AAAGGGHHH Social Services!!!!!

heyjude

Registered User
Mar 27, 2008
25
0
So we have been up to look at the house (MIL taken in to care) it's not good and needs attention.
We have removed some very very old clothes and textiles (net curtains, her clothes we know are old or do not fit,bedding and curtains)not a great deal.
I have had a call from Social Services telling us to be mindful of what we dispose of as everything will have to be sold to pay for her care, there is nothing in the house worth even £20.
We also need to be mindful of what people will think us going in the house and taking things....what do they think we are??? There is nothing of value at all, I would like to know where her jewellery is but they could not tell me that.
I feel like telling them to stick it where the sun don't shine why should we run around trying to get pennies for things and deal with selling the house which has been my husbands for the past 4 years on her insistance before she got dementia..
We were thinking for doing some work in the house to see if it would go for a better price, but again AAAGGGHHH.
I wanted to take them the deeds to the house today and say you sort it all, but then I changed my mind, calmed down and called a solicitor.
We need legal advice.
Sorry to rant.
 

Natashalou

Registered User
Mar 22, 2007
426
0
london
Im sorry to hear you are having such a bad time with SS...I no longer have a high opinion of most of them either since my own recent experiences.
I havent actually heard of this twist of "selling everything" to pay for care though .My mother has several pieces of nice jewellery in my care by default as its not safe to leave it with her..I hope they dont try and get their hands on that!
 

ella24

Registered User
Nov 9, 2008
1,024
0
South Coast UK
It certainly sounds like your SS team is being heavy handed
I just looked at the direct.gov site http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HealthAndWellBeing/HealthServices/CareHomes/DG_10031525

and they state the following are included in the financial assessment

Examples of income include:
* interest on your savings
* private and/or State Pension
* some benefits like Pension Credit, Attendance Allowance or the care component of Disability Living Allowance

Your capital might include:
* savings
* investments
* any property you might own (like your home or holiday home, for example)


If you have had the Financial Assessment, they will have an idea of any 'assets' - and there should be no requirement to itemise any items to sell.
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
Actually I think they're wrong about that ("the everything needs to be sold to pay for care" comment). CRAG makes it clear that personal possessions such as art and antiques are disregarded indefinitely, unless they were purchased with the sole aim of reducing assets. If your long time owned Picasso doesn't need to be sold, then I hardly think your old clothes do.

It's section 6.028

Disregarded indefinitely

6.028 The capital assets listed below are disregarded indefinitely:

• property in specified circumstances (see Section 7)

• surrender value of any:

• life insurance policy Schedule 4 para.13

• annuity Schedule 4 para.9

• payments of training bonus up to £200 Schedule 4 para.17

• payments in kind from a charity Schedule 4 para.17

• any personal possession such as paintings or antiques unless they were purchased
with the intention of reducing capital for the purpose of reducing the LA charge (see
para 6.065)

There's more after that but that's the relevant part.

The only time personal possessions need to be sold if they were purchased in order to spend down capital.

So tell this social worker that you want her to point out to you exactly where in CRAG (Charging for Residential Accommodation Guidelines) that it says this.
 

Canadian Joanne

Registered User
Apr 8, 2005
17,710
0
70
Toronto, Canada
I think you should get some professional advice. If the house is already in your husband's name for 4 years before the dementia, why should it count now as her possession?

I think you should take the old clothes & curtains over to their offices so they can sell them. Once they have a good look, perhaps they'll have the grace to be embarrassed.
 

JPG1

Account Closed
Jul 16, 2008
3,391
0
Jobsworth!!

Hey Jude!

To paraphrase a song: Remember, don’t let her under your skin, then you’ll begin to make it better!

You’re just one of the unfortunate many who come by a SW from that place where the sun don’t shine. There are only few of them, we are led to believe!!

How about this: “please return the two crystal vases that you have taken”. Those 2 “crystal” vases were bought for about £2 each from the local market – and the only time they resembled anything like sparkling crystal was after I had washed them and placed them into the ‘display cabinet’ full of other trinkets from 80 years of life. I went back to the flat, photographed them, and sent the SW a copy. So that she could see exactly what was where.

And I then also had a photo of all the other ‘valuables’ in the cabinet.

Why I had never thought of doing that before is beyond me. But like you, you have to get smacked in the gob before it even enters your head that you might need that kind of evidence. It’s a horrible situation to find yourself in, and I feel for you enormously.

But, when I pointed out to the SW from that place where the sun don’t shine, that we had scrubbed the flat from top to bottom, including fixing windows, in anticipation of a ‘return home’, that we had already sorted ‘that noise in the kitchen that drives me mad’ and ‘that smell in the bathroom that I can’t get rid of’ (it was a major building-fault!!) and in spite of the fact that the North Hell Housing Group had failed to keep their part of the Extra-Care Sheltered Housing contract ... the tune changed to a far more acceptable tune.

