Any Social Worker available ? advice needed

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by Helena, Nov 20, 2006.

  1. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    Is anyone on this forum familiar with the 6 week rule and care homes

    The hospital say my Mother MUST be placed in a care home

    However I understand that after 6 weeks a formal visit is made by the Social worker with the family in attendance and just 1 question is asked

    Do you want to stay here or Do you want to go home ?

    We cannot fund a care home without selling her home and this needs to be done PDQ

    Insurance is invalid oif the property is not occupied every 40 days

    Insurance is invalid if doors are not locked etc etc ........so if Mother went wandering as she is wont to do !!!!!!!!

    Also Social Servcices will insist on fitting grab rails everywhere
    removing her favourite low chairs and replace them with high seated ones etc etc

    All of which my Mother would scream blue murder about

    As many have said " they do not want to be the one who tells my Mother she cant go home to her own home
     
  2. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438
    I don't know about the rest of it, but you can refuse these modification, or pick and choose which ones to have (or rather, your mother can) and they can't do a thing about it.

    Jennifer
     
  3. Amy

    Amy Registered User

    Jan 4, 2006
    3,453
    Hiya Helena,
    You have repeatedly said that your mum is not fit to live on her own - seems like the ideal opportunity now to move her into residential care. Even with adaptations she is not well enough to be on her own. Yes, there is going to be a lot of flak flying, but at least with hospital consultants, social workers etc, it won't be directed just at you and your sister.
    Love Helen
     
  4. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
    I've never heard of the '6 week rule' and care homes, Helena and my mum has now been in both an EMI and a nursing home in the space of 2 years. As far as the insurance goes, I don't think it is invalid if the insurance company has been informed that the house is unoccupied, although they may load the premium. Have you had any contact with a Social Worker? I would think that if residential care is being considered for your mum then a Social Worker will have been allocated and maybe you should ask her about this '6 week rule'.

    I agree with Jennifer that Social Services can only suggest modifications to your mum's home, they certainly can't insist on them.
     
  5. Kayla

    Kayla Registered User

    May 14, 2006
    621
    Kent
    Care Home Advice

    Dear Helena,
    I don't think the hospital or social workers can actually force your mother into a care home if she isn't willing to go, unless she is ill enough to be sectioned or is unaware of what is happening to her.
    When my mother-in-law was ill in hospital, she was clearly not well enough to return home, because she couldn't even stand up or feed herself properly in her weakened state. The hospital had to wait until family and friends had persuaded her to move into the home where her sister had been, so that she knew what it was like.
    It sounds as if the only way you will persuade your mother to go into a home, is if you tell her it is "just until she gets better". If a person is really determined not to go into care, then the social workers would be unhappy about forcing the issue. They cannot send someone home if they are not capable of looking after themselves, as they have a duty of care towards that person.
    If the insurance company were informed about a hospital patient, then surely they would have to continue the cover, even if it meant increasing the premium a little.
    I think you should let the hospital and social workers try and sort things out, as they are better equipped to deal with this type of situation and they will see for themselves, what a lot of problems you and your sister have had recently.
    Kayla
     
  6. Amy

    Amy Registered User

    Jan 4, 2006
    3,453
    Hiya Noelphobic,
    I think the 6 week rule is the maximum period that you can get Intermediate care provided by SS or NHS (not certain which), on leaving hospital.
    Helen
     
  7. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    Thanks All

    The 6 week rule has certainly been applied in my area as have the forced changes to chairs , grab rails etc

    That I do know from a friend trying to deal with a similar situation

    My Mother lives in a different area so i have yet to even get an appointment with the Consultant never mind get any info and its not for the want of asking

    So far have been summarily refused any appointment , questions remain unanswered

    They are giving Blood Transfusions , drips etc
    She is refusing meds and is capable of sending off nurses trying to do blood pressure readings with a flea in their ear

    You have to experience the wild variations in mood and cognition to understand the appalling dilema my sister and i are in
     
  8. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
    I see Helen. I didn't understand that Helena was talking about intermediate care. However, the following also needs to be borne in mind

    If the person with dementia owns their home, it may be counted as capital and may have to be sold to meet the cost of care home fees. If the home is not sold within a certain period of time, the local authority can put a legal charge on it and claim back what is owed when the house is sold. However, there is a period of 12 weeks' grace after the person decides to become a permanent resident at a home when the value of the house is not taken into account.


    Therefore, if the value of assets other than the home were below the cut off point for state aid then at least this first 12 weeks would not be charged for, apart from deductions from income.

    Plus, I don't see how anyone could be forced to make alterations to their home. It would be unworkable.

    One of the reasons why we have not yet sold my mum's home is because she is currently on a deferred payment scheme, and is therefore accumulating a debt at the rate the home charges the local authority. If her home was sold then she would be paying at the private rate which is £125 per week more! This is yet another possibility that needs to be borne in mind by anyone whose loved one goes into residential care, if they are the sole owner of a property.
     
  9. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    Thanks Neolphobic

    It could be that the friend who told me about the 6 week rule forgot about intermediate care and also the house was rented but i will make some judicous phone calls locally

    Is an interest rate accrued on the deferred payment scheme ?

