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Are we over reacting

PeggySmith

Registered User
Apr 16, 2012
1,683
BANES
Went to visit MIL today and it's "beach week". .Today's activity was a Punch and Judy show with popcorn and candy floss and MIL was up for it but she couldn't go. She is on the second floor of the house and her new chair won't fit into the lift. The carers felt that she's no longer safe in a wheelchair.

This essentially means that she can never again get her hair done or go out into the garden. She'll also miss out on any activities that happen downstairs. We're really upset and angry about it but not prepared to spend more money on a specialist wheelchair. So, the question is, are we over reacting and this is just a new stage that can't be helped or should the NH be doing more to include her?
 

jeany123

Registered User
Mar 24, 2012
19,036
70
Durham
I would be very upset, I think if there are activities in the CH everyone should be given a chance to join in if they want to, I don't know what to suggest but surely there must be something they can do,
 

ellejay

Registered User
Jan 28, 2011
4,018
Essex
I'm a bit puzzled, How do they get furniture & stuff upstairs then? Surely they use a lift?

There has to be a way to get people downstairs in the event of an emergency.

Suppose she ever has to attend hospital?

Lin x
 

Dave K

Account Closed
Apr 14, 2014
1,426
58
Barnsley (UK)
Went to visit MIL today and it's "beach week". .Today's activity was a Punch and Judy show with popcorn and candy floss and MIL was up for it but she couldn't go. She is on the second floor of the house and her new chair won't fit into the lift. The carers felt that she's no longer safe in a wheelchair.

This essentially means that she can never again get her hair done or go out into the garden. She'll also miss out on any activities that happen downstairs. We're really upset and angry about it but not prepared to spend more money on a specialist wheelchair. So, the question is, are we over reacting and this is just a new stage that can't be helped or should the NH be doing more to include her?
Hi Peggy

I would ask to see the person in charge (manager) of your MIL's care home and say to him/her that as you as you can not safely move my MIL if there was an emergency then you are putting her life at risk

No one in their right mind can say, "Sorry the wheelchair is to big to go downstairs" - Totally stupid in my thinking

It is up to the care home managers to come up with a solution and pretty damned fast in my opinion, like this afternoon...

How can they expect your MIL to stay upstairs.. Totally ludicrous and must be against all forms of human rights...
 

PeggySmith

Registered User
Apr 16, 2012
1,683
BANES
There is a lift, but MIL's Kirton chair is too big to fit into it - it originally arrived in two pieces. Really big stuff has to be carried up the main staircase. As for what would happen if there was a fire - I can't bear to think about it.

Apart from needing reassurance that I wasn't over reacting, I wondered if anyone know about wheelchairs that offer support to prevent her flopping over sideways.

Cross posted with you Dave - thanks for your input
 

Dave K

Account Closed
Apr 14, 2014
1,426
58
Barnsley (UK)
There is a lift, but MIL's Kirton chair is too big to fit into it - it originally arrived in two pieces. Really big stuff has to be carried up the main staircase. As for what would happen if there was a fire - I can't bear to think about it.

Apart from needing reassurance that I wasn't over reacting, I wondered if anyone know about wheelchairs that offer support to prevent her flopping over sideways.

Cross posted with you Dave - thanks for your input
In my thinking you have 4 options (in order of questions to ask)

1. Ask the manager if they can transport her downstairs in a smaller chair, if they can then this chair MUST be suitable to convey your MIL AND IS to be left in her room in case of an emergency

2. Insist that your MIL is moved to the ground floor

3. Buy a smaller chair but only if it is fit for purpose

4. Move your MIL to another home that has bigger lifts
 
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Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
11,902
London
For goodness' sake, they are putting her life at risk by not transporting her downstairs! This is against all Health & Safety and Fire Risk rules and something has to be done FAST. Whether it's getting her a smaller wheelchair or relocating her permanently downstairs - it's down to the care home to guarantee her safety so I would make a HUGE fuss about this. Get Social Services involved. Surely they don't want to be sued by you for leaving your MIL stranded in a potentially very dangerous situation?
 

jeany123

Registered User
Mar 24, 2012
19,036
70
Durham
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flowerball1

Registered User
Jan 16, 2014
18
Went to visit MIL today and it's "beach week". .Today's activity was a Punch and Judy show with popcorn and candy floss and MIL was up for it but she couldn't go. She is on the second floor of the house and her new chair won't fit into the lift. The carers felt that she's no longer safe in a wheelchair.

This essentially means that she can never again get her hair done or go out into the garden. She'll also miss out on any activities that happen downstairs. We're really upset and angry about it but not prepared to spend more money on a specialist wheelchair. So, the question is, are we over reacting and this is just a new stage that can't be helped or should the NH be doing more to include her?
I would be incensed...could they not take her down in the lift in a wheelchair and transfer her to her new chair once they are down. It would take a bit of faffing about, but surely the benefits for her would outweigh the additional work involved. Alternatively could she not be moved to a room on the ground floor where this wouldn't be a problem. There must be other options the NH could explore rather than you having to finance another wheelchair.
 

