aggressive resident punched my dad

Bfam

Registered User
Jun 24, 2017
4
I lost my mum in January who had done everything for my dad with dementia, we were able to get him into a good care home very near us. There is a resident (council funded) who has aggressive out bursts, yesterday he was bothering a lady and my dad tried to help and got punched in the face. Dad has forgotten (benefit of dementia??) and doesn't seem to be physically injured but is unsettled. The care home have had to get in 1-1 care for the gentleman, probably at a significant cost to the home (a charity/not for profit home).

The care home have been trying for several months to get the council to move this gentleman into a more suitable place as this has happened many times before. The staff are mortified though there is nothing they could have done. I am really angry with the council, even more so as you can be sure we pay more for my Dad (£1100pw!) than the council do.

Just wanted to offload but any advice welcome
 

marionq

Registered User
Apr 24, 2013
6,005
Scotland
That is what I am afraid of when my husband goes into respite. It hasn't happened yet but PWD are so vulnerable. My husband wouldn't say boo to a goose, he is naturally even tempered but fairly determined.

Could you also write to social services about having this man moved to a different care home?
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
2,944
West Hertfordshire
Its very hard, who knows where our loved ones will end up on this journey. I guess the other resident also has dementia- its very hard to understand when our loved ones are on the receiving end, and one day may end up the aggressive one
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
11,828
London
Places for aggressive people with dementia are rare as not many homes take them so it's not necessarily the council's fault, and why does it matter anyway how he is funded? It won't have any bearing on finding him another place. I know it's not a nice situation but he can't help it either. What if it was your Dad, and you the relative desperately trying to find him a home that is equipped to care for him? At least the current home has put measures into place.
 
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Lavender45

Registered User
Jun 7, 2015
1,598
Liverpool
Beate is right, it's very difficult to find a care home which will take people who have violent behaviour.

My mum was sectioned due to her violence. I looked at more than 20 homes and all but 2 said no. Even a home which classified itself as having residents with challenging behaviour turned us down. It's very hard to find a placement in these circumstances. It's most likely just as difficult for the local authority to find somewhere. The placements just don't readily exist in many areas.

It's really horrible when it's your family member who has been attacked and I'm not looking to down play that at all, but a 1 to 1 has been put in place, hopefully this will prevent further incidents. I can understand how you feel about the cost, but as I've said placements for PWD who have challenging behaviour are like hen's teeth, at least this way the chances of further incidents should be minimised.

As the person who's relative is the one who attacks I can only say that I have been mortified by some of what mum has done. It is awful knowing that she can be a danger to others.
 

ChristinaG

Registered User
Feb 21, 2017
92
While it is a sad and worrying situation on both sides i have a lot of sympathy for Bfam as it is simply not right that our loved ones are put in danger. And i am afraid that the council do take cost into consideration when looking for bew homes so it is relevant in this case that the person is not self funded for that reason alone.
 

Bfam

Registered User
Jun 24, 2017
4
It matters that he is council funded because it’s the councils responsibility to put him in a home that can look after him properly. He is a lovely man but does lash out unpredictably, he has hurt other residents and staff. I know it is not his fault, it’s this horrid disease.
 

Canadian Joanne

Volunteer Moderator
Apr 8, 2005
16,232
65
Toronto, Canada
In our case, it was my mother who was violent. This came on later in her illness when she had been in the nursing home for at least a year. She was sectioned twice from the nursing home to hospital. Then we had to try and find a drug combination which would a) keep her reasonably calm and b) not stupefy her. This was quite a balancing act. We would find something that would work for 6 or 10 months then have to tweak the drugs again. Eventually, Mum stopped being so horrible because the progress of the disease.

I can't tell you how devastating it was to me to have my very proper, polite mother being that way. It was like she was possessed.

Regarding the violent resident, I know you can't say anything but they really should think of tweaking his medications for his aggression, if he's on any. If he's not, meds should be considered. They do need to be monitored but medications can be a good thing.
 

love.dad.but..