    Whats the situation if they have just over the £20K savings limit
    and if they have some pension income

    I can certainly see the sense in a defferred payment scheme from the point of view of ONLY paying what Social Services pay

    Plus if you sold the house and became self funding the income tax burden on the interest received from such a large amount of money rapidly diminshes the ability to fund the care home fees
     
  10. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
    Hi Helena

    Interest only accrues on the debt to the local authority after the death of the owner. I think it starts to accrue pretty soon after - maybe something like 4 weeks but not sure off the top of my head - but while they are still alive it is an interest free loan.

    If they have over the limit then they will pay the full whack until they are under the limit, although this could obviously sometimes only be a case of a week or two. Once they are under that top limit they pay on a sliding scale until their assets are down to £12500. Any income is taken into account anyway, even if someone is fully funded. I think they are just left with a 'personal allowance' which is something like £20 per week and the rest goes toward the fees.

    I don't think all homes necessarily charge one rate to Social Services and one rate to private funders but I think it is fairly common. I was also surprised that we were only accruing a debt at the lower rate and am still not sure that this hasn't been an oversight on someone's part! However, Social Services are only paying the nursing home the lower rate, the nursing home hasn't asked us for the difference and we do get a regular statement showing the debt, so that is how it looks so far.

    Hope this is of some help.

    Brenda
     
  11. chip

    chip Registered User

    Jul 19, 2005
    400
    Scotland
    Why should ill people pay for their care no matter what age they are? Thought that is what NI was paid for of the wages when they worked? How many ill people are still taxed my husband is and on a K code as well. What has the money gone to that these people have paid in their working lives? and what is the tax that they are paying now going towards?
     
  12. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    I too violently object to ill people being forced to pay care fees and in fact its unlawful

    see www.************

    However even more iniquitous is say you sell their house for £300,000 ( 2 bed modest property in the South ) and invest that at 5% the return would be £15,ooo

    However the ill person would have to pay 22% tax on that and in fact possibly even hit the 40% tax band if they have a decent pension
    This means they are paying care home fees on double taxed income

    So add on paying over the odds as a self funder in order to subsidise all those whose fees are payed for by Social services you have a triple rip off

    All of which is unlawful and there are 3000 cases claiming refiund of nursing home fees currently going thru the court system
     
  13. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438
    My personal bugbear is the assumption that you can earn £1 per week per £250 on savings (that's the sliding scale). That's a presumed interest rate of 20% per annum!
     
  14. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    I agree theres no where you could get 20% interest on £250 or even £250,000 for that matter
    The whole thing is a mammouth con trick by Blair and Co
     
  15. chip

    chip Registered User

    Jul 19, 2005
    400
    Scotland
    Thanks for the site info i have printed it out as supposed to have the SW coming today and will leave it out where she can see it. I also went to see the MSP last night the Social Services here are in a bad way have no funds so carers are being hit hard.
     
  16. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    Yup ..........ill people are the responsibility of the NHS

    Be very very sure you read that entire site

    On no account agree to anything or sign anything

    I trust you have a registered EPA because thats vital ............As an attorney you can refuse point blank to any means testing ........claim Data Protection .......as an attorney you are bound by Data Protection

    If they try to get the ill person to sign when you have an EPA thats illegal too
     
  17. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438
    Helena do you have a reference for that? I mean, I know it's logical, but an EPA covers ONLY financial matters, but perhaps you're talking about financial issues? (Chip's situation may be different - she's in Scotland)

    Jennifer
     
  18. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    If Chips in Scotland theres way less of a problem

    All Dementia sufferers there get £250 a week towards care home costs
    If only England got that ........and to think its English taxes that are used to support Scotland !!!
    Chip needs to contact Alzheimers Scotland for full advice ......they have a freephone helpline

    If you hold a Registered EPA its my understanding that a dementia patient cannot sign anything ...........their condition alone means " they are not of sound mind " so aside from even having an EPA i think you will find a court would throw out any claim based on a dementia patients signature
     
  19. jasperty

    jasperty Registered User

    Jul 24, 2006
    19
    West Midlands
    Funding etc

    Sorry to hear about your mom. You can go on to the age concern web site nad print out all sorts of information on funding etc. Local authority charging procedures for care home fact sheet 10 and continuing NHS health care NHS funded registered nursing care and intermediate care fact sheet 20. Takes some reading but very useful.

    You do need to get your mom a social worker, ring the local office and explain the situation and tell them you need her assessed. Have just been through this myself. Also, there is a very good site for searching for a home Commission of Social Care Inspection reports, for this do a general search for care home reports and you can get a list in your area and go throught the reports, helps alot with choosing a good home.

    Best of luck



    Pat
     
  20. chip

    chip Registered User

    Jul 19, 2005
    400
    Scotland
    Yes i have the POA and i am being made to sign everything i didnt sign one form for the ILF and got a phone call from SW to say it hasnt been filled in right. I am given no option but to sign or we get nothing and yes get so much but have also to pay towards it. I am also being stopped from doing what i love to do they will not listen to me. OH surprise surprise SW didnt turn up and it was for the forms that she said was urgent for him to go into respite ON MONDAY for a trial. I have phoned up the nursing home to find out if he is still booked in and told them i am having big SW problems so now i dont no if he is still going or not if SW are paying or if i have to find the money and pay for it. I've to phone them back tomorrow.



    If only people could do their jobs right things would be much easier for us carers
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.