95K Care Home Fee's

Discussion in 'End of life care' started by booziefluziesuzie, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. Xeenies

    Xeenies Registered User

    May 19, 2014

    Yes I had been thinking the same.

    My concern is access to space, one care home had a combined lounge, kitchen and diner but apart from an outside court yard, that was it!! No other “living” spaces, or private family rooms, or alternative activity rooms, nothing. Weirdly that one was also the SAME price as the posh hotel type ones which still baffles me. I can’t believe they think that’s all my dad deserves or needs.
  2. MrsV

    MrsV Registered User

    Apr 16, 2018
    Hi booziefluziesuzie, post: 1659604

    I totally agree with your sentiments. Its criminal/theft, and in any other walk of life it would be a crime. The local authority stealing a persons home, making them sell it for second rate care. The care home owners are to blame too. They set the price.

    About 10 years ago, before I had ever heard of dementia. I worked for a company that owned 25 Dementia Care Homes. I worked in the financial accounting side of the business, but it became very clear to me from the outset what money grabbers they were. The foreign owners, 3 very rich Indian guys, lived in Dubai, and attended board meetings via conference call. All they were interested in was how many more 'service users' each Home Manager has signed contract with the family of the pwd that week, and given targets. They would take a few service users being paid by the LA, but concentrated more on the ones who had houses to sell - that they could fleece for extortionate weekly fees. They had no interest in the residents, only the money coming in and how many more potential service users there are in the pipleine. The staff (carers) were all on minimum wage, to keep their overheads low. Only the Home Manager was decent salary +- GBP45,000. I was shocked at the greed, and left after a few months, as it depressed me. Its all too common in the moneymaking care home system. Now my own Mum will eventually end up in one of these horrible places.

    People should not have to sell their homes to pay to be cared for because they were unlucky enough to get dementia. Its not an inevitable part of ageing. But it is an epidemic. My GP told me its 1 in 3 of her older patients.

    In my opinion Dementia Care Homes should be nationalized, paid for from NI contributions and ring fenced by the NHS. That would stop the greedy care home owners charging what they like for basic care.
  3. MrsV

    MrsV Registered User

    Apr 16, 2018
    Hi Jaded n Faded

    I totally agree with you. Its all going to come to a huge crisis in the near future!.

    My generation were encouraged by our parents to get on the property ladder as they did. We expected it to be a struggle, but were told it would be worth it in the end, safe in the knowledge of having a nice house, and something to pass on to our children. We had our families, settled down and saved for a rainy day. Then along came personal pensions. We were all encouraged to take one out via our workplace, or the banks would try to get you to sign up for one. So we did, thinking we were going to be a little better off when we retired. At age 30 retirement seemed a lifetime away. Fast forward a few decades, and we found out we were all ripped-off, the great contracted-out scandal and our State Pension would be greatly reduced now. So our retirement plans will suffer greatly and not the dream the pension salesman painted. No retirement at 60 for a woman, and a double whammy - the WASPI women are told they cant get their state pension until they are 66 now.

    Then our children are at the age where they would like to buy their own home (like Mum and Dad), but the deposits are impossible to achieve, what 30yr old has GBP20,000 deposit for a basic house that needs tons of work. We start thinking, well at least my children will have their inheritance when I go. They should receive enough for a deposit for a house from the same of ours when we pass.

    Then dementia happened! Mum's house will no doubt be taken from us to pay for care that in my opinion should be free, paid for by the NHS and our lifetime of NI Contributions. Its possible that we could get dementia, and our house be taken to pay for care as well.

    I'm tempted to say to my children, don't bother buying a house, rather build up your pension instead, and spend everything, because if you have a house the government will take it off you if you get dementia. But if you rent your home its free. Its a disgrace, the UK government should hang its head in shame at the way it treats its elderly and vulnerable citizens. Who have paid into the system their entire lives. For what? to be fleeced at the end of life.

    Sorry I'm really disgruntled today and need to vent :(
  4. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    South coast
    #44 canary, Sep 18, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
    My mum was in a care home that was shabby, had few facilities and an outside courtyard garden.
    My OH has been in respite in a nursing home that has a hotel type vibe and a lovely garden.