Jude, do you remember that phrase "job's worth" made popular by that ER with the big teeth - well, that's what you're up against. That's all. A jobsworth.

Rant on! I’m hearing your every word and absorbing your pain for you. Not that it will help your situation, but it might just do that if only to know that you are far from alone!!

.
 

heyjude

Registered User
Mar 27, 2008
25
0
Thank you

I feel like I am gagged at the moment as I do not want to do anything that would affect her care or the way she is dealt with.
Maybe I have to just listen and observe for the moment and then see what the solicitors says.
I love the idea of taking her 'tat' to the office, I would need a large van tho' as she was a hoarder.
How sad that this is the sum of a person's life.
 

1948NHSBaby

Registered User
Feb 18, 2009
56
0
Crag 2009

http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_097579.pdf

Jenniferpa is right, possessions the council seem to want to be incuded in capital cannot be regarded, there is nothing the council can do in this situation, other than normal pension and other benefit income.

I would ask them for an explanation as to what section in CRAG, they believe they can apply to your case.

It seems a continuing health care assessment would be applicable, suggest this to the social services, if they (ss) do not want to pay for the care, it may be that the NHS is responsible anyway due to primary health needs, not care needs.
 

vivienz

Registered User
Jan 26, 2009
17
0
Bournemouth
Hello Jude,

Sorry to hear about your MIL; I have a couple of points that you may find useful, having gone through a similar thing with my mother this year.
1. Personal possessions and items of small value (chattels) are not counted as assets in someone's estate for the purposes of a financial assessment. If your MIL no longer owns her house and the total contents and other assets amount to less than £23k, then SS cannot take these into account anyway.
2. Was anything put in writing at the time your MIL gifted the house to her son? If so, that could be very useful in proving that it was a gift and she was of sound mind when she did so. If there is anything else around dating from that time that can prove she was capable, then this would support your case.
3. Inheritance tax and income tax could be an issue on the death of your MIL, but if the total value of her estate (including the house) is less than £325k, then you can ignore this. If it is more, then the Inland Revenue may take an interest and decide some inheritance tax is owed.
4. If your MIL is still being assessed in hospital and her treatment/condition isn't stabilised, then finding a place isn't an issue until she is ready for discharge.
5. When she is ready for discharge from hospital, the relevant NHS trust should, as part of the discharge procedure, go through the single assessment process, part of which will be an assessment of your MIL for whether she qualifies for NHS funded continuing health care. As and when this happens, it is vitally important that you or your husband are involved in this process since information included in this can either be wrong or missing altogether. Also, this should involve all disciplines of care that have been involved in the treatment of your MIL - if they aren't, insist that they are and that the assessment should not take place without their input, or yours. If they do not do this, insist that they do it again.
6. Be very cautious of the steeply sloping shoulders of the NHS and SS. They will each try and claim that they are not responsible for the funding of your MIL's care, and there is a risk that she will stay in hospital far longer than necessary whilst these arguments go on. Once she is ready for discharge and the assessment has been made, insist that an appropriate placement is found for her and funding sorted out as and when the various departments can decide whose responsibility it is.
7. If your MIL does win NHS funded CHC, be aware that it is reviewed regularly, and anything between 8 - 12 weeks from the outset for the first review. If your MIL's condition has improved in that time and a primary medical need no longer exists, then she will be bounced back to SS for funding, by the NHS.

Sorry, more than a few points, but I hope they're useful.

Best wishes,
Vivien
 

heyjude

Registered User
Mar 27, 2008
25
0
Thank you

I think we will need broad shoulders.
I am off to see a solicitor who has just won a case to get funding back next week.
Do you know she was such a nasty ***** all her life, and last night my other half said, I'd rather have her back with all the bitchiness than her go through all this.
I think we just feel sooooooooooo guilty now.
 

Ladywriter1968

Registered User
Oct 2, 2009
438
0
London UK
thats awful for you

So we have been up to look at the house (MIL taken in to care) it's not good and needs attention.
We have removed some very very old clothes and textiles (net curtains, her clothes we know are old or do not fit,bedding and curtains)not a great deal.
I have had a call from Social Services telling us to be mindful of what we dispose of as everything will have to be sold to pay for her care, there is nothing in the house worth even £20.
We also need to be mindful of what people will think us going in the house and taking things....what do they think we are??? There is nothing of value at all, I would like to know where her jewellery is but they could not tell me that.
I feel like telling them to stick it where the sun don't shine why should we run around trying to get pennies for things and deal with selling the house which has been my husbands for the past 4 years on her insistance before she got dementia..
We were thinking for doing some work in the house to see if it would go for a better price, but again AAAGGGHHH.
I wanted to take them the deeds to the house today and say you sort it all, but then I changed my mind, calmed down and called a solicitor.
We need legal advice.
Sorry to rant.

Bloody SS, thats awful, my dad in council house and has no savings, if he goes into care, I wonder whether they will expect us to do same them to pay towards it. He has nothing of value either?