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Anger at live in care

CosmicJetson

Registered User
Oct 14, 2014
8
0
Hello, MIL has mid stage mixed dementia which is advancing. Till now we have had a carer for an hour each day to back up our visits and the twice daily phone calls. But we were concerned about going on holiday and spoke at length and many times with her about live in care and after a visit from the agency she readily agreed. The carer arrived a couple of days before we left so we could all get to know each other and the first day went well. Since then MIL has had wild rages and anger at the carer. She hasn't changed her clothes in a week, evening sleeping in them, she goes into the carers room at night and shouts at her. Any offer of help makes her more enraged. She is only abusive to us when we call. She says she doesn't need help as she has a husband and son at school and friends who look after her. Husband is dead, son is my husband and there are no friends. Before we came away we met with the agency and all agreed the carer should just be there to make sure she is safe and leave her alone as much as possible. I am at the very end of my tether, husband is ready to disown her completely. She is becoming a danger to herself, putting the electric kettle on the hob, melting plastic packaging in the oven, leaving food around the house, won't use the shower or washing machine, can't take her medication alone etc etc. She is so rude and aggressive and we really don't know what to do. I am almost done completely. Thank you for listening.
 

Bod

Registered User
Aug 30, 2013
1,584
0
Bluntly, you are now looking at a Care Home place for her.
She will not agree to one at any cost, but for her safety it must be done.
It might be worth trying to increase the Care package from 1 visit to 3-4 a day whilst reducing your input, and arranging a Home.
Also there may be a personality clash, between her and the Live in Carer. But this does not explain the dangers created by the kettle, oven etc.

Bod
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
18,897
0
South coast
I agree with bod. She is now at risk and needs someone with her 24/7. You have tried a live-in carer and know that it wont work, so the only other option is a care home.
She will (like my mum) fight tooth and nail against going, but eventually there will be a crisis. Mum ended up in hospital and moved from there to a care home.
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
2,026
0
65
London
I agree with @Bod and @canary. When people start doing things that create a serious risk, for example of setting the house ablaze, then they cannot continue to live alone.
 

MaNaAk

Registered User
Jun 19, 2016
8,034
0
Essex
You also have to think of your own health so now's the time to look at homes. Tell them what she's like on a bad day and if you visit a home make an unannounced visit and so that you can see how they interact with other residents.

MaNaAk
 

Rosettastone57

Registered User
Oct 27, 2016
1,748
0
There comes a point where the person with dementia's needs become so great that they outweigh what they or family members want to happen . You have now reached that point. It's a care home with 24 /7 supervision from a whole team looking after her.
 

CosmicJetson

Registered User
Oct 14, 2014
8
0
Thank you everyone for your kind responses. You all say what we already know really, and we are now weighing up the long term options - we can't go on as we are.

We had the most fantastic holiday, however we spent a lot more time refereeing between carer and mother-in-law than we would have liked. It was not a success and not something we will be repeating any time soon. MIL was truly horrible, nasty, aggressive and rude to the carer for most of the time she was there. She didn't change her clothes AT ALL in the two weeks we were away - including sleeping in them. She would go into the carer's room at night shouting at her to get out and shout at us that she didn't need any help when we phoned. She wouldn't accept any help with anything apart from the housework and shouted at her if she tried - on the last day MIL went out for a walk by herself as she didn't want to be seen in the street with her so the carer followed behind resorting to ducking down behind cars and in bushes to keep an eye on her! On the other hand the carer was, in my opinion, the wrong fit and did not have the experience to deal with someone at that state of dementia (impossible at times though it is) so we still got a lot of texts and calls asking what to do or reporting how awful MIL was being. One day we had a message to say the electric had gone off (we were sat in the garden of a castle in Germany having lunch). So I called her to try to sort it out and when she couldn't I texted the neighbours to ask if they had problems but didn't get a response so we called an old friend who is an electrician who went straight round there. When we visited MIL on return I found a card from Southern Electric in the carer's room giving notice that they were working on the electrics that day and there would be outages!! Every day there was something.

Things have settled a little now we have reverted to her regular daily visits while we work on a plan going forward. Once again I would like to thank everyone here for their support and advice, most of all I don't feel we are alone.
 

try again

Registered User
Jun 21, 2018
513
0
Disable the cooker and get more help in
Have you involved social services to get an assessment?
My mum has 4 visits a day. First to get her showered , breakfast and meds, second for a light lunch, third at tea time for a microwave meal, fourth for meds and snack. Tea and pad checks at all visits
She has adapted well to the routine on the whole , initially agreeing to try for 6 weeks with the social worker. Clothes are changed and washed each day
She is adamant she does not want to go in a home and until assessed without capacity to decide for herself we all just plod on as normal
Luckily the bad temper on the whole has gone, though she can have her moments still. When she starts on me, I just leave. The carers are better at calming her down
 

Jaded'n'faded

Registered User
Jan 23, 2019
3,437
0
High Peak
I don't know your mum so I apologise if I'm speaking out of turn, but she seems a feisty lady! I wonder if it's time to stand up to her more and 'tell it like it is'?