    They both cost similar amounts, even though nursing homes are proportionally more expensive because nursing wages are higher than carers wages. How do they manage it? Well, they cater for different residents. My OH is in cognitive decline, but he is never confused about where he is, can go out without getting lost, and understand where and why he is there. His problems are mostly physical - he needs regular catheterisation, falls a lot, has difficulty walking and bad hand tremor which makes many tasks impossible . He is typical of the type of residents who live there. Although they accept mild dementia it was made quite clear to me that they specialise in physical problems and if the dementia was more advanced they could not take him. They would not accept him if he insisted on going out and then got lost, if he was resistant to care, if he became aggressive, or exhibited challenging behaviour.There are not many nurse/carers on duty there - I think maybe three - and the residents are often left on their own because they know to press the button to summon help when required.

    My mum on the other hand, was physically fit when she move into her care home, but had moderate dementia. She was in a dedicated dementia unit and all the residents had few nursing needs, but all had moderate to severe dementia. Mum exhibited all the things that OHs home would not accept. They needed someone to watch over them all the time, day and night, so there were far more staff on duty all the time (more than double the number in OHs place) and they were not left unattended - even at night they were checked regularly. Although they were carers they were more highly trained in dementia than most carers.

    This means that in mums care home a far higher proportion the money was spent on carers, but in OHs there there was less spent on wages, so more could be spent on the building and facilities - which were actually used by the residents.

    Edited for clarity
  5. AliceA

    AliceA Registered User

    May 27, 2016
    Just been to one as I need respite when I have a radio therapy treatment in December. I felt they were short staffed. We rang but ended up phoning to be let in. The manager was with a social worker as someone was being moved on. It was not a nursing home, so that is a possibility, an unwanted one.

    Perhaps we have been spoilt with the one we used got respite.
    This seemed dark, people were sitting in rows. The dining area seated perhaps eight, others ate at the chair they all had low tables. We asked the senior carer who showed us around about people being able to stay in their room, they could but it was best they were down stairs because meals were down there. They could return when a Carer could take them we met the Manager, she was doing her best she was likeable. She gave me good advice. I came home, my daughter said how lovely I had got his room, the facilities so much better than the home.
    I felt my resolve strengthen, he slept as worn out. I ate then he woke, we had a debate as he had to work out if it were logical to to use the toilet. I suggested it was a good idea, he then decided to. I cleaned him.
    The time taken was quite long.
    So back to drawing board.
    Like Canary I need a house to live in, so funds will not last long. I am still waiting on care package.
    I will try to continue. So back to drawing board.
  6. Sirena

    Sirena Registered User

    Feb 27, 2018
    Just to provide some balance, they aren't all like this. My mother's care home is independent, and the owner works in the CH and knows the residents. All the senior staff have been there for many years and it genuinely feels like they provide a proper home for the residents. And fees are reasonable (in CH terms).
  7. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    North Manchester
    Low staff turnover at all levels is a good indicator of a well managed home.
  8. notsogooddtr

    notsogooddtr Registered User

    Jul 2, 2011
    Do you really think that those who rent don't pay in to the system?None are working,paying tax and NI?My parents thought it better to buy a house because in the end it's cheaper.Most mortgages in our day were for 25 years,rent is for ever.There are certainly issues with the funding of social care but don't blame those who for many reasons rent their homes
  9. Duggies-girl

    Duggies-girl Registered User

    Sep 6, 2017
    I agree with that @notsogooddtr We bought our own house and in the long run it has cost us far less than renting and the house is worth far more than we ever paid out for it over the years.

    People who pay rent on council houses pay back far more into the system in the way of rent than any homeowner with little chance of saving as their rent increases over the years and will continue to increase until they die or need a care home..

    Personal circumstances don't always allow people to accrue savings or pensions either. It only takes some kind of hardship such as illness or redundancy to mess with one's future finances.

    I don't know what the answer is though.
  10. Mouse2014

    Mouse2014 Registered User

    Mar 9, 2014
    We’re in Scotland .
    The Local Authorities in Scotland pay the personal and nursing care costs which for our LA were £1150 per 4 weeks
    Mum paid £897 per week for accommodation/food. During her 3 years we paid £146,000 LA £53000.

    We Would have paid £209,000 if LA didn’t help. We didn’t get AA as the council were paying personal care costs. Used pension,savings and house sale money.

    It was helpful that Mum was self funding from the sale of her house because we could choose where she was living rather than being forced into somewhere unsuitable. It does still stick in my throat though
  11. Xeenies

    Xeenies Registered User

    May 19, 2014
    Thank you for everyone’s replies. These really help. I’ve found a great care home, specialist dementia and not super posh but in a nice area. Now we pray for a vacancy to arise.

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