Badly let down by the CSCI

Tender Face

Account Closed
Mar 14, 2006
5,379
NW England
Brucie said:
Did you try telephoning them and speaking directly?

Anyway, my point was, the [spoken] word is mightier than the keyboard or the pen, to bend a saying.
Brucie, First attempt at quotes so when I've got it all wrong I am sure you will correct me!!!

Only point here (and I've got another on email which Norman and Aine helped me on which I will post in its relevant thread) is that the spoken word is not recorded for posterity, unless taped and/or witnessed. All I would say to anyone, if making a complaint (or especially in the process of chasing up a serious complaint) by phone, back up your interpretation of the conversation (with whoever) and the points you believe to have been discussed/agreed in writing with something along the lines of ...... 'unless I hear from you otherwise....'

Just a thought.....
 

Tender Face

Account Closed
Mar 14, 2006
5,379
NW England
noelphobic said:
Hi Tender Face

I think she is probably the 'top dog' in the office,

Is 'she' is top 'dog', then I think there is another word!!!!:D :D

If the home had admitted its mistakes in the first place, apologised and promised to tighten up its procedures then I would have left it at that. As they will not accept any responsibility whatsoever then I am not accepting it and will fight on.
With you all the way there - usually my view - but in a sense if we settle for a 'quick apology' how do we know things are not just being 'brushed under the carpet' to happen again for someone else another day? You are being hugely brave to take this on and keep going - it may help other families as well as yours.... that's a lot to ask of you. Hugs and support here (and plenty of fighting spirit most days) if you need it!!!

Love, TF
 

Tender Face

Account Closed
Mar 14, 2006
5,379
NW England
Ooops, and I got all my quotes wrong!!!!

The naughty bit (b**ch) (in case anyone hasn't sensed my rotten humour yet!) was me everyone, not Noelphobic! :eek: Where's Brusice when I need him?:)

Will keep trying harder!:)
 

Brucie

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
12,413
near London
Tender Face said:
back up your interpretation of the conversation (with whoever)
Yes I absolutely agree with that. I was just making the point not to omit the talking bit. Always document everything!
 

Norman

Registered User
Oct 9, 2003
4,348
Birmingham Hades
Bruce is so right about keeping a log of everything.
I was successful with a formal complaint against SS.
My strong point was that I had kept a record of every telephone call,the dates,times,who was spoken to , their replies and promises (mainly unkept).
Norman
 

noelphobic

Registered User
Feb 24, 2006
3,452
Liverpool
Reply from Regulation Manager

I was supposed to get a reply by 18th April at the latest but got a phone call the previous week to say that the Regulation Manager was on sick leave so it would be delayed.

I finally got a reply today and am not quite sure what to make of it :confused: It doesn't appear to be a complete whitewash like the initial reply but .....

One paragraph says

'the issue in relation to concern (a) that an ambulance was called for Mrs C on 28/11/05 only after her family requested one, remains unresolved. In the review of the evidence on this aspect I HAVE IDENTIFIED WHAT I CONSIDER TO BE A MORE SERIOUS ISSUE CONNECTED TO THE SAFETY OF RESIDENTS AND THEIR HEALTH AND WELFARE, AND I WILL BE ADDRESSING MY CONCERNS TO MRS N (THE OWNER OF THE 'CARE' HOME).'

It says later

'in view of further information received from Mrs N, as requested by Mrs T (CSCI Inspector), Mrs T wrote to Mrs N ..... Mrs T made 2 requirements .... action that MUST be taken by the provider to meet the requirements as they are under the Care Standards Act 2000. These requirement will be monitored by Mrs T'

also

'with regard to your email ... I need to let you know that i intend to make further enquiries into ..... and therefore seek your permission to use parts of the email if we feel it is necessary. I would be grateful if you would confirm you are in agreement with this.'

It all seems to raise more questions than answers. I do not know what the 'more serious issue' is and I do not know what the 2 requirements that have been made are. I have a feeling that I will never know although I will obviously do my best to find out.
 

Tender Face

Account Closed
Mar 14, 2006
5,379
NW England
noelphobic said:
It all seems to raise more questions than answers. I do not know what the 'more serious issue' is and I do not know what the 2 requirements that have been made are. I have a feeling that I will never know although I will obviously do my best to find out.
Hi, Noelphobic. Sorry, all, I always seem to revert back to 'kid's stuff' but there are so many parallels, I know when I made a complaint to SSD (as the 'regulators' of private childcare some 10 years ago about a nursery my son attended (and was swiftly removed from!) I had a similar response.

I guess it's confidentiality that SSD couldn't tell me why my particular concerns prompted investigations on other concerns which they would not disclose... I just worried myself sick I had left my son in a place I had thought to be safe, subsequently identified some issues - but had been blind to others.....

