Aches and Pains
- Thread starter Tender Face
- Start date
Lots of people say that, you are the parent now and she's the child, but a child doesn't have the power an elderly person has. E.g. she can decide whether she'll attend a hospital appointment, and whom she will let and not let into her home.
Emotional blackmail, yes! especially between siblings, and threatening to go round to the neighbours to complain, though I think she is beginning to run out of people to complain to, after a while they see through her and get bored with it. (I say can't you visit the neighbours just to say hello, instead of complaining or asking for things.)
If my mother were really a child, I could send her to a playgroup, and she'd love that, even if she would only be able to sit and watch the others playing. But she won't go to the day-centres etc. which are the adult equivalent of playgroups, and no-one can make her go.
If she were a child, Social Services would have found a foster-home for her.
Lila
Emotional blackmail, yes! especially between siblings, and threatening to go round to the neighbours to complain, though I think she is beginning to run out of people to complain to, after a while they see through her and get bored with it. (I say can't you visit the neighbours just to say hello, instead of complaining or asking for things.)
If my mother were really a child, I could send her to a playgroup, and she'd love that, even if she would only be able to sit and watch the others playing. But she won't go to the day-centres etc. which are the adult equivalent of playgroups, and no-one can make her go.
If she were a child, Social Services would have found a foster-home for her.
Lila
Margarita said:
And, unlike children, adults have a past, so although they may not remember everything e.g.Bruce said:
- that their own children have grown up,
- that they no longer live with their mother in London,
- what the consequences of a scratch may be,
- a mother's feeling of hugging her own children,
- concerned about getting home because Mum will be worried,
- how frightened they were when they first cut themselves.
I don't see that just because we define behaviour as 'attention-seeking' that we dismiss it.
Nor do I see attention seeking as being confined to children (I can certainly think of several adults I know.....) What is common with whoever exhibits it, is that it is a symptom of an underlying need which needs to be addressed .. it's finding what that need REALLY is and then IF anything can be done about it.
Nor do I see attention seeking as being confined to children (I can certainly think of several adults I know.....) What is common with whoever exhibits it, is that it is a symptom of an underlying need which needs to be addressed .. it's finding what that need REALLY is and then IF anything can be done about it.
Thats okay by me. Too often, attention seeking is thought to be spurious, that's all.
Your definition is fine for me.
This is an interesting thread. My experience with my husband, is the very opposite. My husband has always been a bit of a hypochondriac (nothing major) and, since he retired sixteen years ago, was always at the doctor's. (In fact, on one occasion some years ago, he came back from a visit to his GP, very put out that the doctor had greeted him with, "What now, Mr Y?"!)
In the last eight years (since I stopped work) he had one (genuine) ailment after the other - colds, tummy upsets, a perforated colon (requiring him to wear a colostomy bag for nearly a year) and severe arthritis in both knees, leading to two knee replacements five years ago. We spent years attending two or three health-related appointments nearly every week.
Looking back, I can see the start of the dementia at least seven years ago but I think the signs were masked by his other, physical illnesses. (I don't think four general anaesthetics in two and a half years helped much either.) However, as soon as he had had his second knee replacement and I hoped things might improve it very soon became obvious that there was another problem! And one that outranked everything that had gone before!
The point, finally, of this post is to say that, since being diagnosed with vascular dementia over four years ago, my husband has only seen his GP three or four times, and always at my instigation. He is diabetic, has high blood pressure and a mild heart problem but all these conditions seem to be very well controlled with tablets. He is, on the surface at least, very healthy and rarely if ever complains about anything.
Bets
PS And yes, I am grateful for small mercies.
In the last eight years (since I stopped work) he had one (genuine) ailment after the other - colds, tummy upsets, a perforated colon (requiring him to wear a colostomy bag for nearly a year) and severe arthritis in both knees, leading to two knee replacements five years ago. We spent years attending two or three health-related appointments nearly every week.
