1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

    Sam, our Knowledge Officer (Legal and Welfare Rights) is our expert on this topic. She will be here to answer your questions on Wednesday 26 June between 3:30 - 4:30 pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

  1. Tixeross

    Tixeross Registered User

    Nov 1, 2007
    10
    Firstly, although I'm a late comer here, I've found these forums very useful over the last few months.

    My father has been approved for fully funded EMI care by the local authority.

    The care home suggested by them, although I have yet to visit, has a very poor report on the csgi website.

    A nurse at our surgery recommended a home where a relative of hers was staying, which I have visited, and ticked all the boxes.

    I know we don't have to accept the 1st home, is there any way I can get the council to place my father in the home of our choice ?
     
  2. elaineo2

    elaineo2 Registered User

    Jul 6, 2007
    945
    leigh lancashire
    Dear Tixieross,If the home your friend has suggested has got "blocked beds",puerly for S/S funded residents then there shouldn't be a problem as long as the home is within the LA area,being out of area can sometimes pose a problem.please keep us posted.love elainex
     
  3. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Hi Tixeross, welcome to TP. I'm glad you've decided to post, I'm sure you'll find lots of support her.

    When you visited the home, did you ask if they have a vacant room? If not, I'd give them a ring in the morning and ask. You may find they have a waiting list, and that might influence your decision.

    If you don't like the home SS have suggested, why not go round a few more and decide which ones you like. Find out if they have rooms.

    SS should be prepared to fund your dad in any EMI unit that has a room available, so do some research of your own, then tell them which one you want.

    Good luck,
     
  4. christine_batch

    christine_batch Registered User

    Jul 31, 2007
    3,388
    Buckinghamshire
    Dear Tixeross,
    Welcome to Talking Point. When my husband had to be placed in a E.M.I. Unit, the research I did myself and the S.W. and Consultant both agreed that if it was the one I wanted for my husband, they agreed. Although it is run like a 5 star hotel he has excellent 24/7 care.
    Your wishes must be considered when you are looking for Care Home for your loved one.
    Best wishes
    Christine
     
  5. Tixeross

    Tixeross Registered User

    Nov 1, 2007
    10
    Thanks for the input.

    At the moment both homes have a vacancy although the place in the recommended one wont last long. I gather the LA suggested one has an arrangement which I presume gives a discount to the LA.

    Ross.
     
  6. nemesisis

    nemesisis Registered User

    May 25, 2006
    100
    my advice is visit all available options but do not be feel you have to take A or B
    speak to age concern first.
    They were a great support to me. they were great and explained to me that (do not be bullied) you have the right to take your time and find a care home suitable for - in your case your father best interests
     
  7. elaineo2

    elaineo2 Registered User

    Jul 6, 2007
    945
    leigh lancashire
    Dear Tixieross,i am "on one" at the moment.My advice is to take your loved one to the home and spend a day there,then go back a few days later.catch them unawares.if there is nothing to hide then they wil let you do your own inspection.Cleanliness,happiness and staff morale are the points that you need to look for.good luck elainex
     
  8. Margaret W

    Margaret W Registered User

    Apr 28, 2007
    3,725
    North Derbyshire
    I still don't know what EMI care is - can someone explain please?

    You mention care homes being "recommended", my SW would said she was not allowed to recommend any, and indeed out of four she suggested, I would not have put my most hated neighbour's dog into it.

    We ended up with no choice at all. Two homes with one room each. Given mum's night wanderings the room in our preferred home was totally unsuitable for her, out of the way, so we had no choice. That said, I am happy with the choice (but see my latest thread Mum is DEFINITELY unhappy). It is a minefield.

    The idea that you can choose your ideal home and the social services will pay for it seems a bit far-fetched. In my area, social services will pay up to £352 a week, and there is no home that charges only that, most are at least £100 a week more, and relatives have to find the difference. And we live in an area that is famous for care homes. Plenty of them.

    Hope you find the right place and it works out well.

    Regards

    Margaret
     
  9. Sandy

    Sandy Registered User

    Mar 23, 2005
    6,847
    Dear Tixeross,

    This issue has come up before where in some cases the local authority will only fund up to £XXX per week. As you supposed, it is quite likely that they have arranged a block booking with certain homes and have received a discount for that.

    There was a thread not too long ago on the issue of what local authorities were responsible for funding:

    http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/TalkingPoint/discuss/showthread.php?t=7300

    I suppose it would be a good idea to see the other home ASAP. When was the CSCI report made by the way? Their web site has reports from the last several years and sometimes a home can undergo a serious turnaround after a poor report.