Registered User
Jan 16, 2014
4,468
Kent
Dad had his own challenging behaviour which presented problems. He wasn't physically aggressive but would push carers and me to try to get away if personal care was tried or waved his stick or if he was frightened although never hit anyone. There were 2 residents a male and female at his NH who could lash out and dad was on the receiving end as well as other residents while things were tried over time to calm them. The male was more predictable and you could see him getting ready to blow so a little easier to deal with the lady often would explode from nowhere without warning. I had so much sympathy for these two lovely residents and their lovely daughters who I got to know well. I always felt there but for the grace of god etc...could have been dad...it is such a lottery how this illness takes a pwd. The staff at his privately owned NH kept good watch on both of them plus they had most of the time 1to1 although risk cannot be eliminated all the time. However after a couple of months of tweaking medication...using well proven strategies...and the home and staff trying everything they possibly could...at different times one resident/family was given with 28 day notice and the L.A. and mental health team found specialist hospital annexe place. The other resident after a serious safeguarding incident was moved in 24 hours.The NH is an experienced dementia home but even so they could not provide the better staff ratio and expertise these two residents needed and deserved. It is a sad situation all round and I am still in touch with the lady's daughter who said the move was the best thing to happen for her mum who is much more settled now and in the right place to meet her needs. As others have said this is all dependent on places becoming available if it has reached that stage but I would imagine as happened with the resident who was moved quickly a dementia care home has the right to do that If there is serious risk to residents or staff.
 

DeMartin

Registered User
Jul 4, 2017
711
Kent
A friend’s mother was assaulted several times in a CH. I saw the pictures of her face, a&e each time. If it had not been a PWD the perpetrator would have been imprisoned. My friend eventually had to demand the police were informed, and the aggressor was finally moved to a more appropriate care setting.
 

jaymor

Volunteer Moderator
Jul 14, 2006
12,659
England
A friend’s mother was assaulted several times in a CH. I saw the pictures of her face, a&e each time. If it had not been a PWD the perpetrator would have been imprisoned. My friend eventually had to demand the police were informed, and the aggressor was finally moved to a more appropriate care setting.
I see this in reverse.

My daughter works in a nursing home that specialises in challenging behaviour. On a daily basis she is punched, spat on, kicked, bitten, has excrement smeared over her and takes a great deal of verbal abuse. Outside the care home each and every incident would be a court case. She too has found herself in a&e several times for stitches. Black eyes are a weekly enhancement for her.

She accepts it all, she chooses to work with those who have to live with dementia,
 

istherelight?

Registered User
Feb 15, 2017
117
It's so difficult when aggression rears its head. My Mum has been pushed over by a resident in her care home, assaulted in bed during the night and found on the floor with another resident. She is afraid of one resident a.
 

istherelight?

Registered User
Feb 15, 2017
117
She is afraid of of one resident.
The problem is that, while Mum is not aggressive, she is unable to read any signals. So the resident who knocked her over is a little lady who is very far advanced down the dementia route and becomes agitated if someone blocks her path. Mum was simply in her way. The "on the floor" incident had a similar cause. The assault while she was in bed was more worrying but I don't see how this can be completely prevented when all doors are left open. The CH staff are very good but they can't watch all residents 24/7.
I am sorry for those who are aggressive (whatever the trigger) but a lot sorrier for my Mum who is quite frightened of some of the residents. I would be too if I awoke to a slap round the face!
 

mancmum

Registered User
Feb 6, 2012
399
My father was involved in one of these incidents when the woman who thought she worked at the home began swearing at staff. When he told her to moderate her language she spat at him and then he threw water over her and s quared up to her. Probably both really nice people affected by the disease. However, it was reported to social services as a safeguarding incident. Son who worked in social care said this should happen and it would either be viewed as a one off with some degree of mitigation but if it happened regularly then it represented a pattern of behaviour which should be recognised and dealt with in some way - extra supervision, separating people who triggered each other.
 

Hazara8

Registered User
Apr 6, 2015
374
Aggressive behaviour and violence can often 'come out of the blue'. A slightly built and rather sweet little lady would sometimes suddenly lash out with a fist and catch you one, with a smile still on her face. This might come about simply due to one having touched her arm. Seconds later and all is calm again. Care Staff strive to alleviate problems by keeping a watchful eye on 'triggers' and also paying close attention to body language (their own). Dementia has a great deal to answer for, in as much as it takes away that normal processing which we have when unsettled (capacity) and leaves the one afflicted with only a physical expression of a feeling - a fist, a bite, a shove and so on. Of course there might well be other underlying causes of such behaviour. Other residents must be considered and protected of course and there comes a time when people are 'moved on', perhaps to nursing. Care Staff in these environments will be subject to all manner of 'abuse' and are trained accordingly to meet such behaviour. As to medications, unlike perhaps in the past, there seems to be a preference to use them as a last resort. As some antipsychotics can exacerbate deterioration.
 