Dave K

Account Closed
Apr 14, 2014
1,426
58
Barnsley (UK)
I would be incensed...could they not take her down in the lift in a wheelchair and transfer her to her new chair once they are down. It would take a bit of faffing about, but surely the benefits for her would outweigh the additional work involved. Alternatively could she not be moved to a room on the ground floor where this wouldn't be a problem. There must be other options the NH could explore rather than you having to finance another wheelchair.

Exactly as I have said

In my thinking you have 4 options (in order of questions to ask)

1. Ask the manager if they can transport her downstairs in a smaller chair, if they can then this chair MUST be suitable to convey your MIL AND IS to be left in her room in case of an emergency

2. Insist that your MIL is moved to the ground floor

3. Buy a smaller chair but only if it is fit for purpose

4. Move your MIL to another home that has bigger lifts
 

Izzy

Volunteer Moderator
Aug 31, 2003
61,108
68
Dundee

Onlyme

Registered User
Apr 5, 2010
4,995
UK
Most places can get a bed in their lifts. What if someone needed to be taken out by the ambulance team on a stretcher? Would they have to be carted down the staircase?
 

Dave K

Account Closed
Apr 14, 2014
1,426
58
Barnsley (UK)
Most places can get a bed in their lifts. What if someone needed to be taken out by the ambulance team on a stretcher? Would they have to be carted down the staircase?
OOOOO - That thought horrifies me

How can a care home, caring for patients with multiple needs be allowed to have a second (or more) floor(s) if they have lifts for standing people only

(If this is the case)

Beggars belief to be honest...
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
19,929
North Manchester
You might find something >>>HERE<<< but it will be pricey.

As far as fire emergency is concerned the lift should not be used until sanctioned by the fire brigade, they may ban its use because of the extent of the fire/smoke.

In this case evac chairs would be used on the stairway(s) if required.

Having said that most of the nursing care home I looked at had a lift that would take an NHS stretcher/profile bed.
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
19,929
North Manchester
"Most places can get a bed in their lifts. What if someone needed to be taken out by the ambulance team on a stretcher? Would they have to be carted down the staircase?"

Yes, just like in most domestic situations.
 

Soobee

Registered User
Aug 22, 2009
2,734
South
You could not get a bed in the lift at mum's nursing home either, but it did fit a wheelchair. She was bed-bound but they got her up to her room in this wheelchair and then she was stuck up there in bed with no access to the lounge or activities. If she needed to go to hospital they would stretcher her down the stairs or prop her up somehow in the wheelchair and then transfer her on the ground floor.

I don't know if they ever tried to engage her with activities in her room but I doubt it.

This place sounds similar. I would ask that she is transferred downstairs in a wheelchair and then moved to a suitable seat in the lounge or ask that they find some way to include her by the activities person coming to her room and engaging with her one-to-one.

When mum first moved to her original home they put her in this lovely bucket chair with sheepskin on it, she seemed very comfy, it enabled her to watch the fireworks outside. then they said she wasn't allowed to use this chair any more so she was stuck in her room there. They advised us that we should pay £2,000 for a suitable one for her. I think they should have supplied a replacement for the bucket chair which suited her perfectly.

We considered getting her a chair but everything else we had bought she had rarely used more than twice, so we were not willing to spend that amount on a chair they should provide and which probably would not be deemed suitable by them anyway.
 
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nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
19,929
North Manchester
As all doors will be fire resistant and auto closing on alarm the most likely evacuation plan will be based on a 'stay put' principle until help arrives.

Most elderly residents, and certainly those with dementia, will require one to one assistance, there is no way any care home will be able to provide this, they have to wait for outside help.

The common practice of wedging non auto closing room doors open at night to make it easy to observe/listen out for residents is a major risk, the source of smoke may be between the carers/nurses and a wedged door.
 

davidsmith7474

Registered User
Jun 30, 2014
1
care home wheelchairs;

I actually have a care home, albeit a small one. I don't quite understand why the wheelchair can't fit in the lift, is it a specialised bariatric chair ( due to weight)? Or extra large due to physical needs?

Can any wheelchair fit in the lift? and can she use one of those to be transported down?

If the answer is no, then the room isn't suitable for her. Having several floors is normal. In my home, if residents can no longer walk at all, they must move to a room downstairs when one becomes available. As for fire evacuation, they should have an evacuation chair to help someone get down the stairs, or alternatively evacuation sledges

As for fire evacautions, they are in zones, so stage by stage, either horizontal and or/ vertical. Providing the floor she is on has a safe refuge which has access to the stairs and would be 2 fire doors away from a fire, then its fine.
 

PeggySmith

Registered User
Apr 16, 2012
1,683
BANES
Great big thanks to all who responded so quickly. I think I can assume that I'm not over reacting :D and will tackle the (new) manager tomorrow. A special thanks to Jeany123 for that link, it's not very expensive so I think the NH can be shamed into getting her one.