Looking back, I can see the start of the dementia at least seven years ago but I think the signs were masked by his other, physical illnesses. (I don't think four general anaesthetics in two and a half years helped much either.) However, as soon as he had had his second knee replacement and I hoped things might improve it very soon became obvious that there was another problem! And one that outranked everything that had gone before!
The point, finally, of this post is to say that, since being diagnosed with vascular dementia over four years ago, my husband has only seen his GP three or four times, and always at my instigation. He is diabetic, has high blood pressure and a mild heart problem but all these conditions seem to be very well controlled with tablets. He is, on the surface at least, very healthy and rarely if ever complains about anything.
Bets
PS And yes, I am grateful for small mercies.
Thank-you Tender face for clearing that up & expressing it that way that was the wave length of thinking I was referring to when referring to my mother child like .
I know my mother is not a child & has had a past ,
Yes so for me to understand my mother how I perceive it how it help me, I compare it to child like behaviour ,so enabling me to cope with any given situation that arises, all people with AD have a mental illness , if not & my mother could make her own choices I would not have been given E POA ? .
An elderly person & an elderly person with AD is to different situation.
An elderly person can be left in there own home & not worry that they will leave the gas on or over boil the eggs & set fire to the house.
A person with AD can be a danger to them self’s & those around, them that is why they can be section under the mental heath act ,if no one is supervising them & left to there own device ,but them is your way of thinking are you saying they have a choice ? To be left alone full time with no supervision
An elderly person with out AD can not be section
If I had left my mother to her own device , not taken control of her medication for diabetic she would have been dead by now or in a mental home, my mother was so lost in her reality of her own mind of AD ,yes like Bruce says she thought I must have been *wired *because I could not enter in to her reality ,her confusion made her get angry & violent with me ,I had to stand back & look at the situation from out side the box , this was not the relationship I was brought up with ,with my mother from childhood ,my mother was leaning crying with anger for my help ,do I give her anger back ,would I do that with my own child ? To an adult in the street,( well an adult in the street is not my family ) she herself could not understand what was happening ,we all have different journey with are love one , I pick the best skills I new I had from being a mother & use them with respect & dignity towards my mother
lila13
When you say I agree. It is demeaning for an adult to be treated as a child yes I agree & I find it demeaning from you & Bruce in assuming that of me & Tender face sums it all up when she says is that it is a symptom of an underlying need which needs to be addressed , But understand how people perceive things in different ways ,so no hard feeling
Bets Glad to hear that With the medication things have improved with his heath , do you now sort all his medication out now ? what was your husband like with his medication before VD
I know my mother is not a child & has had a past ,
Yes so for me to understand my mother how I perceive it how it help me, I compare it to child like behaviour ,so enabling me to cope with any given situation that arises, all people with AD have a mental illness , if not & my mother could make her own choices I would not have been given E POA ? .
An elderly person & an elderly person with AD is to different situation.
An elderly person can be left in there own home & not worry that they will leave the gas on or over boil the eggs & set fire to the house.
A person with AD can be a danger to them self’s & those around, them that is why they can be section under the mental heath act ,if no one is supervising them & left to there own device ,but them is your way of thinking are you saying they have a choice ? To be left alone full time with no supervision
An elderly person with out AD can not be section
If I had left my mother to her own device , not taken control of her medication for diabetic she would have been dead by now or in a mental home, my mother was so lost in her reality of her own mind of AD ,yes like Bruce says she thought I must have been *wired *because I could not enter in to her reality ,her confusion made her get angry & violent with me ,I had to stand back & look at the situation from out side the box , this was not the relationship I was brought up with ,with my mother from childhood ,my mother was leaning crying with anger for my help ,do I give her anger back ,would I do that with my own child ? To an adult in the street,( well an adult in the street is not my family ) she herself could not understand what was happening ,we all have different journey with are love one , I pick the best skills I new I had from being a mother & use them with respect & dignity towards my mother
lila13
When you say I agree. It is demeaning for an adult to be treated as a child yes I agree & I find it demeaning from you & Bruce in assuming that of me & Tender face sums it all up when she says is that it is a symptom of an underlying need which needs to be addressed , But understand how people perceive things in different ways ,so no hard feeling
Bets Glad to hear that With the medication things have improved with his heath , do you now sort all his medication out now ? what was your husband like with his medication before VD
Oh Margarita and Bruce,
You two have made a meal of this thread! The daft thing is its a discussion over words - you obviously both care for, love and respect the adult in your own life who has dementia. Oh Margarita, I think all that you were trying to say was that there comes a time in the life of a parent suffering with dementia, when the child (because I am still my mum's child) has to take on the responsible role. We have to make decisions on their behalf, which an adult without dementia would be able to make for themselves. I am sure that neither Bruce nor Lila intended to suggest that you treated your mum as a child in any derogatory sense, it is obvious from everything that you post that you have respect for your mum.
