1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

    Sam, our Knowledge Officer (Legal and Welfare Rights) is our expert on this topic. She will be here to answer your questions on Wednesday 26 June between 3:30 - 4:30 pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

  1. Jess1982

    Jess1982 Registered User

    Nov 9, 2014
    75
    My mum has been in a psychiatric hospital after being sectioned for 5 months.
    She couldn't wait to get out and we recently found a suitable care home that would accept both my mum and dad.
    She moved yesterday and today I took round lots of photos, ornaments etc that would make her room seem homely.
    When I arrived she was in an absolute rage, banging on the door aggressively asking to go home.
    I took my husband and children and thought she'd be happy to see them. But she carried on shouting saying if we unpacked her stuff she'd rip it down. She is refusing her medication too.
    She said "I'll never forgive you for this".
    She blames the whole situation on me.

    Ive always been a terrible daughter in her eyes.
    We couldn't stay more than a few minutes as she was so aggressive.

    I think she will settle quicker if I don't visit.
    Just had to offload as the experience of visiting first time was so horrific!
     
  2. opaline

    opaline Registered User

    Nov 13, 2014
    182
    Glad you've got your husband for support as many people have no-one, I would leave it a few weeks to let her settle even though it will be very hard, x
     
  3. Karjo

    Karjo Registered User

    Jan 11, 2012
    481
    Oh I know how you feel because the same has happened to me twice. First time hubbie and me cowered in her room for hours and couldn't escape and got no help from staff to escape, they all seemd to have disappeared.Mum stalked the corridors banging and shouting abuse and we did not even have the code to get out of the door. it was probably one of the worst experiences of my life. Unfortunately Mum never settled and was probably even worse when I was not there as she was usually in a terrible state when I arrived as staff did not know how to cope and she refused most medication. She eventually had to leave, back into another assessment unit, and now again in a nursing home on one to one care for now.
    Your poor mum needs you and I would keep in contact with the home to see how she is and if she is settling. But be aware they may not be able to cope as they do not have the staffing levels of the hospital, so if you can face it try and make sure her suffering is not any more than necessary. Having said this I couldn't bare to see how Mum was as she was very mobile, very verbal and aggressive so hence they all gave her a wide berth and I made a rod for my own back trying to keep her fed, clean etc., it took its toll on me and I don't know if I would do it again. But after the first shock and fury at seeing her things in a home she did not relate to, she soon started to see me as an ally and our relationship improved. I was able to take her out and we enjoyed many trips out and about so not all bad. To be honest Mum was very aware of her plight and to be unable to get out, have anything to do and be surrounded by a lot of people who were literally dying in their beds seemed unnecessarily cruel, but i don't know what the answer is. My thoughts are truly with you. it's unbelievably hard, and I hope she is in a good home with kind and experienced staff.
     
  4. RedLou

    RedLou Registered User

    Jul 30, 2014
    1,161
    If she's always been critical and has now chosen to focus her demented frustration on you, well -- I'd stay away personally. You mention your dad being there. Is he able to settle her? Can you just visit him for a while?
     
  5. patsy56

    patsy56 Registered User

    Jan 14, 2015
    840
    Fife Scotland
    #5 patsy56, May 2, 2015
    Last edited: May 2, 2015
    I am so sorry I know I am a daughter who can do no right........unless I take her in the car for a run. Please hang in there we are here for you.
     
  6. Jess1982

    Jess1982 Registered User

    Nov 9, 2014
    75
    Yes
    I usually visit her alone but thought she would be happy to see my kids, they are the one thing that usually cheers her up.

    I will ring care home every couple days to get updates on how she's settling before I see her again.

    Thanks.
     
  7. Jess1982

    Jess1982 Registered User

    Nov 9, 2014
    75
    Yes I've never been able to do right even before her dementia!

    I was going to take her out for a coffee and return tomorrow but after seeing the way she was I knew she wouldn't agree to come back with me.

    Thanks.
     