I had to move mum to a care home after a fall/hospital stay so she had no choice but she was absolutely horrible to the carers. She refused to let anyone in her room and would shout and scream at any carer who dared to enter - 'Get out of my house you ***** *****!' I feared she would be asked to leave so I'm afraid I resorted to being mean and bullying. (Like mother, like daughter??) I told her that if she didn't calm down and co-operate, things would be taken out of my hands and she would be moved to a Secure Unit (she had a good idea what that was) where she would not be allowed to walk around as she pleased and she'd be MADE to co-operate... She hated the care home, kept trying to escape and caused all sorts of havoc at night, wandering round, going in rooms, banging on doors and worse. Of course, she believed there was nothing wrong with her and didn't need any help.

Yes, it was mean and unkind, but I'd tried being reasonable, gentle persuasion, etc, and got nowhere. I also lied and told her that unless she showed she could behave in a reasonable manner, there was no chance of her ever going home. (I'd already told her the doctors had moved her to the care home, not me, and I could do nothing about it!) Of course, there was no chance she could go home anyway, but she didn't know that, and at that point, that was what she wanted.

It worked. Not immediately, but I continued to remind her what would happen if she couldn't be civil with people who were trying to help her and she gradually settled down. I'm afraid she was still pretty horrible to the staff - I was ashamed of her.

Obviously this method won't work for everyone and you know your mum best! But I do think you've got to let her know that her behaviour towards the carer is totally unacceptable and what will happen (i.e. in your mum's case, a move to a care home) if she does not co-operate with the care you've put in place.
 

update2020

Registered User
Jan 2, 2020
275
0
Hello, MIL has mid stage mixed dementia which is advancing. Till now we have had a carer for an hour each day to back up our visits and the twice daily phone calls. But we were concerned about going on holiday and spoke at length and many times with her about live in care and after a visit from the agency she readily agreed. The carer arrived a couple of days before we left so we could all get to know each other and the first day went well. Since then MIL has had wild rages and anger at the carer. She hasn't changed her clothes in a week, evening sleeping in them, she goes into the carers room at night and shouts at her. Any offer of help makes her more enraged. She is only abusive to us when we call. She says she doesn't need help as she has a husband and son at school and friends who look after her. Husband is dead, son is my husband and there are no friends. Before we came away we met with the agency and all agreed the carer should just be there to make sure she is safe and leave her alone as much as possible. I am at the very end of my tether, husband is ready to disown her completely. She is becoming a danger to herself, putting the electric kettle on the hob, melting plastic packaging in the oven, leaving food around the house, won't use the shower or washing machine, can't take her medication alone etc etc. She is so rude and aggressive and we really don't know what to do. I am almost done completely. Thank you for listening.
Just to add that this angry and invasive behaviour is pretty common as dementia advances. It is the illness and you cannot reason with it. This is the point when many live in carers (such as wives and husbands) reach the end of the line and start looking for an EMI care home. It is not your MIL’s fault. She is frightened and quite possibly delusional.
 

CosmicJetson

Registered User
Oct 14, 2014
8
0
I don't know your mum so I apologise if I'm speaking out of turn, but she seems a feisty lady! I wonder if it's time to stand up to her more and 'tell it like it is'?

I had to move mum to a care home after a fall/hospital stay so she had no choice but she was absolutely horrible to the carers. She refused to let anyone in her room and would shout and scream at any carer who dared to enter - 'Get out of my house you ***** *****!' I feared she would be asked to leave so I'm afraid I resorted to being mean and bullying. (Like mother, like daughter??) I told her that if she didn't calm down and co-operate, things would be taken out of my hands and she would be moved to a Secure Unit (she had a good idea what that was) where she would not be allowed to walk around as she pleased and she'd be MADE to co-operate... She hated the care home, kept trying to escape and caused all sorts of havoc at night, wandering round, going in rooms, banging on doors and worse. Of course, she believed there was nothing wrong with her and didn't need any help.

Yes, it was mean and unkind, but I'd tried being reasonable, gentle persuasion, etc, and got nowhere. I also lied and told her that unless she showed she could behave in a reasonable manner, there was no chance of her ever going home. (I'd already told her the doctors had moved her to the care home, not me, and I could do nothing about it!) Of course, there was no chance she could go home anyway, but she didn't know that, and at that point, that was what she wanted.

It worked. Not immediately, but I continued to remind her what would happen if she couldn't be civil with people who were trying to help her and she gradually settled down. I'm afraid she was still pretty horrible to the staff - I was ashamed of her.