Best wishes
Amy
You two have made a meal of this thread! The daft thing is its a discussion over words - you obviously both care for, love and respect the adult in your own life who has dementia. Oh Margarita, I think all that you were trying to say was that there comes a time in the life of a parent suffering with dementia, when the child (because I am still my mum's child) has to take on the responsible role. We have to make decisions on their behalf, which an adult without dementia would be able to make for themselves. I am sure that neither Bruce nor Lila intended to suggest that you treated your mum as a child in any derogatory sense, it is obvious from everything that you post that you have respect for your mum.
Best wishes
Amy
All your responses have been amazing for me… helping me to work through my own problems which in turn help to understand and address my mother’s better. Thank you.
I’m so ‘new’ to all this but I do see the child analogies – like mum cannot shop for herself, plan a meal, prepare it, cook it. In that sense, yes, she is as reliant on me as my son for, just in this example, proper nourishment. On the other hand, in this example, mum has been through that learning process and I can only imagine her frustration now when she realises she can no longer manage to press a few buttons on a microwave to heat something through….. it’s like she is as a reliant as a child, yet not a child (and the times she must realise that for herself must be some of the more hurtful for her?)
So, back to that ‘IF’ we can do something about it…. right now I can avoid her frustration/anxiety, even embarrassment (which a child wouldn’t feel, but I guess an AD sufferer might?) at not being able to heat through a meal I have left earlier by being there at mealtimes and presenting her with a hot meal, or if I know I can’t be there for a certain mealtime, leaving something she has nothing to do but actually eat (I do try to make sandwiches interesting!).
But there are obviously much, much deeper issues and they can’t always be so easily and practically addressed.
It is the constant ‘trying to strike a balance’, ‘trying to make the right judgement’ that is so overwhelming.
Anyway, thanks to all of you, after a very trying day (on which I may post more later on this thread or elsewhere) I called in her GP. I couldn’t make the judgement, felt I wasn’t prepared to take on the responsibility for what I realised was a ‘clinical’ decision and thanks to the encouragement from you guys, called in the ‘professionals’.
I felt guilty at first I was trying to absolve some responsibility, then realised perhaps I was actually doing best for mum by not trying to take it all on board myself nor to take decisions I am not medically equipped to even contemplate.
I don’t know where I would be without the help from this ‘site’. Thanks all.
I’m so ‘new’ to all this but I do see the child analogies – like mum cannot shop for herself, plan a meal, prepare it, cook it. In that sense, yes, she is as reliant on me as my son for, just in this example, proper nourishment. On the other hand, in this example, mum has been through that learning process and I can only imagine her frustration now when she realises she can no longer manage to press a few buttons on a microwave to heat something through….. it’s like she is as a reliant as a child, yet not a child (and the times she must realise that for herself must be some of the more hurtful for her?)
So, back to that ‘IF’ we can do something about it…. right now I can avoid her frustration/anxiety, even embarrassment (which a child wouldn’t feel, but I guess an AD sufferer might?) at not being able to heat through a meal I have left earlier by being there at mealtimes and presenting her with a hot meal, or if I know I can’t be there for a certain mealtime, leaving something she has nothing to do but actually eat (I do try to make sandwiches interesting!).
