Another Care Home Fees Thread

[ossettbob]

My SIL was admitted into hospital in July 2016 with broken elbow. Whilst in hospital they found she had dementia and was violent. Social Services finally found her a nursing home which would take her that November. The nursing home sent invoices for £130.70 per week to my wife. No contract had been signed. My wife contacted SS & they said the amount was her sister`s contribution. The lady at the NH told my wife that she would soon have to possibly pay about £900.00 per week.On 19 August my wife received a contract from the NH with fees of £130.70 resident`s contribution, £375.00 from Council, & £155.05 FNC totalling ££661.05 effective from 19 September. She assumed that the council were part funding.
She then had another contract sent on 22 September with fees of £867.01 residents contribution, £155.05 FNC , totaling £1022.55. She rang NH & was told that the council were not contributing and had never contributed. Tried to contact the guy at SS who had dealt with her case but he was not available & never returned call. She then received a bill for the difference dating back to November 2016 amounting to about £32000.00 which she paid. I wanted my wife to go see our solicitor as the first contract was to commence on 19 September 2017 & if any changes were made they had to give 28 days notice in writing but she didn`t want any more hassle as her brother had been battling cancer for a long time & was still having problems.
I wondered if the amount being paid is high for Yorkshire as it seems extremely high to me after a lot of research. Also, I thought that the FNC amount would be deducted from the resident`s contribution, not added to it !. By the way, the NH have just sent letter giving 2018 fees of £1077.54, about a 5.4% increase.
Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

 

[marionq]

This all sounds very unclear. There should be a contract of some kind after a financial assessment has been done into the assets of the SIL. No other funds are relevant. What the husband has should not be taken into account. If he is still in their home then the funds from the joint ownership of the home are not relevant.

I take it that your wife holds the POA and has taken on the responsibility of meeting bills from the assets of the SIL?

 

[ossettbob]

A financial assessment was not done & neither my wife or her brother have ever signed a contract with the NH until the last one was received. They knew she had her own house. She has no husband and the sale of the house is being completed on Wednesday. Mind you, that won`t last long with those fees !. Luckily, she had savings to cover the outstanding amount. And, yes, my wife has POA. I was mainly enquiring about level of fees for this area.
My wife is also concerned about another CHC assessment being done on 7 December, the last one being April. She thinks they are doing another one now so they can remove the FNC amount as her sister is no longer violent. She now can`t walk & has to be hoisted, can`t dress, can`t wash, can`t eat or drink without assistance & is on soft diet but still might not qualify for FNC. We really don`t need this as I am 73 & wife is 68. It has taken over our lives since July last year & caused a lot of stress.

 

[Pete R]

I can't say I have ever heard of FNC being withdrawn. I would imagine the NH would not want that to happen either as without it would mean your SiL would not need to be there.

FNC is not always deducted from the NH fees, some do some do not.

The cost of the NH is not unusual here in the midlands.

Have you thought about moving her to somewhere cheaper? If she lives long enough to have spent all her money it is very doubtful that the LA will fund anywhere near that amount, unless it is the only place that can meet her needs, and will insist on a move anyway unless someone else is willing to pay a Top Up.

 

[ossettbob]

I can't say I have ever heard of FNC being withdrawn. I would imagine the NH would not want that to happen either as without it would mean your SiL would not need to be there.

FNC is not always deducted from the NH fees, some do some do not.

The cost of the NH is not unusual here in the midlands.

Have you thought about moving her to somewhere cheaper? If she lives long enough to have spent all her money it is very doubtful that the LA will fund anywhere near that amount, unless it is the only place that can meet her needs, and will insist on a move anyway unless someone else is willing to pay a Top Up.

Thanks for that. My wife said that no way is she looking for another home & when the money has gone, it`s gone. Also, when that happens, if they ask for a top-up, they can take a running jump (or words to that effect !)

 

[Saffie]

No, that amount is certainly no excessive for nursing homes in the south either. The FNC was always already deducted when any quote of fees was given to me. They are deducted from the whole amount charged rather than from the resident’s contribution hence the breakdown of fees you were given.
I think the fact that a nursing home is considered essential, rather than just a care home, means that the FNC is automatic though someone might correct me on that.

 

[ossettbob]

No, that amount is certainly no excessive for nursing homes in the south either. The FNC was always already deducted when any quote of fees was given to me. They are deducted from the whole amount charged rather than from the resident’s contribution hence the breakdown of fees you were given.
I think the fact that a nursing home is considered essential, rather than just a care home, means that the FNC is automatic though someone might correct me on that.

