95K Care Home Fee's

Rosettastone57

Registered User
Oct 27, 2016
1,150
Actually this IS in Sussex (it's a dementia care home, if you need dementia + nursing that does cost more). I believe the LA rate is only about £450. If it was £900 my mother's care home would still be accepting LA clients - they stopped accepting them a few years ago because the LA no longer pays enough for the standard of care they want to provide.

When my mother's money runs out (if she's still alive) she will have to go wherever the LA decides, I won't be paying a top up.
My mother-in-law paid £1350 a week last year in Kent ,bordering with London. There was no nursing care, but it was a new home, hence no doubt the cost. We had to find somewhere quickly and this one had vacancies. We were pleased with the care provided though. The LA would only pay upto £500. Mother in law passed away before the LA got involved
 

AliceA

Registered User
May 27, 2016
2,626
I wish it was only £3400 a month in
Sussex! Most homes minimum £1200-£1400 per week! LA rates no more than £900 so if you don’t go with their choice the top ups are huge!!
Our county is claiming it pays £478.24 including the persons contribution so the top up is impossible to meet the local carehome fee.
 

Cazzita

Registered User
May 12, 2018
535
Hi - I feel for you. Mum's paying over £1600 per week and has been for the last 2.5 years. Work that out and it's scary! You would need to earn over £100k pre tax to afford it.
Thankfully downsizing a few years before dementia struck meant Mum had an apartment and savings.
She wanted to leave her estate to me, her only child, but I suggested she left it to my only child instead, her only Grandchild. She readily agreed.
Mum was happy and really thought she would be able to make a big difference to my daughter's life with this inheritance - and it would certainly have helped my daughter hugely.
Pre-dementia I had to talk quite sternly to Mum as she was not spending on herself because she wanted my daughter to have as much as possible. As others have said, I think it is a generation thing.

When Mum first needed a CH it was important that it was somewhere that looked nice for Mum and met my criteria in terms of efficiency and care. Now, I don't think Mum would notice, providing the staff were caring and kind - but I do not want to move her from the little that she still knows. I have carefully managed and topped up Mum's savings and they will last until Easter, the flat is in the process of being sold, which will buy about 2.5 years more I think. The stage Mum is at now, I think we have enough to see her through.

If Mum knew all this she would be absolutely heartbroken that all the scrimping and saving when she and my lovely Dad were younger will not be a legacy to help those she loves. Also, that a lifetime's work and saving could be chomped through so quickly, through an illness that is no fault of hers.
Just heartbreaking and so wrong :(
 

Cazzita

Registered User
May 12, 2018
535
I think the cost of care - and that you have to pay yourself - comes as a shock to many. As people are living longer, there is often a need to fund care for several years and often this means selling 'the family home' rather than passing it on to children on death.

This will surely have repercussions in the future. Young people are already struggling to get on the housing ladder and they are unlikely to receive a big chunk of money when their parents die, as has been the case in the past. Add to that the fact that many young people do not have any sort of work pension and don't save any money.... These same young people will be paying taxes to pay for care for their parents as needs - and numbers - increase too. Phew.

As bad as things are now, I think a bigger crisis is looming.

(We're all doomed. Doomed, I tell you!)
We are all doomed, for sure!
 

charlie10

Registered User
Dec 20, 2018
394
Hi @Canadian Joanne , it sounds like Canada have some good arrangements in place with the costs of nursing homes. Can I ask (if you know!) what the rules are regarding self-funding? Are the savings allowances similar, and the rules on selling your house?

Just wondered. It would be interesting to hear 'the rules' in other countries and how they compare to here...
I don't know a lot about care for Dementia over here (NZ), although I have researched a lot for the UK and, of course, gained valuable insight from the forum. What I have gleaned from a little research (I suddenly thought I ought to know the position here, as we're both getting older, and having family members (UK) struggling with dementia tends to polarise the mind :rolleyes:) is that there is not the same duty of care on authorities that we have in the UK. The local council has no input, it seems to be charities and the District Health Boards that are the 'go-to' organisations, but from what I understand talking to people with pwds it falls very much to them to cope.

Also the financing is different.....there is no splitting off finances with couples:

"If your parent has a partner, their income and assets are included in the assessment. This applies even they consider each other’s assets to be separate property. A partner is defined as being legally married, in a civil union, or in a de-facto relationship."

"
Two asset thresholds apply:

  • Threshold A: $218,423
  • Threshold B: $119,614
Threshold A includes all assets. Threshold B excludes the family home and one car.

Threshold A will apply for single people and couples who are both in residential care.