But there are obviously much, much deeper issues and they can’t always be so easily and practically addressed.
It is the constant ‘trying to strike a balance’, ‘trying to make the right judgement’ that is so overwhelming.
Anyway, thanks to all of you, after a very trying day (on which I may post more later on this thread or elsewhere) I called in her GP. I couldn’t make the judgement, felt I wasn’t prepared to take on the responsibility for what I realised was a ‘clinical’ decision and thanks to the encouragement from you guys, called in the ‘professionals’.
I felt guilty at first I was trying to absolve some responsibility, then realised perhaps I was actually doing best for mum by not trying to take it all on board myself nor to take decisions I am not medically equipped to even contemplate.
I don’t know where I would be without the help from this ‘site’. Thanks all.
Margarita, I hope that imaginary glass has turned real (and maybe got a refill!?)!
And, Amy, thanks for your observation about playing on 'words'. That is the crux of it for me - not playing around with 'politically correct' words on a forum - albeit the discussions help you see things from so many other perspectives than just your own... but the issue of 'quality' of communication we receive as a carer to someone with dementia and how we have to interpret that - at times - instantly.
I am absolutely 'with' Margarita (this is not a taking sides thing, I know) in that I feel there is a complete role-reversal with me/mum. In fact the phrase, 'unconditional love' has never seemed so poignant... less of that. I need to stay up-beat.
Anyone who has cared for children in any capacity (not necessarily parent) must know that feeling when they turn to you, all sorry-faced, saying, 'I've got a tummy ache'. You respond, 'Oh, dear, show me just where' and they clutch their forehead or point to their big toe.
That's the reality here - the child-like (emphasis on 'like' for those who don't support this philosophy) inability to communicate the real problem and the adult/carer having to make a decision (e.g. does Johnny not want to go to school today because there's something there he's not happy about but hasn't told me, or I should I be rushing him off straight to A&E?). You know if you pack them off to school the secretary will call you within the hour and make you feel like the neglectful parent from hell for even thinking of sending them in - or you keep them home for observation before you decide on the A&E dash and then find they are 'bouncing off the ceiling' by lunchtime (and demanding McDonald's to boot!).
The 'sufferer' may not be likened to a child, but surely the carer assumes the responsibilities of - or in direct parallel to - a 'parent' whatever the 'actual' relationship?
And, Amy, thanks for your observation about playing on 'words'. That is the crux of it for me - not playing around with 'politically correct' words on a forum - albeit the discussions help you see things from so many other perspectives than just your own... but the issue of 'quality' of communication we receive as a carer to someone with dementia and how we have to interpret that - at times - instantly.
I am absolutely 'with' Margarita (this is not a taking sides thing, I know) in that I feel there is a complete role-reversal with me/mum. In fact the phrase, 'unconditional love' has never seemed so poignant... less of that. I need to stay up-beat.
Anyone who has cared for children in any capacity (not necessarily parent) must know that feeling when they turn to you, all sorry-faced, saying, 'I've got a tummy ache'. You respond, 'Oh, dear, show me just where' and they clutch their forehead or point to their big toe.
That's the reality here - the child-like (emphasis on 'like' for those who don't support this philosophy) inability to communicate the real problem and the adult/carer having to make a decision (e.g. does Johnny not want to go to school today because there's something there he's not happy about but hasn't told me, or I should I be rushing him off straight to A&E?). You know if you pack them off to school the secretary will call you within the hour and make you feel like the neglectful parent from hell for even thinking of sending them in - or you keep them home for observation before you decide on the A&E dash and then find they are 'bouncing off the ceiling' by lunchtime (and demanding McDonald's to boot!).
The 'sufferer' may not be likened to a child, but surely the carer assumes the responsibilities of - or in direct parallel to - a 'parent' whatever the 'actual' relationship?
When she still lived at home, I took Jan to the doctor's as there was something or another wrong with her at the time.