    Take Care,

    Sandy
     
  10. Tixeross

    Tixeross Registered User

    Nov 1, 2007
    10
    EMI is Elderly Mentally Infirm and is, unless corrected, a care home which specializes in dementia residents.

    The care home was recommended by a nurse at our Dr's, not by the SW.

    I'm going to visit the LA suggested home and see. The last csgi inspection was March 2007.
     
  11. Margaret W

    Margaret W Registered User

    Apr 28, 2007
    3,725
    North Derbyshire
    Hi Tixeross

    I am with the others in that you should visit as many homes as possible. We did have one described to us by the SW as very lively, and I thought "ooh that sounds good", but when we visited it was like death row. Nothing lively at all.

    The Inspection Reports make chilling reading at times, but you've got to read them thoroughly to see where they fall down. The one we chose fell down on decor, quite badly. Bedrooms were shabby, communal rooms were shabby, and this was June 2007. We visited in July and wondered if the Inspector had been to the wrong home! Surely in a month they could not have turned the place around so much?

    We were shown three vacant bedrooms (or was it four?). Two were very small, and one felt rather chilly, the final one was a lovely bright sunny room. All were pleasantly decorated (perhaps a coat of paint needed in a couple of years), but certainly not shabby. Anyway, most of our rellies would probably not notice what is shabby - mum remarked on how nice my dining room was when she came last Christmas, and the wallpaper was peeling off the wall cos the plaster is falling off - and still is!

    We were shown the dining room, a lovely room to eat in, sun streaming in through four large windows, tables beautifully set ready for the next meal, nice carpet, and told "this room is down for decorating shortly" (and is currently being done). The hallway was lovely, a few knocks on the walls where wheelchairs had probably collided with the wall, but that too has been decorated last month.

    What the inspectors DON'T report on are the things that interest me. How often do residents get a bath? Is there a shower? (many homes don't have showers, ours is getting one in November). How are residents who wander at night supervised? What is the security level on the front door? (ours has none, despite mum being a wanderer, but after discussion with everyone we agreed she was not at risk of going out, and that has proved true). What are the arrangements for evacuation in the case of fire or other disaster?

    The reports seem to focus on things that are less important to me (although some, like keeping records, are). Read the reports and use them as background only. A personal visit tells a lot more. One home we visited had very good reports (none have superb, don't expect it), yet despite three visits at different times, we only ever saw 25% of the residents in the communal rooms. Where were the rest? At the home we chose, 90% were visible and all dressed in day clothes. At one, most of the residents were still wearing night clothes in the afternoon. I didn't think that sort of atmosphere was right for my mum.

    Don't accept someone else's report of a home, make your own choice. Her mum might not be like your mum.

    We also added plus points to my mum's home cos they have an activities co-ordinator 5 afternoons a week, and mum has just started to join in, after 3 months of refusing to do so. On Tuesday, they all wrote a couple of paragraphs about themselves, who they were, their families etc. On Wednesday they played Snakes and Ladders and the play Bingo nearly every day. She does chair exercises (wrigling feet, stretching arms), they are now making Christmas cards. For Halloween, they made a skeleton, witches hats and broomsticks and carboard cats.

    None of this goes into the Inspection reports.

    Take care, choose the best you can for yourself and your dad. Good luck and keep us posted.

    Lots of love at this difficult time. Been through it. Might have to go through it again at some time.

    Margaret
     
  12. TinaT

    TinaT Registered User

    Sep 27, 2006
    7,095
    Bolton
    Hello Tixi,

    EMI units have a registered mental health nurse on the premises 24 hours a day and have secure, locked doors at all times. EMI homes have a registered nurse (not necessarily a mental health nurse) and also locked doors at all times. The difference between the two seems to be in the qualifications of the staff.

    EMI units tend, in my area at least, to separate the residents into two distinct sections; one section for residents able to move about and the other for residents who are unable to walk. The EMI units did not seem to have separate rooms in which residents could chose to go. They had one large room where everyone sat and in one home, ate as well. They smelled very strongly of urine. Each of the ones I visited were privately run establishments by well known medical companies. However, I have read other threads which have praised their particular EMI unit as being very good and with everthing their relative would need.

    Of the EMI nursing homes I visited one was run by the local authority and one was privately run. They had less residents than the EMIunits. Both establishments had small rooms in which residents could chose to sit. There was little or no smell of urine.

    You know your loved one better than anyone and know their needs. For me I know that my husband would need space to pace around and little rooms he could visit as he wanted. He doesn't like noise, hence his need to move if he is in a room with a TV or Radio or someone shouting out. Garden areas are also important for my husband, he needs to be able to go outside for a part of the day. All of these things help to keep him calm. Therefore these are some of the things I look for. Your relative may need other priorities than mine.