  8. Jess1982

    Jess1982 Registered User

    Nov 9, 2014
    75
    Thanks

    Yes I'll definitely stay away for a while.

    I'll try and visit my dad who is on a different floor and just hope she doesn't see me!
     
  9. patsy56

    patsy56 Registered User

    Jan 14, 2015
    840
    Fife Scotland
    I am the older of two and I was dads favourite. Mum had miscarriage between me and sis and I always was never sure, did I cause it, as she never really liked or loved me.
     
  10. Jess1982

    Jess1982 Registered User

    Nov 9, 2014
    75
    Thanks
    Sounds like you've been through very similar.
    So was your mum sectioned more than once?

    My mum was sectioned for 5/6 months and they could not improve her behaviour at all! So her going back to the psychiatric ward would be pointless!

    The staff at the care home did not seem that phased at her behaviour surprisingly! We'll see how far she pushes them (hopefully not literally!)
     
  11. Blackfield

    Blackfield Registered User

    Mar 8, 2015
    21
    I have just experienced the same with my dad. We found him a lovely CH and the staff said it was OK to visit for the first time as he was settling well. My brother and I went together as I did not believe he would be particularly accepting of the situation. This was Monday, I'm still suffering bad dreams from the experience. he was horrid and got incredibly angry and agitated at both of us. There is no point in us visiting for a very long time as he is OK when we are not there. I keep in the touch with the CH but potentially that may well be the last time I ever see him while he stil remembers who I am as it really unsettled him.
     
  12. Karjo

    Karjo Registered User

    Jan 11, 2012
    481
    mum was sectioned the first time and spent 10 months in the unit, hard going as it was about 45 minutes away, and like your Mum her behaviour never really improved. She can be a joy, but then something happens and the huge mood swing takes place. Sometimes I can completely appreciate it as to why (awareness,frustration,glimpses of her old life disappearing, hunger, pain,inability to communicate, deprivation of liberty, pride,boredom,thirst,fear,anger-the list goes on ). All excuses of course because even I hate to admit that it's mum that is the problem, not the environment. it would seem like a betrayal of trust to say its all her, especially when the level of care is sometimes very poor due to lack of dementia training etc etc. She is much less capable now and her horizons have narrowed but she still gets frustrated and angry.Her main obsession at the moment is trying to pick the tiny bits of fluff off her dressing gown which I had to hide in a cupboard yesterday as she got angrier and angrier with it. She then turned her attention to her cardigan and the minute holes between the stitches! She will then suddenly go charging off to claim back clothes from one of the other residents, and this can be where the trouble starts with fights. Of course they are not her clothes , but homes being homes this was invariably the case in the first home as her things were always missing and bless her there was often another resident in her bed or room which to her was theft, burglary etc so she going to protect herself and her things but this ended in violence. Not the right home for her, though a good home for some so not a crtitcism once they got a new manager The new manager tried her very best, but under section 117 they were only able to charge the EPR rate which was not enough for them to keep an eye on mum and keep her and the other vulnerable residents safe, so in the end she was evicted. This time she was not sectioned but we took her, with only two hours notice to remove her so a bit of a shock, to a state of the art new unit very close by, which was so much easier. I don't really know how it was done legally . I have p of a and was in agreement, and we drove her to it, so sort of voluntary I suppose. Mum was furious however and wanted to burn the place down so was obviously not in agreement, banging on doors etc and got into fights with other residents even in an NHS unit. She recognises there is something not right with them so wants to get away, but does not realise she too is not quite right! A DOL was eventually applied for by the hospital. I think she needs another one for the home she is currently in but she had notice of eviction a couple of days after moving there. We are just hanging on by a thread at keeping her there, but if the one to one is removed she may be off somewhere else, probably a police cell!
    So I have waffled on here, but sometimes it answers questions in my own mind as to what has happened to write it down so please forgive me. Dementia struck like a whirlwind that I can't quite keep up with and I am the sort of person that likes a bit of structure and to make plans for the future. Everything in life now however seems to revolve around a black hole that I can't escape from unless Mum falls in first, and I love her too much to push her in.
     