He spoke to me normally, and then turned to Jan and shouted his questions at her, as if she were extremely deaf, or thick.
He was lucky that she didn't poke him in the eye for being so stupid.
He was lucky that I didn't beat her to it.
This made me ultra-sensitive to anything that appears to downgrade Jan's situation below that of an intelligent woman. Her capabilities may have degraded, but inside, I still see her, frustrated and pacing up and down.
We all come from different backgrounds with different experiences and those things provide the window through which we each/all see the world. TP acts as a brilliant window cleaner that enables us to see through the windows of others, into their lives, and to understand life from their angle.
I think I need a drink. Pass the bottle Margarita...
He spoke to me normally, and then turned to Jan and shouted his questions at her, as if she were extremely deaf, or thick.
He was lucky that she didn't poke him in the eye for being so stupid.
He was lucky that I didn't beat her to it.
This made me ultra-sensitive to anything that appears to downgrade Jan's situation below that of an intelligent woman. Her capabilities may have degraded, but inside, I still see her, frustrated and pacing up and down.
We all come from different backgrounds with different experiences and those things provide the window through which we each/all see the world. TP acts as a brilliant window cleaner that enables us to see through the windows of others, into their lives, and to understand life from their angle.
I think I need a drink. Pass the bottle Margarita...
Some of the doctors and social worker spoke to my mother as if she were deaf, but luckily she was able to "humour" them.
(She thinks I'm deaf, that's because I don't always come when I'm called and don't give all her witterings the 100% attention she thinks they require.)
Lila
(She thinks I'm deaf, that's because I don't always come when I'm called and don't give all her witterings the 100% attention she thinks they require.)
Lila
Brucie said:
I think my mother has a mental illness, but of course there are different levels of any illness, and so far at least my mother has been able to convince most doctors that she is competent to make most decisions for herself. She isn't ill enough to be sectioned.
When looking after a child, if you wanted to wash the sheets you change them, but with my mother I end up saying, well, if you want to sleep on dirty sheets ... (luckily they aren't that dirty in spite of her claiming incontinence).
Obviously there are some choices she can make and some she can't.
I am sorry you thought I was making any assumptions about you, Margarita, or anyone else in here. I am sure there are many differences between my mother and yours, and obviously what works with mine (within the context of our relationship) wouldn't work with others.
Lila
When looking after a child, if you wanted to wash the sheets you change them, but with my mother I end up saying, well, if you want to sleep on dirty sheets ... (luckily they aren't that dirty in spite of her claiming incontinence).
Obviously there are some choices she can make and some she can't.
I am sorry you thought I was making any assumptions about you, Margarita, or anyone else in here. I am sure there are many differences between my mother and yours, and obviously what works with mine (within the context of our relationship) wouldn't work with others.
Lila
Brucie: TP acts as a brilliant window cleaner that enables us to see through the windows of others, into their lives, and to .....
I spent three hours at the hospital this morning listening to mum telling doctors (as well as the audiologist!) about the constant and excrutiating pain in her back. Returned her home and within five minutes she declared she had awful pain in her buttocks. 'Not your back, mum?' 'No.'
A week or so ago I would have been hitting in the roof - thanks to all that has been shared following my post, I thought of TP and simply smiled ....
The issue is not resolved but the fact I now feel able to 'manage' it is great progress - for mum as well as me.
Thanks again, all!
I spent three hours at the hospital this morning listening to mum telling doctors (as well as the audiologist!) about the constant and excrutiating pain in her back. Returned her home and within five minutes she declared she had awful pain in her buttocks. 'Not your back, mum?' 'No.'
A week or so ago I would have been hitting in the roof - thanks to all that has been shared following my post, I thought of TP and simply smiled ....
The issue is not resolved but the fact I now feel able to 'manage' it is great progress - for mum as well as me.
Thanks again, all!