    The minefield of funding is very hard to negotiate. If your relative has been sectioned, then the authority has a duty to fully fund any after care. But the Consultant will also have a large say in the type of home (EMI or EMI Nursing Home) which your relative would be best placed in.

    Hope this has cleared up some of the confusion about EMI units and EMI nursing homes. xxx TinaT
     
  13. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Tina, John's in an EMI unit attached to a care home. It does have two separate sections, as you say, but residents can move between the two. There are tyhree separate sitting roome, one of them a conservatory, and a lovely enclosed garden. John doesn't like noise either, and won't sit in the lounges, but I often take him into the conservatory

    The rooms open onto a corridor which surrounds the garden, so some residents wander round and round all all day. There's no smell of urine.

    It's run by a company which has homes all over the UK. I'm very impressed with this one, though I can't speak for any others in the chain.
     
  14. 117katie

    117katie Guest

    Just to add to the discussion of EMI units: last week we visited two residential care establishements, both under local authority control, which have EMI units. The one told us that they have absolutely no 24-hour nurse care - mental health or otherwise - and the other told us they are called EMI because they "accept elderly mentally ill people" and when I asked what that meant they said "people with dementia".

    So all I can suggest is that we all should check, check again and then ... check again.

    We have visited 3 residential care places suggested by the local authority: one charges £500 per week; one charges £590 per week; the third charges .... £950 per week!!!! I would love to know how that charge can be justified ... and I wonder whether CSCI ever evaluates the sum of money being charged. Yes, I know that if the local authority has a "block booking" then that charge will reduce, but come on world, why on earth should a self-funding person and/or their relatives have to face up to the negotiating that may have to be involved, just in order to reduce that "charge" to an acceptable amount.

    Sorry to sound somewhat negative about all this, but I prefer to think of it as being realistic, and facing up to the challenges that come our way.

    Take care all of you.
     
  15. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Hi Katie, I think you're being realistic too. There really ought to be some control of the scale of charges.

    One more problem is that people who are self-funding, and have not had the benefit of advice from TP, may not realise that the fees are negotiable, and end up paying way over the odds.
     
  16. Tixeross

    Tixeross Registered User

    Nov 1, 2007
    10
    Thanks very much for all your thoughts. I'm certainly going to visit as many care homes as possible and weigh up the pros and cons.
     
  17. germain

    germain Registered User

    Jul 7, 2007
    342
    Hi Tixeross

    We visited all the EMI homes in our area and read the inspection reports afterwards. Some of the little things the units were marked down on didn't seem very important to us (eg- address of complaints ombudsman not on public view etc) One of the "poshest" and newest was marked poorly on activities - this we did think was important so we downgraded it in our own minds.

    BUT our Mum is now in a home that wasn't EMI registered when we first started looking - so it might be worth ringing around to see if any ordinary residential homes have newly applied . The one we finally chose was only registered last Monday after a new extension was opened !

    Regards & happy hunting
    germain
     
  18. Tixeross

    Tixeross Registered User

    Nov 1, 2007
    10
    I've been to visit a couple of homes reccomended by the LA and they were pretty grim to say the least.

    I was informed by SServices the only way we could place my father outside of these 'block bed units', is if his needs cannot be met by them, and/or on religious grounds, otherwise then we would have to top up the fees. Has anyone got experience of contributing towards the fee to get the care of your choice ?

    Good/bad idea ? Can the top up get out of hand ?

    Thanks, Ross.
     
  19. elaineo2

    elaineo2 Registered User

    Jul 6, 2007
    945
    leigh lancashire
    Dear tixieross,the "top up fee" is a preposterous idea.Why should you pay more?the care will be the same no matter how much you pay!sorry it's another thing that "gets my goat".You may get a few more square yards for your money,or an en suite.Is an en suite any use if someone is at the stage of incontinence,or at the stage whereby they do not recognise a toilet,and need assistance anyway?I'm on a rant now,"block beds " are no different from any other,they just charge more.love elainex.hope i haven't offended anyone
     
  20. Tixeross

    Tixeross Registered User

    Nov 1, 2007
    10
    #20 Tixeross, Nov 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2007
    According to Age Concern / Help the Aged websites, it is the norm that the LA has a limit on the amount of funding they supply. My LA have an arrangement with [Name removed by moderator] group of homes and a quick google reveals that organisation to be in crisis; cutting wages, low staff morale, high staff turnover. The 2 homes of theirs I viewed certainly reflected this. I saw a home that would be perfect for us but the top up fee would be @ £400-£500 per month. With 4 of us contributing it would make it a bit easier.

    [moderator note from Brucie - please refer to guidelines on naming organisations such as care homes http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/talkin...cuments_info.php?categoryID=12&documentID=47]
     

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