When the CHC assessment was done in April, they said that FNC was being awarded because of her violence and, as she had to have a tablet administered by a nurse, she qualified. She is no longer being given those tablets so will not, I think, be assessed as severe for that condition. Don`t know about the other conditions. Have spent hours reading the check list & still no wiser.

 

[Louise7]

My understanding is that to qualify for FNC the following need to apply:

• you live in a care home registered to provide nursing care, and

• you don’t qualify for NHS continuing healthcare but have been assessed as needing care from a registered nurse

I understand that FNC is reviewed after the first 3 months (my Mum has just been reviewed) and continuing eligibility depends on whether the two points above still apply. Presumably if a condition improves and care from a registered nurse is no longer necessary the FNC is withdrawn?

 

[Beate]

I don't think FNC is as hard to get as CHC. Both the SW and the hospital ward were in agreement that OH should go into a nursing home even before they filled in the checklist, and he wasn't violent at all, but he basically needed everything done for him, including being hoisted by two people. He couldn't have gone to a NH without FNC being awarded, yet that only seemed a formality. So I wouldn't worry too much on that score.

I can't say too much about the other funding issue but there should definitely have been a financial assessment, and they should have entered into a Deferred Payment Agreement with your wife until the house was sold. Your wife should have never been in a position where she had to dip into her own savings, that's crazy!

 

[ossettbob]

I don't think FNC is as hard to get as CHC. Both the SW and the hospital ward were in agreement that OH should go into a nursing home even before they filled in the checklist, and he wasn't violent at all, but he basically needed everything done for him, including being hoisted by two people. He couldn't have gone to a NH without FNC being awarded, yet that only seemed a formality. So I wouldn't worry too much on that score.

I can't say too much about the other funding issue but there should definitely have been a financial assessment, and they should have entered into a Deferred Payment Agreement with your wife until the house was sold. Your wife should have never been in a position where she had to dip into her own savings, that's crazy!

Sorry if I didn`t explain myself clearly. My SIL had savings which covered the outstanding amount. There is no way we would have used our savings.

 

[Shedrech]

hi @ossettbob
I'm not too far from your area (I am assuming the ossett is relevant) and when looking for dad's care home, not nursing, over 2 years ago at least one was then asking for £750 a week - so though a lot of money, the fees you mention don't seem out of kilter
last year the increase in dad's fees was 7% - so the increase is in line too

 

[malengwa]

Mum is paying 850 until she gets FNC then it will drop to 700. Midlands, and about mid range in the area.

 

[ossettbob]

Mum is paying 850 until she gets FNC then it will drop to 700. Midlands, and about mid range in the area.

My SIL`s home added the FNC, then deducted it, Started at £867 added FNC, deducted it, back to £867. Sounds like my SIL`s home is top range. Yorkshire are supposed to be amongst the lowest according to tables I have seen.

 

[painter13]

Can a wife be made to pay for husband in a care home

 

[Pete R]

Can a wife be made to pay for husband in a care home

No one can be forced to pay for another's care!

 

[Shedrech]

hi @painter13
no, a wife is not responsible for paying her husband's care home fees

the local Authority should carry out a financial assessment on the husband's sole assests only - those will be:-
his state pension
his private and/or occupational pension
any savings in his name only
half of any savings in joint names
any other assets in his name only
NOT the marital home where the wife still lives
NOT any of the wife's income or savings

if the husband has savings over £23250 he will self-fund his care fees
if below that, the LA will begin to part fund the fees BUT the husband will have to put towards the fees his state pension and half of his private pension (the other half is for the wife), and he will no longer receive Attendance Allowance, keeping only about£24 a week for personal expenses
the LA has to offer the husband a place at a care home which they will fund - if the family want to have a different home, they can choose to pay a top-up to make the difference
but the wife does not HAVE to pay towards her husband's fees
in fact, the LA also need to be sure that the wife is not left with so little that she hasn't enough to live off - it is worth the wife looking into nebefits she may be eligible to apply for
and if she lives alone, there's the 25% single inhabitant discount on Council Tax

if possible the wife needs Power of Attorney over her nusband's finances so she can manage his financial affairs

 

[painter13]

Thank you this has been worrying since my husband went into care home.