Advice sought on EPA vs LPA and attorneys

[Phil612]

Hi,
I'm just in the process of registering an EPA with my Father on behalf of my Mother- held jointly/severally ( her Alzheimers has reached the point where she's no longer capable). I had to gently persuade my father that he could no longer ignore the situation and we had to act. The EP1PG's have been sent and the EP2PG will be sent to the OPG shortly. My father also has an EPA and I'm a named attorney (jointly and severally) with my mother. Clearly my mother is no longer in a position to act as my father's attorney. So some obvious questions have arisen.
1) Am I correct in saying that my mothers inability to act does not negate the legitimacy of my fathers EPA, if I ever have to register his EPA then her incapacity would not automatically block it.
2)In the event of a sole attorney (me) dying or becoming ineligible what typically occurs? my understanding is that a relative can apply to be a deputy from the court of protection, but this can be a lengthy procedure. So is it just good sense to raise LPA's with a second attorney included while my father can still decide for himself.

 

[Jessbow]

You can ( or your father can) nominate a reserve attorney~

M in Law has just done hers. Her daughter will be her attorney, her son ( my husband) the reserve, in case anything happens to his sister.

Didnt think it was the best way to do it, but thats what she did

 

[Phil612]

You can ( or your father can) nominate a reserve attorney~

M in Law has just done hers. Her daughter will be her attorney, her son ( my husband) the reserve, in case anything happens to his sister.

Didnt think it was the best way to do it, but thats what she did

Was it with an existing EPA or an LPA?

 

[Up the Creek]

Hi @Phil612,

Both my parents set up EPAs several years ago and both of them were attorney’s for each other. I was a joint/several attorney for both of them too. My father passed away four years ago and last year I registered my mum’s EPA without any problem.

 

[Phil612]

Hi @Phil612,

Both my parents set up EPAs several years ago and both of them were attorney’s for each other. I was a joint/several attorney for both of them too. My father passed away four years ago and last year I registered my mum’s EPA without any problem.

Hi Up the Creek, thanks for answering it's useful to know that others have and are going through the same process.

Out of interest did you get any pressure from other family members that you were sole attorney. Even though my parents EPA's have been in place years, its only now that one of them is being registered that the question of sole attorney is being pushed by one of my siblings.

 

[Up the Creek]

Hi Up the Creek, thanks for answering it's useful to know that others have and are going through the same process.

Out of interest did you get any pressure from other family members that you were sole attorney. Even though my parents EPA's have been in place years, its only now that one of them is being registered that the question of sole attorney is being pushed by one of my siblings.

When the EPA was set up my sibling lived overseas so it wasn’t deemed useful to have them included as an attorney.

Because the EPA only covers mum’s financial affairs, I got her to sign an LPA for Health & Welfare. I’m the only attorney mentioned on that. I live with my mum and again, it seemed pointless including my sibling as attorney.

If your parents don’t have LPAs in place for Health & Welfare maybe you could suggest your siblings take on attorney roles for this?

 

[nitram]

It's up to your father as donor to decide.

He can either:

• risk loosing capacity, the EPA being registered and you, as sole attorney, predeceasing him meaning that an application for COP deputy will have to be made.

or

• grant a LPA whilst he has capacity with multiple attorneys of his choice acting in a way he decides

 

[Phil612]

When the EPA was set up my sibling lived overseas so it wasn’t deemed useful to have them included as an attorney.

Because the EPA only covers mum’s financial affairs, I got her to sign an LPA for Health & Welfare. I’m the only attorney mentioned on that. I live with my mum and again, it seemed pointless including my sibling as attorney.

If your parents don’t have LPAs in place for Health & Welfare maybe you could suggest your siblings take on attorney roles for this?

thanks, some good suggestions to consider.

 

[Jessbow]

Was it with an existing EPA or an LPA?

Sorry , its was her first one.

Your father can add a reserve to his, if he's deemed to have the capacity to do so.

 

[silkiest]

Hi @Phil612 The biggest difference between LPA and EPA is that with the EPA you have to wait until the person is not capable of managing their own affairs to register it. With LPA it can be registered immediately and you can take on things piecemeal as your dad needs. I have found this "as needed" aspect of LPA extremely useful to support MIL and mum with things they found more difficult whilst maintaining some independence. Mum took the decision to have LPA for finance when she already had EPA because of this.

 

[JudyS]

My mother originally had an EPA with myself and my now ex husband as attorneys. This was replaced with an LPA about eight years ago, naming my sister and I as attorneys able to act jointly or severally and one of my daughters as reserve. This was registered in 2014 and I have been able to use it to help Mum with her financial stuff. Unfortunately she never did one for Health and Welfare and we are trying to get this organised now while she still has some capacity.

 

[Phil612]

Sorry , its was her first one.

Your father can add a reserve to his, if he's deemed to have the capacity to do so.

Hi Jessbow, so if I understand correctly, your saying you did have an EPA and you got a reserve added. if it's possible it would be great but I just didn't think that was possible with EPA's, from what I understood that was one of the changes they introduced when LPA's replaced EPAs in 2007. if you have any links or extra info I would appreciate it.

 

[Phil612]

Hi @Phil612 The biggest difference between LPA and EPA is that with the EPA you have to wait until the person is not capable of managing their own affairs to register it. With LPA it can be registered immediately and you can take on things piecemeal as your dad needs. I have found this "as needed" aspect of LPA extremely useful to support MIL and mum with things they found more difficult whilst maintaining some independence. Mum took the decision to have LPA for finance when she already had EPA because of this.

Hi Silkiest, thanks for the info. I believe the interesting thing about the old EPA though is that it can be used before it is registered in the same "cooperative" manner, e.g. just helping as and when needed but just for financial matters.

 

[nitram]

I believe the interesting thing about the old EPA though is that it can be used before it is registered in the same "cooperative" manner, e.g. just helping as and when needed but just for financial matters.

Correct, it acts as a general power.
In practise I think that several financial institutions on seeing the document may ask for proof of capacity when used.