1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

    Sam, our Knowledge Officer (Legal and Welfare Rights) is our expert on this topic. She will be here to answer your questions on Wednesday 26 June between 3:30 - 4:30 pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

  1. Little Vik

    Little Vik Registered User

    Oct 4, 2007
    5
    Hi everyone,
    This first post may seem a little bit harsh, but i wanted other peoples views.
    My Nana has alzheimers and has deteriorated very very quickly. My mum is her main carer and they have some what of a turbulant relationship with massive rows and arguments. Most of the time these result in my mum storming out and me going round to make sure my nans at home and done whatever it is she thinks she can do.

    I am convinced some of the arguments my nan starts are for attention and to get my mum to stay longer. The best thing for my mum to do is to walk away, but shes scared of what might happen if she does walk away and leave my nan in one of her moods.

    Does anyone else think some of it is for attention?
     
  2. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,722
    Kent
    Hello Vik, welcome to TP.

    I used to think these outbursts were attention seeking but now am not so sure.

    Another thing I have learnt from experience is how futile it is to argue with someone with Alzheimers. Those with the condition are unable to have a logical discussion or see any reason to accept another`s point of view.

    If your mother tried not to let the row or argument escalate in the first place, by agreeing with your Nana, backing off, or trying to distract her, she would be able to walk away without leaving her in too bad a mood.

    The arguments are based on either fear, misunderstanding or wanting to hold on to her independence, rather than attention seeking, in my experience.

    Take care
     
  3. Little Vik

    Little Vik Registered User

    Oct 4, 2007
    5
    I think your spot on about the holding on to independance, thats what most of the rows are about. I guess if she was attention seeking she would have to be vaguely aware of what she is doing and i dont believe thats the case.
    My mum and nan are very similar and thats why i dont think my mum can let it wash over her or walk away.
    My mum tried to walk away last week in an argument and my nan called her weak for not arguing back!!!
     
  4. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,722
    Kent
    Oh dear !! :) Your mother must have a lot to put up with, as have we all.

    But better to let your nan have the last word and be allowed to call your mother weak, than get involved in, and all worked up by, a pointless argument.

    It`s not easy, I`ll admit and we can only learn by our own mistakes. For most of us it`s continuos learning.

    Love xx
     
  5. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #5 Margarita, Oct 4, 2007
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2007
    My mother always was very argumentative , even before AZ she just seem to love a drama in her life .

    I remember before I really did not know that my mother has AZ , she would draw in into those arguments as my father died she had no one to argue with but me , I never wanted to be drawn in to them , but it did upset me to the point that I lost my temper told her that I was never coming back . must say that it does take a lot for me to lose my temper mum knows that so she was very surprised


    Seeing that I was living with her had to go back anyway . she was so upset that she said sorry don't leave her , she never do it again , thinking now if she had been thinking in a rational way how could I have left her . I new she must have some mental illness to argue the way she was , just felt sorry for her really.

    So to me not arguing back that person is a strong person rather then weaker , so your mother done the right thing in just walking out . how can you argue with a person that thinking irrational . I always walk out , that the only way my mother finally listen to me

    I felt with my mother behind all that anger they a very scared person that does not understand why she feels so needy , she see me as her safety net . she won't get like that with people other then me because they would not put up with it , but I am family not saying that you should put up with it , but my mother ill .
     
  6. Nebiroth

    Nebiroth Registered User

    Aug 20, 2006
    3,518
    I think attention seeking is possible, although it may not be a conscious effort. I know my dad does this, because he is always much more "helpless" when mum is here than when it is just dad and I. And it's strange how vague "illnesses" manifest themselves when mum is due to go out for a while (which he hates).

    However, I also suspect that there is little conscious effort at manipulation (although he almost certainly does that as well).

    It is very difficult to tell whether there is attention seeking and whether it is deliberate or not - the source is more likely to be a genuine anxiety about something that can't be expressed. Also, I think there is an element of loss of social skills - think of a little child who has "tummy ache" before something they don't want to do. Adults generally don't do that - but again, that doesn;t preclude the possibility of a genuine "tummy ache".

    It's very difficult to tell.

    Grannie G is so right about futility. Someone with dementia is not open to reason, or logic, and will not respond to them. In particular there's no point in trying to point out the irrationality of ideas or arguments. They are right and nothing will change this. It is pointless to try. The only time to dissent and stick to your guns is when the situation could result in some sort of risk.

    Usually the advice is to stay calm, attempt to distract, go along with the delusions and if necessary say that you are going to walk out (of the room, or even of the house) and be prepared to carry thisout.
     
  7. carolr

    carolr Registered User

    Jul 12, 2007
    33
    bradford
    Hi all

    I think fear is the driving force behind most of the arguments that occur in the early/mid stages, my Dad was scared of what was happening to him didnt understand why he could not remember anything and was scared of us forgetting about him or early on sending him away. My Mum is a saint and answered every question 50 to 60 times very very rarely would she snap at him but when she did they would have a blazing row followed by Mum feeling so sorry and guilty.

    Walking away or agreeing is certainly the right way to handle things but its very difficult for a carer to do it all the time after all they are human too and AZ is so frustrating, trying to deal with some of the bizarre behaviour with no training and only the love that we have to keep us going.
     
  8. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,722
    Kent
    Dear Carol, you are so right. Fear is such a big factor. I agree with everything you say.
    Love xx
     
  9. Little Vik

    Little Vik Registered User

    Oct 4, 2007
    5
    #9 Little Vik, Oct 4, 2007
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2007
    Thanks for your views, my nan does seem to play up more for my mum then me, but i guess we do lash out to the ones closest. Plus i find it easier letting things wash over me. I think fear could play a big part in it, she knows whats happening to her and she knows my mums right in what she says - but my nan has never ever ever been one to admit shes wrong and i cant see that changing even now!!!



    Reading some of your stories on here you guys are amazing and it just reminds me again how the carers in our society are so forgotten
     

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