Couples with one person in residential care can choose either Threshold A or Threshold B.

The term asset includes cash and savings, property and possessions.

the average house price is approx $650k so there are an awful lot of self-funders (to convert to sterling I roughly halve it).

It has made me think hard about how to organise our finances in the future 'just in case'', knowing that even if we moved back to England we would not be eligible for health care for 2 years. It was only when I was talking to a friend who works in Age Concern that I found out that family members can't step back and leave it to the authorities.....I'm a little jealous of the NHS, imperfect and struggling as it is :( Still working on unpicking the system here.....gets confusing when I've got the UK system in my mind :confused:
 

charlie10

Registered User
Dec 20, 2018
394
Googling a bit more now Ive got the bit between my teeth.....if you're assessed as needing a CH and can enter one contracted to your DHB the fee is capped (in my area about $1100 a week).....but I suspect the problem is, as in the UK, finding a suitable CH that isn't purely private

Do any other countries follow the 'duty of care'system like the UK? I remember reading some years ago about Germany making families legally responsible for their elder members.....
 

Pete1

Registered User
Jul 16, 2019
473
In Scotland it is free....which makes England's arrangements even stranger.
 

Jamesw46

Registered User
Sep 11, 2019
34
I feel sorry for the mums and dads that have been encouraged to spend their money from the sale of their home that is then used to fund a larger family home for sons and daughters perhaps with a granny annexe feeling that they will be looked after and then find themselves shortly after being carted to a care home with no funds to buy better care
 

Sirena

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
2,042
My mother-in-law paid £1350 a week last year in Kent ,bordering with London. There was no nursing care, but it was a new home, hence no doubt the cost. We had to find somewhere quickly and this one had vacancies. We were pleased with the care provided though. The LA would only pay upto £500. Mother in law passed away before the LA got involved
Yes, there are non-nursing Dementia CHs round here which charge about £1200 pw - often the new 'posh' ones. But equally there are others like my mother's which are only £800. Actually she has one of the cheapest rooms - lovely room, but no ensuite. Pointless paying for an ensuite which would mean nothing to her, she needs help and prompting from a carer, there is a bathroom a few steps across the hall.

You can see why so many CHs no longer accept LA clients when the rate is so low. I don't know if my mother's CH will agree to keep her on at the LA rate - she will have been there nearly 5 years by that point. I'm hoping she doesn't outlive her funds so I don't have to find out.
 

Jaded'n'faded

Registered User
Jan 23, 2019
597
High Peak
I don't know a lot about care for Dementia over here (NZ), although I have researched a lot for the UK and, of course, gained valuable insight from the forum. What I have gleaned from a little research (I suddenly thought I ought to know the position here, as we're both getting older, and having family members (UK) struggling with dementia tends to polarise the mind :rolleyes:) is that there is not the same duty of care on authorities that we have in the UK. The local council has no input, it seems to be charities and the District Health Boards that are the 'go-to' organisations, but from what I understand talking to people with pwds it falls very much to them to cope.

Also the financing is different.....there is no splitting off finances with couples:

"If your parent has a partner, their income and assets are included in the assessment. This applies even they consider each other’s assets to be separate property. A partner is defined as being legally married, in a civil union, or in a de-facto relationship."

"
Two asset thresholds apply:

  • Threshold A: $218,423
  • Threshold B: $119,614
Threshold A includes all assets. Threshold B excludes the family home and one car.

Threshold A will apply for single people and couples who are both in residential care.

Couples with one person in residential care can choose either Threshold A or Threshold B.

The term asset includes cash and savings, property and possessions.

the average house price is approx $650k so there are an awful lot of self-funders (to convert to sterling I roughly halve it).

It has made me think hard about how to organise our finances in the future 'just in case'', knowing that even if we moved back to England we would not be eligible for health care for 2 years. It was only when I was talking to a friend who works in Age Concern that I found out that family members can't step back and leave it to the authorities.....I'm a little jealous of the NHS, imperfect and struggling as it is :( Still working on unpicking the system here.....gets confusing when I've got the UK system in my mind :confused:
Thanks for posting this @charlie10

Wow - that seems very harsh! To count a couple's assets rather than just those of the PWD is just madness! Surely this will lead to a lot of couples being forced to separate or get divorced just to protect the spouse from becoming homeless/bankrupt? Is there no disregard when a spouse is living in the family property?
 

charlie10

Registered User
Dec 20, 2018
394
@Jaded'n'faded I've only recently started to think about things from our point of view....with 2 family members at home with dementia all my research so far has been focused on the UK. I was shocked when a friend who works for Age Concern here told me it is quite different from the UK....I was obviously being very naive (and hopeful!). I'm now looking into the tenants in common thing......and maybe I'll have to suggest to my husband we divorce and live in sin ;):p Of course our other option is to not get dementia.....:rolleyes:
 

Xeenies

Registered User
May 19, 2014
77
Our county is claiming it pays £478.24 including the persons contribution so the top up is impossible to meet the local carehome fee.
That’s crazy! So fully funded private placements effectively subsidise that insane low price to others detriment!
 