Thanks to prompting on TP (from yourself included) I have done some 'homework' on care homes in my area - for the 'when and if' the need arises for mum. I did find the CSCI reports fasciinating - especially where 'requirements' had been set out in previous reports/inspections and not fulfilled.......

You may 'never know' - but at least you know you've done enough to hopefully ensure the same horrible experience will not happen again for anyone else. Not much consolation for what you and your family have gone through.....but 'well done', and thank you!

What is it you feel most uncomfortable with just now? Need to share?

Love, Karen, x
 

noelphobic

Registered User
Feb 24, 2006
3,452
Liverpool
Tender Face said:
You may 'never know' - but at least you know you've done enough to hopefully ensure the same horrible experience will not happen again for anyone else. Not much consolation for what you and your family have gone through.....but 'well done', and thank you!

What is it you feel most uncomfortable with just now? Need to share?

Love, Karen, x
Hi Karen

I'm not convinced that the same thing won't happen again. At no time have the CSCI agreed with my statement that it is not acceptable to not call an ambulance until a member of the family is at the scene. The home have lied about the fact that the ambulance was only called when I demanded it and this is not proveable.

I feel extremely uncomfortable with the thought that I will never know what the new concerns that were raised are and what the 2 requirements are. I am also unsure as to whether I am supposed to now consider the situation resolved. I would imagine not, in view of the fact that they have said they are making further enquiries and are seeking my permission to use parts of my email if necessary.

I am happy to know that the fact that a complaint was made will be on the record of the home concerned and hope it does mean they will be more carefully monitored.

The letter from the CSCI also states about their role 'we have no statutory powers or responsibilities to investigate complaints ..... The responsibility for handling concerns and complaints about their service rests with the provider'. I find that extremely worrying!

Also 'the issue concerning inadequate notice to Mrs C prior to her discharge from .... is a contractual matter between you and Mrs N (owner of home)'

I believe it is the CSCI that make it a requirement that 'service users' have contracts. What is the point of a contract if it is not enforceable! What is ironic about this is the fact that because we have not paid for the last few weeks care fees for the period that my mum was in hospital, the home have turned it over to Social Services to chase the 'debt'. How is is that they can enforce a contract that is nothing to do with them but CSCI is not interested in getting the home to keep to the contract ie follow correct procedures when discharging residents?

Rant over (for now)
 

noelphobic

Registered User
Feb 24, 2006
3,452
Liverpool
noelphobic said:
Hi Karen

I feel extremely uncomfortable with the thought that I will never know what the new concerns that were raised are and what the 2 requirements are. I am also unsure as to whether I am supposed to now consider the situation resolved. I would imagine not, in view of the fact that they have said they are making further enquiries and are seeking my permission to use parts of my email if necessary.
It has just occurred to me that if the CSCI aren't fothcoming with the information on what the 'serious issue' and the 2 requirements are, can I find out under the Freedom of Information Act?

I'm getting ahead of myself here but it may be worth considering.
 

noelphobic

Registered User
Feb 24, 2006
3,452
Liverpool
Nada said:
Have you been in touch with anyone for legal advice about this? Have you tried the Alzheimer's Helpline - they may be able to point you in the right direction. The number is 0845 300 0336.

Best wishes
Nada
Hi Nada

I haven't taken legal advice as yet but haven't discounted the possibility. I have always seen the legal route as being a last resort and the CSCI investigation does not appear to have been completed yet. Also, I have some worries about the legal advice. Who pays for it? I don't qualify for legal aid and can't really use my mum's money without her say so and she is not capable of agreeing.

Another thing about the letter from the CSCI is that they state that breach of contract is a matter between us and the home, as are all contractual matters. However, as we haven't paid the last bill owing the home have passed the matter on to Social Services or the Local Authority (will have to check with my sister which one it is as she has the correspondence). If the contract is only a matter between the home and us then why is it OK to involve a third party in the matter of the bills? Yet another point I will raise.

I will be emailing CSCI tomorrow so will let you know what happens.

Thanks for the phone number, Nada, I will bear that in mind.
 

sequoia

Registered User
Jul 3, 2005
19
London
Poor quality of care for the elderley and vulnerable

I sympathize wholeheartedly and just feel furious this stuff is going on. Similar things have happened to one of my relatives and there just doesn't really seem to be anyone with enough care and power to do something about the lax and sometimes negligent care provided to the most vulnerable. There sems to be a lot of buck-passing going on.