  13. Jess1982

    Jess1982 Registered User

    Nov 9, 2014
    75
    Don't feel bad for offloading. I'm thankful this forum is here for all of us to do just that when we need to.

    It seems there is no suitable places for people like our mums!

    There is no way i could have her live with me.
    I have two children and am pregnant now. Im also at college. Theres way too much in my own life go deal with her complex needs.

    Also we have nevervreally got on. It makes the situation evdn harder. Shes never accepted my personality, life choices. Always been very critical.
    The dementia has just exaggerated this,
    So i find it hard to feel sorry for her and make excuses becausevto a certain extent its how she's always been.

    Apparently she told the care home staff they weren't even allowed to mention my name.
    Shes always done nothing but slagged me off, the only difference is now she does it openly!

    Its so hard. Im all shes got but i feel like just walking away. Its only guilt thats kept me seeing her all these years even though i have nothing to feel guilty for.
    Ive always been the best daughter i could be!

    Hope your mum settles and can stay where she is.

    Ive just had a call from no caller id which is usually hospital or social worker. Where its a bank hol im wondering if shes been taken back to psychiatric ward!
     
  14. Amy in the US

    Amy in the US Registered User

    Feb 28, 2015
    4,624
    USA
    Hi, Jess. I don't know that I have specific advice to offer but did want to say, you are definitely not alone on the "daughter who can do no right" for a critical, unpleasant mother front. I'm another one of those, although in my situation, that was more true in the past than in the present.

    But I'm definitely struggling with how to deal with my mother with dementia, given that there is no positive history for the two of us. It's very difficult not to feel angry, resentful, and just plain uncaring when you have to do a whole lot of work for someone with whom you're not only not close, but you never were, and they might turn on you at any moment.

    For whatever it's worth, my mother also blamed me, both for the hospitalization and then the subsequent move to the care home, and was very nasty (a level of nasty she hadn't been in years in fact) to me at the beginning of both transitions, but she has settled down. In fact, she's doing much better than I would ever have guessed in the care home. But, I didn't visit for weeks at the beginning and still don't go often or for very long, and I am careful to never be alone with her. The odd nasty comment that gets trotted out now, is always when there is no one else around to hear.

    And I have read many similar stories here on TP, which help me a lot. Partly it's comforting to know that some of this behaviour is the dementia/illness and not the person (although my mother has some control still over what she says). Partly it's really nice to know you're not alone. I remember feeling upset about some dementia caregiver's advice book I was reading: most examples in the book featured caregivers who had siblings and good relationships with their mums before Alzheimers and were very sad. I was annoyed at that book because I thought, where are the stories about only children, with negative or non-existent relationships with their mothers, and who are angry? Then I came here and had a search and found out, there are lots of us!

    Sorry for the personal digression.

    But you need to take care of yourself and your kids and the one on the way, and you won't be of any use to anybody unless you do. Guilt gets at all at one point or another but you do sound like you know none of this is your fault.

    Keep us posted if you get a chance, and take care of yourself!
     
  15. Karjo

    Karjo Registered User

    Jan 11, 2012
    481
    Absolutely no way could you have your mum live with you . You have your own life, children, husband and responsibilities. Sometimes when my Mum is a lovely sweet little old lady wanting home , I too start to weaken and wonder if we could take her, but like you I know it would never work as she cannot keep it up for long. At the first rage she got into she would be smashing windows to get out! If the foundations for living together were never there in the first place when times were good,ie pre dementia, then it would certainly not work with dementia. And what a strain this would have on your family too. You have your hands full as it is with two parents in care and a family, and if your Mum is so abusive then all you can do is keep an eye on things, you can't make her happy. Maybe that is why you (and I and a few others as well I daresay)carry some guilt,. Since I was a child I could not make Mum happy no matter how I tried, and somehow thought it was my fault ( though I had a pretty sensible Dad who made a good balance as he knew she always had some issues) So whilst I know it is absolute rubbish to think this way, I still sometimes feel if I just tried that little bit harder it might help her find some peace.
    Anyway please keep posting and let us know if your mum is readmitted.
     