Wifenotcarer

Registered User
Mar 11, 2018
267
Central Scotland
In Scotland it is free....which makes England's arrangements even stranger.
I wish this was true, but unfortunately the Scottish Government only pays for the 'Personal Care Element' of the care home costs. For example our bill is in total £896 per week, of which the SG pays £177 and I pay £719 on OH's behalf. However if we were self funding in England OH would retain £88+ higher rate Attendance Allowance towards his care costs, but this is not paid to Care home residents in Scotland as the DWP has ruled that they are already in receipt of public funding for these costs. So the reality is that Scottish Care Home Residents are only approximately £88 better off than their counterparts in England.
 

AliceA

Registered User
May 27, 2016
2,626
That’s crazy! So fully funded private placements effectively subsidise that insane low price to others detriment!
This is what I understand, it has been going on a long time. I feel it is unfair. I think that the county should negotiate a fair price for all its residents. They do Pre buy commissioned beds.

One place I was told to consider takes all ages of adult who have mental health problems and need a secure setting. When I asked if older people were housed in a dedicated unit I was told that is the aim but it depended of bed space and the symptoms. I felt this too vague a policy for me.

Another said the adjoining county used them, this other county were up front and better payers too. How come one county pays almost twice the price of another. The council tax is very similar.

We are a small island we need transparent national policies.

Most people are living in fools paradise regarding social care. A good friend felt proud they had a good income and savings, she soon became worried as funds were draining away rapidly.
Many who think they are self funders soon realise that money does run out faster than imagined. One has to watch for the extras some places put on. Our friend's husband had a 'proper' shave, an outside barber had come in and charged £17 for a wet shave. My friend was not happy!
Another said her mum went into a hotel type, it cost £45000 for 6 months. She reckoned the care was not up to scratch the place paid compensation. I did not enquire to the facts, the woman a professional carer was too upset. She used to call in early morning, sometimes her mother had breakfast before her teeth were in.
Another told me how places advertised outings as part of the life style, she found her mother never had a chance to go. The mini bus only could take four at a time. Many have a Carer per person on trips.
The same with ensuites, many soon find they need help and prompting so really a commode works better.

We need to be very vigilant. We must not be sold gloss that pleases our eyes but is beyond the sight and needs of those with dementia.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
11,300
South coast
The thing is that councils have a fair bit of leaway as to council tax rates and then how theey spend it.

When we last had communication from the council about how they had spent their council taxes (a lovely glossy publication) they were proud to announce increases in spending on education, policing and roads, but when I looked to see how much was being spent on social care there was hardly any increase at all. I live in an area where lots and lots of houses are being built so the local population is rising considerably and it is also an area with one of the highest proportion of elderly people.
I dread to think what will happen once OH needs residential care as I am living in the house and we will not be self-funded
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
11,300
South coast
We need to be very vigilant. We must not be sold gloss that pleases our eyes but is beyond the sight and needs of those with dementia.
That is so, so true. Unfortunately many of the care homes bring in these extra facilities and glossy extras because they know that relatives will be attracted to them.
It is too easy to think about what we would like, or what our PWD would once have liked, when looking at places. When asked I always say - look beyond the decor - dont instantly dismiss the shabby places - look at the care given, not the surroundings - but to many people the appearances are of high importance.
 

Sirena

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
2,042
That is so, so true. Unfortunately many of the care homes bring in these extra facilities and glossy extras because they know that relatives will be attracted to them.
It is too easy to think about what we would like, or what our PWD would once have liked, when looking at places. When asked I always say - look beyond the decor - dont instantly dismiss the shabby places - look at the care given, not the surroundings - but to many people the appearances are of high importance.
Yes exactly, the residents are not interested in the gloss or most of the 'facilities'. They just want warmth, comfort and good care.

And so true what Alice said about the ensuite, which is why my mother doesn't have one - she would have got no use out of it and it would have cost an extra £200 a week. She has a sink in her room and there are multiple well equipped bathrooms. She is only ever in her room to sleep, during the day she's always downstairs.