Sorry ,but your mum made me giggle when you said that
Ask her does she suffer from Piles ?not jokeing because I do
What a lovely way with words .
my My mum took me into her memories,just before I was leavening talking about her mother & seeing her few days after she died ,mum was in UK at the time she died.
Mum told me how the colour of her mum face had change & said that she did not go to the funeral as it was to painful ,could not understand how she could not go to the funeral & ask her but why? She said that she could not talk about it any more as it gives her a pain in the chest .
its always been like that with mum if it comes to death emotional pain when I was younger even now she put a stop to the conversation , she said that she gets scared in case she dreams about it alone in bed so I told her to remember the happy time with your mum , ok she said your gran stole all my money I was saving & burned all my books ,Oh ok mum I said sound like gran had what you got & left it at that . She died at the age of 54 .
Sorry hope I am not depressing you all don’t know why, but felt like sharing it .
on a positive note ,mum is washing herself at the care home & they encourage her ,something she never done with me ,she in love with one of the a man that visit his dad who around my age ,keeps saying to me ,I am older them him ,but you never no he may fall in love with me lol .
I was talking to him & in conversation about the new ad that the AD is going to show on prime time TV he said that his dad keeps asking why he keeps thinking that his wife is alive?I did not no what to say ,so I ask him what did you tell your dad ,he smile & said that she 6ft under , It dose make me wonder if my mum gets to that stage & ask me why what do I say ?
Hi everyone
I found the posts in this thread reflecting my own emotions. I have long ago accepted the reversal of the mother-child roles but still when someone else says that my mother has become like a child, I tend to go on the defensive. I have never liked labels of any kind on any person and I do get terribly upset when friends suggest that it should be easier for me to put my mum in a home now that she doesn't even know that I am her daughter. I am beginning to get sore at my good friends and get annoyed at the presumptions they make. I do understand that they speak largely from ignorance and believe that they will be helping me by saying such things !!
These days, Mum has been waiting for a bus to take her home and keeps insisting that I open the doors of the flat to let her out. Although exhausting, I take her out under the pretext of catching a bus and on Wednesday, I took her out to a nearby cafe where we ordered tea and some snack. She could drink the tea on her own but guess what? I spoon-fed the snack in full public view. Some people sort of stared . I was probably violating table manners and etiquette but I couldn't care less. I was glad she loved the sweet snack and was suffciently distracted from wanting to take the bus home.
If I don't get logged out again, hope to 'see' you all soon.
Cheers
I found the posts in this thread reflecting my own emotions. I have long ago accepted the reversal of the mother-child roles but still when someone else says that my mother has become like a child, I tend to go on the defensive. I have never liked labels of any kind on any person and I do get terribly upset when friends suggest that it should be easier for me to put my mum in a home now that she doesn't even know that I am her daughter. I am beginning to get sore at my good friends and get annoyed at the presumptions they make. I do understand that they speak largely from ignorance and believe that they will be helping me by saying such things !!
These days, Mum has been waiting for a bus to take her home and keeps insisting that I open the doors of the flat to let her out. Although exhausting, I take her out under the pretext of catching a bus and on Wednesday, I took her out to a nearby cafe where we ordered tea and some snack. She could drink the tea on her own but guess what? I spoon-fed the snack in full public view. Some people sort of stared . I was probably violating table manners and etiquette but I couldn't care less. I was glad she loved the sweet snack and was suffciently distracted from wanting to take the bus home.
If I don't get logged out again, hope to 'see' you all soon.
Cheers
Last edited:
Stimpfig
I must admit that I have always thought that when mum gets to the stage of not knowing me, I would put mum in a care home full time.
Yes it must be exhausting for you, as I am wondering does your mum not wonder of and open the door? You must have to keep an eye on her 24/7? How do you cope with that? If you don’t mind sharing?
I must admit that I have always thought that when mum gets to the stage of not knowing me, I would put mum in a care home full time.
Yes it must be exhausting for you, as I am wondering does your mum not wonder of and open the door? You must have to keep an eye on her 24/7? How do you cope with that? If you don’t mind sharing?
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