  16. Jess1982

    Jess1982 Registered User

    Nov 9, 2014
    75
    Hi

    Thanks for your reply. Our situations sound so similar. I really related to what you said about having no "positive history"

    My mum has made my life hell for years now and this seems like the final straw.

    What's tricky is my parents are now in the same care home. I thought this could be good but visited today and it was awful.

    I want to do what you did and not visit for a while but then feel guilty.

    My mum said today "I'll never forgive you for doing this to me" really nasty. So I said I was leaving. She then asked me to stay and begged me to come back soon!

    I also relate to what you said about literature about dementia always focuses on previous good parental relationships.
    Maybe we should write our own..."don't visit, save yourself" type thing lol.

    Feel drained and exhausted from it all. Each time I think we are moving forward things seem worse.

    Keep me posted too.
     
  17. Jess1982

    Jess1982 Registered User

    Nov 9, 2014
    75
    Apart from this forum being good to share dementia experiences, it amazes me how many people have always had bad relationships with their mums. It really does complicate the situation.

    I too had a dad that was the sane rational one but I could never please my mum. Even as a 5 year old I was told I didn't hug her like other children hugged their mums. The blame has always been put on me. She would never think it was something she had done to influence my behaviour.

    Anyway she's still at care home. So far they're managing her ok.

    Keep in touch
     
  18. Amy in the US

    Amy in the US Registered User

    Feb 28, 2015
    4,624
    USA
    For Jess, and Karjo, and Sarah, and everyone else on TP who has a difficult relationship with their mother:

    It helps so much to know that you're not the only one. So thank you all for being brave enough to open up to a bunch of strangers on the Internet. I've gotten so much help and advice and support from the short time I've been on TP.

    And for anyone who had an impossible to please mum: it took me years, or maybe decades, to figure out that IT WAS NOT MY FAULT. I can remember being 30-something years old, coming back to my aunt and uncle's house after being with my mother, and relating the usual story of her nastiness and unpleasantness to them (thank goodness for all those other people in our lives). I clearly recall putting my head down on the table and saying, "I don't know what I did wrong, I don't know why she treats me like that, what did I do wrong?" My poor patient friends and relatives said over and over, you didn't do anything wrong, it's not you, it's her.

    But it took me a really long time to get to where I genuinely believed it wasn't somehow my fault. So be patient and kind with yourselves, and remember, it wasn't anything you did or didn't do or did or didn't say, and it's not your fault about the past and it sure isn't your fault about the dementia. It's s---e (s--t in the States!), but it's not your fault. Not your fault. Just keep repeating that!

    Karjo, you are so right that the lack of a good relationship with the parent with dementia, complicates things no end. I feel like I have no framework to hang this on. I realise my situation isn't nearly as bad as others, but it's still what it is. I look around at my friends who have relationships with their mothers, as adult children, and think, well, when her mom gets loopy and nasty at least she will have nice memories of the trips they took and the time they spent together. Maybe it doesn't really help, and maybe it's actually harder because you do have a relationship to mourn, but I feel like this would be different in some way, if I had some more nice history with my mother to remember. I don't really know. I can't change the past and the d--m dementia is beyond any control.

    A friend of mine had a mother, not with dementia, but manipulative and unpleasant, in a care home. She would visit her mother often and often her mother would be very nasty to her. One day she said to her mother, when the usual nastiness started, "Mum, I can see you're not feeling up to visitors today. I will come back on Wednesday" and left. Miraculously on Wednesday, her mother was happy to see her! This was repeated as necessary. I always did think that stellar advice!

