dad and resistant to help. I thought I could do it all.I was pushed into my Husband going to a care home so I had no choice in the end. All I can say to you is it's working. It may work for your Mum and Dad. Softly, softly to start with. As Fiona says, build up the days.

Good luck

Love from Lyn T
 

SnowLeopard17

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
173
0
Hampshire,UK
Hi Collegegirl,
Just to empathise with you. My other half was also banned from the day centre due to aggression and inability to cope with his needs (a long story).
We are also now on our third care agency (part of the long story) - this current agency took some finding but they are excellent - the care however is provided at home but does allow me to get out for some respite.
The care agency is part of a franchise and they do specialise in dementia care - f you are interested I could let you have their name by PM.
take care
Snow Leopard, with love x
 

CollegeGirl

Registered User
Jan 19, 2011
9,525
0
North East England
Thank you all.

My husband popped round to see them (and his own mam is poorly again with a chest infection [she has COPD and nearly died before Christmas] so I was really grateful) but he couldn't stay long because mam kept trying to wrestle him out. Dad said for us not to go round any more until he calls us.

I can see the end coming.
 

Brucie

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
12,413
0
near London
My mam has been banned from the day centre. The staff are not sufficiently trained to deal with her aggression and violence and she is putting the staff and other users at risk.
My Jan was banned after her second visit to a day centre. In my experience these places are really only suitable to cope with passive Alzheimer's patients. Jan had vascular dementia and was therefore more of a handful.
My only solution was to lock us both in our home and do all the caring myself until circumstances changed when Jan fell in the care of the local assessment ward and then I lost having her at home entirely.
 

CollegeGirl

Registered User
Jan 19, 2011
9,525
0
North East England
Brucie, I'm so sorry. I suspect something similar will happen here. Dad seems mostly caring alone now. Morning carers have been cancelled because it wasn't working (evening carers still coming but only 3 times a week, I believe). Daycare cancelled. Friends and family can no longer visit. Even phone calls are almost impossible as mam hates him using the phone, so only essential calls are taken or made.

It's breaking my heart and there doesn't seem to be a thing I can do about it because dad seems to think this is his only choice. The only choice his conscience will allow him to make. What a hero he is but I'm scared that he'll soon be a dead hero, and I can't stop it.

One light at the end of the tunnel is that a few days respite is coming up, from Monday 12 August. This is in a different care home from previously, so let's see.

But until then, dad has a full week of care with no breaks.

I feel as though I'm holding my breath, waiting for the major crisis which I can feel looming.
 

zigandzag

Registered User
Mar 24, 2012
272
0
Birmingham
Hi CG - I haven't been here for a while and am still getting used to the new format.

Just wanted to say how sorry I am to hear about your mam - it must be pure torture.

Just a thought - have you tried ringing the Admiral Nurses line? They are nurses who only deal with dementia patients - I've found them to be very helpful.

My mom's aggression is getting worse too - but that could be the change of meds we've done recently... hard to tell. She has been going for the carers faces this week when they have tried to assist so I know how you feel.

Just wanted to say I'm sorry and you're in my thoughts a lot x
 

CollegeGirl

Registered User
Jan 19, 2011
9,525
0
North East England
Hi Z&Z, it's so nice to hear from you, I was wondering where you were!

Thanks for the tip about Admiral Nurses, which prompted me to look on their website. I think someone else mentioned them to me a while ago, too. Unfortunately they don't appear to operate in the North East, but I'll keep checking the site in case that changes. It does sound like a good service.

I'm so sorry to hear about your mum's increased aggresion. It's awful, isn't it? I wish I had an answer for you. I hope it's just a phase, or that it doesn't get any worse. Does your mum have any sedatives that can be given? Dad can give my mam two half tablets of lorazepam a day but really needs more than this as the calming effect is so short lived. He has to time the tablets carefully according to what's planned for that day, ie carer visits, day centre, etc. Although it's irrelevant now really with the recent events.

Try to take care of yourself too. Easy said, I know xxx
 

sistermillicent

Registered User
Jan 30, 2009
2,949
0
I am so sorry to hear this CG, I know how impossible it is to persuade your dad to let your mum be cared for by someone else and it must be as if his worst fears have been realised....other people can't do it.
yes there are EMI day centres, my mum goes to one.
BUT I have another suggestion which may be something you think is completely wrong but here goes. how about seeing if antipsychotic medication would help your mum? This is what we did with mum and it has enabled dad to keep her at home. Prior to this she was threatening and looking likely to kill him, throwing knives at our faces and hitting us and losing her temper completely every day. It stopped all this behaviour virtually overnight. Don't be fobbed off with the occasional tranquiliser, they don't work.
Dad won't let mum go permanently. No amount of reasoning will change this. It makes no difference how much stress or inconvenience this causes to anyone else. Even though he understands all the arguments.
Although I accept that this is his relationship with her it still impacts on me and it hurts that he does not consider this to be relevant in the slightest. It is very upsetting to be shut out of their relationship like this but it is something over which I have no control. I struggle to deal with it.

I hope you are having a better day today but can't imagine you are.
love xx
 

CollegeGirl

Registered User
Jan 19, 2011
9,525
0
North East England
Thank you SisterM - I'm so happy that antipsychotics worked for your mum. Unfortunately my mam's consultant refuses to consider them. She is quite anti-medication on the whole and we have such a struggle to get her to try things. Then dad read that anti-psychotics increase the risk of stroke, and that was that. Now he won't consider them either.

You can see what I'm up against.

But perhaps it's time to try again. Trouble is that I'm so sick and tired of it all.