Ann Mac

Registered User
Oct 17, 2013
3,693
The horrible decision was made that Mil needed residential care due to her increasingly aggressive behaviour. At the time, she was in hospital, under a section 3, so her care would be paid for under 117 funding. The consultant stated that she must go to an EMI Nursing home, because of her complex behavioural needs. So she wasn't self funding, but even so, it was down to us to find a suitable home that would accept her. We were given a list of about 7 or 8 suitable EMI nursing homes that we could try, with no guarantee that all/any of them would accept someone with Mil's behaviour, by the hospital. That was the extent of the help we were given. There was one home about 5 miles away, all the others were anything from 20 to over 100 miles away. We were incredibly lucky to get a place for her in the nearest home to us. I was told that EMI Nursing homes , that will accept Mil's level of challenging behaviour, are scarcer than hens teeth, simply because most (if not all) are private, and providing the care needed at that level is so expensive as to be 'not cost effective'. It is possiby the case that the relatives of the aggressive person, or the local authority are faced with a similar situation. That doesn't help your Dad, I know - but it might explain why its taking so long to find an alternative place for the aggressive gentleman.

I'll add that even though this is a specialist home, there is a chance that they will have to decide that Mil can't stay there either. The aggression has worsened, and there have been many incidents where Mil has gone for other residents. The staff have put stratagies into place, to prevent this happening - basically that translates as staff putting themselves in the firing line. Several have been scratched, slapped, punched or had objects thrown at them over the last few weeks, 3 have sustained dislocated fingers (Mil has a trick of grabbing at their hands and twisting :( ) and one has had a broken wrist. If she is able at any stage, to 'get passed' the staff and injure another resident, it may be that the home will have to say they can't have her there, for the safety of others. That leaves her in some sort of secure hospital ward for whats left of her life. I can't put into words how bad I feel about her attacking staff and the injuries she has caused - it may be their job, but that doesn't make it acceptable to me - even though I know that none of this behaviour is her fault. The thought of her doing similar damage to a resident is terrifying. The thought of her being in some sort of hospital environment for her remaining years breaks my heart.

Mil, pre-dementia, was never aggressive or nasty. To see a once lovely lady, who was like a Mum to me , change in this way is so heartbreaking. Knowing its not her fault doesnt make a blind bit of difference to the fact that people have been injured, and I can fully understand how the relatives of another resident, should Mil cause that resident injury, would feel, how they would want Mil removed from the home and in their shoes, I would be exactly the same.

Its a horrible, foul illness :(
 

love.dad.but..

Registered User
Jan 16, 2014
4,468
Kent
The horrible decision was made that Mil needed residential care due to her increasingly aggressive behaviour. At the time, she was in hospital, under a section 3, so her care would be paid for under 117 funding. The consultant stated that she must go to an EMI Nursing home, because of her complex behavioural needs. So she wasn't self funding, but even so, it was down to us to find a suitable home that would accept her. We were given a list of about 7 or 8 suitable EMI nursing homes that we could try, with no guarantee that all/any of them would accept someone with Mil's behaviour, by the hospital. That was the extent of the help we were given. There was one home about 5 miles away, all the others were anything from 20 to over 100 miles away. We were incredibly lucky to get a place for her in the nearest home to us. I was told that EMI Nursing homes , that will accept Mil's level of challenging behaviour, are scarcer than hens teeth, simply because most (if not all) are private, and providing the care needed at that level is so expensive as to be 'not cost effective'. It is possiby the case that the relatives of the aggressive person, or the local authority are faced with a similar situation. That doesn't help your Dad, I know - but it might explain why its taking so long to find an alternative place for the aggressive gentleman.

I'll add that even though this is a specialist home, there is a chance that they will have to decide that Mil can't stay there either. The aggression has worsened, and there have been many incidents where Mil has gone for other residents. The staff have put stratagies into place, to prevent this happening - basically that translates as staff putting themselves in the firing line. Several have been scratched, slapped, punched or had objects thrown at them over the last few weeks, 3 have sustained dislocated fingers (Mil has a trick of grabbing at their hands and twisting :( ) and one has had a broken wrist. If she is able at any stage, to 'get passed' the staff and injure another resident, it may be that the home will have to say they can't have her there, for the safety of others. That leaves her in some sort of secure hospital ward for whats left of her life. I can't put into words how bad I feel about her attacking staff and the injuries she has caused - it may be their job, but that doesn't make it acceptable to me - even though I know that none of this behaviour is her fault. The thought of her doing similar damage to a resident is terrifying. The thought of her being in some sort of hospital environment for her remaining years breaks my heart.

Mil, pre-dementia, was never aggressive or nasty. To see a once lovely lady, who was like a Mum to me , change in this way is so heartbreaking. Knowing its not her fault doesnt make a blind bit of difference to the fact that people have been injured, and I can fully understand how the relatives of another resident, should Mil cause that resident injury, would feel, how they would want Mil removed from the home and in their shoes, I would be exactly the same.

Its a horrible, foul illness :(
It is heart breaking to read such posts...for all of Dad's challenges and although it got close to him being given notice from his dementia NH..I got away lightly in comparison to you and many others on the aggression front. Sending you best wishes