1. Spamar

    Spamar Registered User

    Oct 5, 2013
    6,971
    Suffolk
    I have a friend with bipolar. He is 99% likely to end up in the near future in a care home. Do the same money rules apply? I assumed they did, but was horrified to learn that his wife had been told that when his money ran out, she should sell the house. After that she must ask her own children as well as her step son for more money.
    I was, needless to say, horrified. Gave advice on don't sign anything, needs before finances, make sure you know the rules because often the LA don't, or they will try it on, and no one is obliged to support anyone else.
    Would somebody give the the link to relevant document please? Then can pass it on.
    Many thanks
     
  2. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    You are quite correct: the same rules apply as they do for dementia and older people (I assume he is younger).

    This is probably the most relevant fact sheet http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=2710

    Mind you, the other place you should probably point her to is Mind www.mind.org.uk. Because if his bi polar is such that it cannot be controlled with medication and he will need a nursing or residential home he might either be sections (if he is sectioned under a section 3 he would be entitled to Section 117 aftercare). Also, I think if this is more likely to make him eligible for NHS CHC since it is so clearly a health issue (yes I know dementia is as well, but...).
     
  3. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,780
    Salford
    It's really difficult to look this one up, everything points you to either older people or Alzheimer's/dementia. I can't see why this isn't covered by the CRAC rules (which I guess we all know about), there is nothing I can see that says they relate exclusively to older people or people with AZ only so I assume they cover people with meantal health issues like bipolar. As Jen suggested the best people to advise would be MIND although to be honest their website is nothing like as sophisticated as this one.
    I'm sure that if what your friend was told about selling the house and all the children contributing is utter rubbish, if it did happen it would be all over the papers lots of people are bipolar some very famous so I can't see it being right.
    It would be interesting if you could get "evidence" of what your friend was told as similar stories have appeared on here and without being paranoid you do have to wonder whether it is just some poorly trained staff or a deliberate attempt to deceive.
    K
     
  4. Spamar

    Spamar Registered User

    Oct 5, 2013
    6,971
    Suffolk
    #4 Spamar, Mar 3, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015
    Many thanks, I will pass that on.
    Kevini, I know the couple concerned, but when people are talking to you, you don't always take everything in. But I no reason to doubt that was said.
    Apparently the formal finance meeting is going to be held shortly and she is taking her brother with her. He is a guy who has worked for some of the biggest firms and grasps things very quickly. He will give as good as he gets!
    No, he is older, 80, I think.
    Thank you very much, both of you to take the time to answer.
     
  5. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,780
    Salford
    Hi Spamar
    I don't doubt it was said either, I'd be interested to know if they'll repeat it when the brother is there so there is a witness. I can't believe any trained professional is so unaware of what the rules are as to say something like that but then again I can't believe they are trying to pull the wool over your friend's eyes and hoping she'll fall for it that seems equally bizarre, I'd be interested to know if they do repeat it in front of her brother.
    K
     
  6. realist1234

    realist1234 Registered User

    Oct 30, 2014
    108
    #6 realist1234, Mar 4, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2015
    If your friend is treated similarly to an elderly person who needs a nursing home, then his wife does not have to sell the marital home to pay for home fees ( it is 'disregarded'). Regarding the need for family to pay towards the fees, this only applies if the home he ultimately lives in charges more than what the local authority would normally pay, and if the LA is making a contribution to the fees because he has less than £23250 in savings (if joint a/c with wife, then his share is taken as 50%). If he has more than this in savings then he is considered to be self-funding and would pay the full cost of care (less the £110/week NHS nursing contribution) until his savings reduce to below the £23250 threshold. For example, if he had £30,000 in savings and the nursing home charged £700 per week, he would be self-funding and would pay the £590/week (£700 less £110 NHS nursing contribution) from a combination of his income (incl some benefits) and his savings. Once his savings reduce from £30k to below £23,250 he would no longer be self-funding, and the local authority would then pay a contribution towards his fees (his income and part of his savings would continue to be used as his contribution). However, if the maximum fees the LA would pay is say £480 per week, in this case there is an extra £110/week (590 - 480) to be found. This is known as the 'top-up' fee and if the LA is contributing to the fees, this top-up must be paid by a 3rd party, eg relative or friend, and not the resident themselves. The only reason a LA would consider paying the top-up fee themselves would be if they could not offer a place in a nursing home that only charged the max they normally pay. I appreciate this probably looks very complicated, but hopefully the example I have given helps (a little!).
     
  7. Wirralson

    Wirralson Account Closed

    May 30, 2012
    661
    I have 2 acquaintances with bipolar, one of whom faces residential care - age 30s, so I have a little knowledge of this. This is incorrect, since your acquaintance is an adult. No adult can be compelled to fund the care of another adult. The working of the rules relatged to husband and wife and property are complicated and depend on whether the property - if owned - is held jointly or in common, and the wife in this case really requires specialist legal advice based on her detailed situation. You/she may wish to repost on this site: http://www.bipolaruk.org.uk/ which will have members with more detailed and relevant information on bipolar disorder.

    However, the relevant guidance is CRAG (Charging for Residential Accommodation Guidance). Link here https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...hment_data/file/301250/CRAG_34_April_2014.pdf The LA has the power to charge for services

    The regulations are the National Assistance (Assessment of Resoruces) Regulations Staututory Instrument (SI) 1992/No2977 - link here: http://legislation.data.gov.uk/uksi/1992/2977/made/data.htm?wrap=true

    The pwoer to charge for services is in Section 22 of the National Assistance Act 1948:
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/11-12/29/section/22

    This looks likes crass maladministration by the LA. Start complaints procedure and if need be go to the Local Government Ombudsman (LGO).

    Hope this helps.

    W.
     
  8. Spamar

    Spamar Registered User

    Oct 5, 2013
    6,971
    Suffolk
    Thanks Wirralson.
    I did say, quite vehemently, about only his money being used! Plus a few other tips gained on here. I will also pass your information on. Another thing has come up, in that he is a retired gp, and apparently there is an organisation that looks after such people! Nice if you can get it!
    The county concerned is renowned for it's cheek! I think it is the end of financial year, none of the councils seem to have any money, so can't/not pay if they can con someone into doing it!
     

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