Banks and powers of attorney

Discussion in 'I care for a person with dementia' started by Stanley1!, Feb 7, 2019.

  1. Stanley1!

    Stanley1! New member

    Feb 7, 2019
    2
    ive recently had a run in with my mother’s bank. I have an old enduring POA which is registered. All I want to do is do internet banking for my mother’s account. If I lodge the POA with the bank they say they automatically assume nil capacity and will stop,her debit card. She lives with me so I can monitor her use and I’m trying to encourage small bits of independence. They are adamant. The only option is to take away her card and issue a new one, to me, which I then authorise her to use. This feels like it would be a massive slap in the face for her. Surely if I have POA I ought to be able to decide what capacity my mother has and not have the bank make that decision for me. Does anyone else have any experience?
     
  2. Louise7

    Louise7 Registered User

    Mar 25, 2016
    1,060
    Welcome to TP. It's a difficult situation but it's not unusual for banks to assume that if a POA is being registered with them it's because the account holder can no longer manage their finances. If your Mum is able to use a debit card with you monitoring its use will she know/mind if the debit card has your name on it instead of hers? You may feel that this is 'a massive slap in the face' but it may be that she doesn't feel the same way and will use the card regardless of the name on it. Alternatively, if she still has mental capacity could she go to the bank with you to request internet banking access?
     
  3. Duggies-girl

    Duggies-girl Registered User

    Sep 6, 2017
    1,470
    Hi @stanley1 I have just registered POA with my dad's bank purely because he is in hospital and it is possible that he may need a care home when he comes out. The bank was very helpful and I should be getting a card of my own POA and they are going to link dad's account to mine as we have the same bank.

    When I log in to my bank account I should be able to view dad's account at the same time and do an necessary banking for him.

    At the same time I told them dad's card has gone missing (I can't find it anywhere) so they have sent him a new one with the same pin number and that is now in his wallet at home. I wanted dad to keep his own card even if he never uses it again as it is his last bit of independence even if it isn't really.
     
  4. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,621
    Female
    London
    I'm sorry but I can understand where they are coming from, as this is the old-style enduring POA. The gov.uk website stipulates that
    "You must register the EPA when the donor starts to lose or has lost their mental capacity. This means they can’t make a decision at the time it needs to be made because of a mental impairment."

    You've registered it with the OPG and with her bank so naturally they are of the opinion that she has lost capacity. You will have to take over I am afraid.
     
  5. Grahamstown

    Grahamstown Registered User

    Jan 12, 2018
    1,242
    East of England
    I too was wondering if it was the old enduring power of attorney because I registered the newer lasting power of attorney with my husbands bank without being a joint account holder and no card in order to manage the account for him.
     
  6. Stanley1!

    Stanley1! New member

    Feb 7, 2019
    2
    It is the old EpOA - but it’s supposedto be treated the same
     
  7. SewHappy

    SewHappy Registered User

    Feb 3, 2019
    11
    Husband and I have joint LPA for my mum. We recently registered it with two different banks. Each asked us if we thought mum had capacity and whether she could have continued access to her account. At the time it was marginal but taking away her cards felt like final taking of her independence so we said she could have access too. So mum has bank card and we have cards in our names and internet banking etc. In reality mum can't get to bank without us and her cards are in our safe but I didn't feel ready to say she had no capacity. Bigger problem was one bank took ages to process the registration on the account while they held lot of money at very rubbish interest rate.
     
  8. SewHappy

    SewHappy Registered User

    Feb 3, 2019
    11
    Meant to say mum in care home so she doesn't really need access to account.
     
  9. Grahamstown

    Grahamstown Registered User

    Jan 12, 2018
    1,242
    East of England
    In that case they don’t appear to be doing that. I am registered through the LPA to manage his account online and our daughter is also registered as another attorney. My husband has his bank card but I didn’t want one even though I was told that I could. He can’t remember the pin but because of contactless he can still use it without being vulnerable unless it’s stolen which is true for anyone. This seems to be what you wanted and what you and your mum would be legally entitled to, so would asking citizens advice be any good?
     
  10. doodle1

    doodle1 Registered User

    May 11, 2012
    240
    I have the old EPA and as far as I have always understood it ,once it has been registered with the office of the public guardian ,the donor ie the PWD can longer sign anything financial or hold a bank card as they are deemed to have lost capacity. It is different to the new EPA for finance.
     
  11. Helly68

    Helly68 Registered User

    Mar 12, 2018
    368
    I am afraid this won't help, but many banks just don't know how LPA works. My Mum's bank kept saying "but why doesn't she come in" - she's been in a care home for a while now and my Dad's bank lost the paperwork twice so far to process his LPA. I think the local branches have no training and everything is done centrally.
     
  12. jugglingmum

    jugglingmum Registered User

    Jan 5, 2014
    5,021
    Female
    Chester

    They aren't the same as the old EPOA can only be used once capacity is lost, so if you are registering an old EPOA with the bank this means that your mother has lost capacity and legally the bank have to remove her cards once they become aware it is registered with the OPG.

    Doodle 1 is correct.

    With the new LPA then both donor and donee can operate the account at the same time.
     
  13. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,621
    Female
    London
    Doodle1 is right. The requirement to register the old-style EPA once capacity is lost by default means that the donor can no longer manage their financial affairs, so the attorney must take over. I'm afraid telling stories about your experiences with the new LPA are just confusing the issue.
     

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