Obviously this method won't work for everyone and you know your mum best! But I do think you've got to let her know that her behaviour towards the carer is totally unacceptable and what will happen (i.e. in your mum's case, a move to a care home) if she does not co-operate with the care you've put in place.
Thank you so much and you certainly are not speaking out of turn. You sum it up perfectly. She has never been the easiest of people to deal with and certainly not a loving or loveable person. Husband is her only son and my main concern so I keep going for him, otherwise I wouldn't care if I never saw her again (my turn to apologise for being frank!!). We have talked to her time and again and touched on the fact that we are running out of options that allow her to stay at home but we all know how hard that is when they are convinced there is nothing wrong. Her doctor has genuinely said he thinks she should be in a care home so will certainly keep that in mind.

Thank you again.
 

CosmicJetson

Registered User
Oct 14, 2014
8
0
Disable the cooker and get more help in
Have you involved social services to get an assessment?
My mum has 4 visits a day. First to get her showered , breakfast and meds, second for a light lunch, third at tea time for a microwave meal, fourth for meds and snack. Tea and pad checks at all visits
She has adapted well to the routine on the whole , initially agreeing to try for 6 weeks with the social worker. Clothes are changed and washed each day
She is adamant she does not want to go in a home and until assessed without capacity to decide for herself we all just plod on as normal
Luckily the bad temper on the whole has gone, though she can have her moments still. When she starts on me, I just leave. The carers are better at calming her down
Thank you so much for your reply. I'm afraid she will not accept any help to be showered or dressed. Meds we have to talk her through twice a day on the phone to make sure she take them. She has one carer visit a day at present who make sure she has something to eat and leaves her a snack for teatime, take her for a walk if the weather is good or sit in the garden for a chat which she enjoys. We are going to increase the number of visits but I know they will be considered an intrusion and people there telling her what to do when she doesn't need help. It is all a challenge to her independence and she will not accept any help with anything. She was keen on the live-in care idea to begin with, helping prepare the spare room, but when it came to it we had two weeks of total hostility.
Thanks again, I think we all plod on!
 

Rosettastone57

Registered User
Oct 27, 2016
1,748
0
My mother in law was like this. As far as she was concerned she was doing just fine ,the reality was she could do little for herself. She was self funding and we had lasting power of attorney for finances and health. She was on her own and my husband arranged carers whether she liked it or not. If you wait for a person with dementia to agree with you or see your point of view, you will wait forever. My mother in law refused personal care and her hair wasn't washed for 3 years.

My husband recognised she should go into care but wasn't prepared to dupe her so we waited for a crisis . She refused point blank to go into care and wouldn't even leave her own home not even for a family visit . Eventually she became ill and went into hospital . From there we organised a care home and she never went back to her own home.
 

Bod

Registered User
Aug 30, 2013
1,584
0
Our old neighbour had permanent live-in care, arranged by an agency, on a 4 week basis.
Some Carers were liked, some not, others were good, but some were not, these had to be changed quickly.
It's possible that the Carer IS the problem, a good agency should be able to change one at short notice (24-48 hours)

Bod
 

Savannah

Registered User
Nov 25, 2018
49
0
Hello, MIL has mid stage mixed dementia which is advancing. Till now we have had a carer for an hour each day to back up our visits and the twice daily phone calls. But we were concerned about going on holiday and spoke at length and many times with her about live in care and after a visit from the agency she readily agreed. The carer arrived a couple of days before we left so we could all get to know each other and the first day went well. Since then MIL has had wild rages and anger at the carer. She hasn't changed her clothes in a week, evening sleeping in them, she goes into the carers room at night and shouts at her. Any offer of help makes her more enraged. She is only abusive to us when we call. She says she doesn't need help as she has a husband and son at school and friends who look after her. Husband is dead, son is my husband and there are no friends. Before we came away we met with the agency and all agreed the carer should just be there to make sure she is safe and leave her alone as much as possible. I am at the very end of my tether, husband is ready to disown her completely. She is becoming a danger to herself, putting the electric kettle on the hob, melting plastic packaging in the oven, leaving food around the house, won't use the shower or washing machine, can't take her medication alone etc etc. She is so rude and aggressive and we really don't know what to do. I am almost done completely. Thank you for listening.
Wondering whether CMHT are involved in your MIL's care? Unfortunately it seems that unless you request it, it doesn't happen automatically. The agitation that your MIL is experiencing won't change with a change of location and will need to be addressed sooner or later. There is a very caution approach to medication for anxiety via the professionals yet the reality is that very small doses of some medications can result in remarkable differences to someone's behaviours. I so wish Mum's GP had referred to CMHT (only came about as someone on here suggested it) and there were immediate positive results and Mum became content and happy again on just 1/16th of the maximum daily dose of an anti-psychotic.
 

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