A Finance Question

ElaineMaul

Registered User
Jan 29, 2005
333
60
Hi,
A few weeks ago, there was a Panorama TV programme on the BBC that explored the whole business of who pays for a person's care, several people being outraged that a family home had to be sold to pay for care whereas they saw it as something the parents would have wanted to pass on to their children.
I don't really want to get into a debate about the rights and wrongs of having to pay for it yourself ..... to be honest, as far as I'm concerned, what my Mum and Dad have worked for is theirs to use to give them a comfortable old age.

However ..... there's a complication. My brother lives with them as well, so it is also his home. I'm a bit concerned that, if a charge was put on the house (which is in my parent's names jointly), when they have both passed away, if it has to be sold, he'll be homeless! Is this right? If the possibility is there that this could happen in the future, is there anything we can do now ............ my Dad has an Alzheimer diagnosis but hopefully he's a long way from needing care in a home (I'm touching wood here 'cos who knows on that one!) and my Mum is as bright as a button and hopefully the same!!

Thanks
Elaine
 

bernie

Registered User
Jul 28, 2005
52
south london
my understanding is that you are correct and that he could be kicked out, when your parents die.

if he is over 60 I think and continues to live in the property or has a disability the value of the property may be disregarded.

also the local authority may use its discretion to disregard the value of the property in certain circumstances, I think this would normally mean if your brother gave up work to look after your parents and continued to live in the property. The council would be under a legal obligation to house you brother so they may allow him to live in the house to fulfill their obligation.

this is just my understanding, I thought I would get into the same situation, but unfortunately my mother died before the situation arose .
 

ElaineMaul

Registered User
Jan 29, 2005
333
60
Hi Bernie,
Thanks for that.

What if my brother 'bought' the house from my Mum and Dad?

........ but I'm sure the powers-that-be have got that loophole covered, haven't they?

Elaine
 

bernie

Registered User
Jul 28, 2005
52
south london
you would have to get proper advice on this. if the property is purchased at full market value I guess this should be OK.

if they gave it away this would get caught up in deprivation of assets/beneficial ownership.

if it is bought at below market value this may cause complications.

I have a cousin who got in a similar situation. he bought (I think) the property from his father and moved out, when his father got worse he moved back in. then the father went into a home and the property had to be taken into consideration and the son had to make a contribution to the fees.

this is just my understanding as it never got this far with my mother

there may be other tricks like maybe spliting the property in 3 and buying a 1/3 share. I don't know how this would work out so it might be worth goig to your local cab/consulting a solicitor
 
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jarnee

Registered User
Mar 18, 2006
181
leicestershire

Sandy

Registered User
Mar 23, 2005
6,847
Hi Elaine,

Glad to see you back on TP again!

The Society has a fact sheet on this:

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/Caring_for_someone_with_dementia/Residential_and_nursing_care/info_payingfees.htm

Seems like children under 60 with a disability cannot be forced to leave the family home.

This link from the government on inheritance planning might also be useful:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/Taxes/InheritanceTaxEstatesAndTrusts/InheritanceTaxArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=10013054&chk=Dmjhjd

Personally, I would invest in a session with a solicitor or financial advisor who specialises in inheritance planning. Given the sums of money involved and the consequences for your family, paying for an hour of expert advice seems a sound investment.

Take care,

Sandy
 

ElaineMaul

Registered User
Jan 29, 2005
333
60
Hi Sandy <wave> and Jarnee,

I've been a bit busy settling into a new job ...... full time in an office as opposed to working in a school ...... love it, but fitting everything else in can be a bit tiring!
And maybe people can relate to this? ...... Dad has (appeared) to be reasonably fine ...... but then a slight remark from my Mum, followed up from one from my brother, about Dad's quite aggressive outbursts, plus the information from the doctor about not being able to have Aricept because of his slow heart rate, has resulted in me scuttling back here to see if I can find out a few things to try and help. (Plus everyone here is so supportive ...... makes me feel better!)
You see ..... not being there, day to day, leaves me feeling really anxious and worried that I'm not being observant about things ..... that I somehow need to help Mum out more ...... not quite sure how I can, mind you ....... followed by anxious guilt trip thing! And the Panorama programme suddenly jolted me into thinking about the implications for my brother ...... oh boy!
Anyhow ...... I shall read the factsheets and contact a solicitor and see what can be done.
Thanks once again
Elaine
 

Lila13

Registered User
Feb 24, 2006
1,342
Me too, being more anxious because I am not there. Not that my mother wants me to be there full-time. (The only thing she wants me to do full-time now is to answer the phone.)

Lila



ElaineMaul said:
..... not being there, day to day, leaves me feeling really anxious and worried that I'm not being observant about things ..... that I somehow need to help Mum out more ...... not quite sure how I can, mind you ....... followed by anxious guilt trip thing!



Elaine
 

kuulteach

Registered User
Apr 2, 2006
3
cheshunt
the right and wrongs of selling house............
At first I thought same as most ....well it wasn't mine anyway when it came to selling my mum's house to pay for her care...........before she was ill my mum intended to leave house et al to her 4 daughters........now estate will be used to pay for her care........... the thing is she would / will never benefit from sale of house (on her future demise) so when NHS expect you to sell house as your parent is SELF FUNDING what they are really saying is ............ give up expected inheritance ............. project this forward to your old age .......... and your children's old age ..... all been buying own homes .......... just to return to goverment bodies.....remind you of surfdom! I call it the VET SYNDROM put you on a guilt trip ..would you let this poor doggie sufer for the sake of an very expensive bill - and you cough up the required dosh.

My advice is to stick your parents house in childrens names, you will have the inheritance to top up anything that social services won't provide, you kinda get best of both worlds. My sisters and I are too late for this, another thing her estate will give her about 6 years care. After that she will rely on state, who I am told will not guarantee that she will be able to be funded in her care home - since it specialises in dementia (cost £775) their contribution will need topping up by a significant amount.

So, get house in your name, so as to control future welfare of your parents
 

Michael E

Registered User
Apr 14, 2005
619
Ronda Spain
I do think you need to talk to the Alzheimer's help line about the legal situation.

for what it is worth I put some properties I have into our joint names so that if anything happened to me then at least Monique would own half of them.... re death duties et al....

It is a very simple procedure although you need to talk to the help line people at Land Registry. It is a single form and a payment of £35. The 'family' type form is to regularise situations where there are a husband and wife partnership, or family situations like yor brother, where for some reason the property has ended up in one name.... No money passes hands - there is no sale - it simply allows for another person to become the part owner - for no payment....

(Because he has helped with mortgage payments, rates whatever although the reason why is not asked on the form)


What I think it would do for your brother is to make the house 50% his. His home.
I suspect if the house is jointly owned then your brother would have security of tenure....


Be careful with what I have written - I am not a lawyer and I only checked things out for our particular circumstances..

Michael
 
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