    In the hospital and the care home when my mother would start to get nasty at me, or sometimes even when I just couldn't take the repetitions or confabulations any longer, I'd excuse myself to go to the loo. I didn't always have to go but it would get me out of the room long enough to take a deep breath and be alone, behind a locked door. I still do this when we take my mother on an outing (I haven't done this alone and frankly am scared to) or are visiting her at the care home and I need a break. If it's really bad I will text or call a friend or surf the Internet on my phone for a couple of minutes, to distract me. One good thing about dementia is my mother can't remember if I just came back from the toilet! So everybody remember, you can always take a break in the loo!

    Hang in there, everybody. Any updates?
     
  19. SarahL

    SarahL Registered User

    Dec 1, 2012
    229
    #19 SarahL, May 9, 2015
    Last edited: May 9, 2015
    Hi Jess, I think I emailed you a while ago when my mum first got sectioned and you were thinking your Mum would be anytime too. It is horrible to be blamed and to be on the receiving end of the aggression and verbal abuse. I know this very well. My Mum has good and bad days (she's been in the CH 6 months now) and on the bad days when Mum is being paranoid and nasty to me I have to remind myself that this was how awful it was ALL the time before she went into the CH and that there's no way I could go back to living my life like that. Therefore it is better for her (vulnerability and safety) and better for me (mental and physical health). I also remind myself that I didn't know Mum was going to get this disease and there is nothing I could have done to stop its escalation. On the good days I do feel guilty and wonder if she could have stayed at home longer but I have to replace those thoughts with how awful life had become. I sometimes put my 'sane' emotions and sentimental thoughts on how Mum must feel to never see her house again or have her belongings around her, but then I realise that she doesn't think like that now and it is my imagining how she'd feel if she did not have the disease. The fact is she does and a lot of my anger is subsiding now I'm not in the thick of looking after her any more. I do get upset when she's awful to me and as I said to Amy on here it still amazes me that she can be so insulting to me out of earshot of others. If she is very cross and angry at me now when I go in, I have learned to firmly say that I will go and come back another time, and then she becomes nicer and makes excuses for her rudeness. Worth a try? I do hope your Mum can settle slowly. My Mum's medication is being constantly monitored as she has shown signs of paranoia and psychosis, her anxiety levels are high and I do think there's the question of innate personalities in the first place. My Mum was always very volatile and nervous so I think she'll always have those traits, whether she'd got the disease or not. I wish you all the very best and I'm so glad to read both your parents are in the same place as I remember this was a worry for you. All the best and take care, Sarah x
     
  20. Jess1982

    Jess1982 Registered User

    Nov 9, 2014
    75
    Hi
    I haven't been on here for a while.

    Very true what you say in that there's no nice mum/daughter relationship framework to work on from a dementia point of view.
    Ive often wondered what is worse- having no nice memories and mum still being awful or having a great sense of loss because I've lost a great relationship?!

    Its a hard one we'll never really know.

    I must say though ive always got on better with my dad. I find his dementia much easier to deal with. Although he gets agitated and confused the same nice personality is consistently there. I find the same when i visit the care home. Residents with dementia are still capable of being nice to me and my children whereas my mum can't!

    My update is that I haven't visited in almost 2 weeks. Its done me the world of good and a brave decision on my part. Its been almost like a holiday, time to recharge.
    However I had an e mail from my parents social work which whether intentional or not I felt to be a guilt trip.
    She told me shed visited them and theyd both been very concerned why they hadnt seen me.
    So ever since Ive felt very guilty.
    Ive also been thinking the care home staff will all think what shes said about me is justified!
    Ill go this week and im sure my mum will be unfriendly again.

    I have so much going on. Im 5 months pregnant, 2 other children, at college, trying to set up a business.
    I could visit daily and my mum wouldnt appreciate it.
    The staff and social worker dont fully understand our relationship either.
    I know its done me good to keep away and think its something i should do more of but hate feeling guilty and judged!

    Sorry for lack of punctuation! Typing on phone.
     

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