If it helps, you really are not alone in what you experiencing. But, use some of your energy to pressure to ensure better care. You could perhaps also write directly to the minister overseeing care of the elderly. Phone the Houses of Parliament to find out who this is and/or find out the civil service department and phone them to get advice -- I've found them very helpful.
 

noelphobic

Registered User
Feb 24, 2006
3,452
Liverpool
sequoia said:
I sympathize wholeheartedly and just feel furious this stuff is going on. Similar things have happened to one of my relatives and there just doesn't really seem to be anyone with enough care and power to do something about the lax and sometimes negligent care provided to the most vulnerable. There sems to be a lot of buck-passing going on.

If it helps, you really are not alone in what you experiencing. But, use some of your energy to pressure to ensure better care. You could perhaps also write directly to the minister overseeing care of the elderly. Phone the Houses of Parliament to find out who this is and/or find out the civil service department and phone them to get advice -- I've found them very helpful.
Hi and thanks for the sympathy.

No matter what does or doesn't come of this complaint I cannot imagine ever regretting instigating it. I am also glad that I didn't accept the first response that I got, although that would have been very easy to do and I couldn't blame anyone else for doing the same.

Quoting from the most recent letter from CSCI

'If I could begin by way of explanation to you of the role CSCI has regarding Complaints. We have no statutory powers or responsibilities to investigate complaints'

I find that extremely disturbing :eek:

However, the letter ends by saying

'I do appreciate the situation you found yourself in and wish to assure you that the Commission will actively pursue any provider that does not comply with the regulations, and will stamp out poor practice.'

These appear to be two contradictory statements.

I feel most sorry for people in these homes who have no one to look out for them, no one to visit and report any concerns. That is one of the reasons I have pursued the matter. Sadly, many of the residents in the home my mum was in had few if any visitors. This home also had an unannounced inspection last year because there had been an anonymous call alleging that residents were being got out of bed extremely early - from 5am onwards :eek: This complaint was proven but I only found out by looking at the reports on the CSCI website. There should be legislation in place that requires ANY substantiated complaint to be reported to relatives of residents, providing no ones privacy is breached in the process.

I'll climb off the soap box now (never needs dusting as I'm on it so often) :D
 

Tender Face

Account Closed
Mar 14, 2006
5,379
NW England
noelphobic said:
Quoting from the most recent letter from CSCI

'If I could begin by way of explanation to you of the role CSCI has regarding Complaints. We have no statutory powers or responsibilities to investigate complaints' :D
Hi, Noel, sorry got 'broken off' from replying to this the other evening....

As you say, they seem to contradict themselves - where do the two statements fit with what they publish on their website and your situation?: - e.g. 'In the most extreme case - such as when we receive allegations of serious abuse or something that endangers people's lives - we have the legal powers to act immediately.'

Statutory and legal - ain't they something very similar if not quite the same?

In my book (FWIW) failing to call an ambulance when clearly needed endangers a life - and that would go for a stranger on the street, although there may be no responsibility there other than being a good' Samaritan'.

Good luck with this, of course - keep ranting! With you all the way!

Karen, x

(PS: Thanks for the tip on avoiding dusting!!!!!!:D )
 

Amy

Registered User
Jan 4, 2006
3,453
Hiya Karen,
Quickly scanned your reply, and then had to reread the PS. Thought it read 'Thanks for the tip on avoiding lusting!!!!!!'
Ah.have found the dusting reference now.
Love Amy
 
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noelphobic

Registered User
Feb 24, 2006
3,452
Liverpool
I emailed CSCI to ask if they had a more recent inspection report than the one on their website (December 2005). I did this because I wasn't sure whether the inspector's visit to discuss my complaint would count as an inspection visit. I received a reply to say that there is no more recent report yet but they are due a visit soon. CSCI are unable to give me the date because it will be an unannounced inspection! I don't think it's anything to do with my complaint but I am surprised that they have told me there will be a visit. This didn't come from the local office but from the address on the national website.

I've also just found out that the sister of my mum's ex room-mate used to be in the same 'care' home!
 

LindaD

Registered User
Nov 17, 2004
30
Suffolk
Ambulance

I have just read this post - my experience recently when Mum was rushed to hospital couldn't have been more different!

The home had called a doctor to her earlier in the day - who declined to come out and reccommended paracetamol. The home wasn't happy with this and as she got worse, they called an ambulance, notifying me at the same time. The ambulance got there before I did. I did go in the ambulance with her but mainly because she was responding to me better than the ambulance men. They said I could follow by car if I preferred so I didn't have to be in there with them.

The ambulance men were very critical of the GP for not coming out and full of praise for the staff at the home.
 

Amy

Registered User
Jan 4, 2006
3,453
That is such a reassuring post to read Linda, let's hope that there are plenty of homes like that one.
Thank you.
Amy
 

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