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28 Days notice

Wildflowerlady

Registered User
Sep 30, 2019
279
Hi and hope everyone is keeping well.
My sister has called me this morning as dads Care Company rang her and have told her they have now contacted Adult Social Care and given them 28 days notice telling them they can no longer care for dad we assume after that time. Dad is continuing to be very verbally abusive to his carers shouting at them, refusing some care not eating his lunch etc. Dad threw a plastic beaker at one carer the other day as she was going into his kitchen leaving carer to pick up the sharp shards and mop up as beaker was full. Dad has also refused care on some of his bed calls leaving carer to call sister who fortunately has managed to talk dad round accepting most of his bed routine but he has refused his pad check on occasions.
Crisis Team had only been seeing dad last month and dad had refused suggestion of Respite Care and we were told that they felt dad had capacity therefore they didn't take things any further and everyone was left to carry on dealing with dad. I know some carers do find dad more difficult than others but to be honest dad can still be off with the ones he has more 'respect' for.
We along with Care Company are now awaiting notification as to what happens next. If dad refuses to go into Respite Care where I assume a better assessment can be made will the next step be that Adult Social Care will apply for some legal requirement to force dad into a CH or some sort of assessment unit is this what the 28 days notice is for?.
I feel very mixed about all this because when dad is behaving ok I feel really sad to think he could be forced from his home and everything that is still familiar to him but equally I know that dad is getting worse and that his refusal of some of his personnel care will impact on his general wellbeing. Dad is also not eating much beyond breakfast carers are heating his meals up if he says he will have one but mostly when done he changes his mind and meals are thrown away he is also putting half eaten bits of cakes in drawers or tissue box.
Sister has just called me again apparently ASC have told her they don't know what the Care Company expect and their suggestion is that we contact dads GP and ask that the MH Team come out to dad again with a view to having dad admitted to a facility that has a unit that can make an assessment and if necessary make a legal request for this to happen.
My sister is still hoping given the current climate with Covid 19 that dads care can continue at home and that perhaps ASC will try a different Care Company. In a ideal world yes but I can't see the issue of dad and his reluctance with carers or covid going away anytime soon. I am now trying to get through to GP for a callback. Have updated my post my sister has spoken with care company again and they have said they don't think the MH Crisis Team will be able to get a section order on my dad to go into a unit for a two week assessment I feel we are going in circles. GP is now closed for the afternoon for staff training.
Any advice appreciated.
 
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canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
13,964
South coast
Hello @Wildflowerlady . I am sorry to hear of this although I must say that I am not surprised, in fact what surprises me is that the care company has gone on as long as it has.

What happens next depends on Social Services. I know that your sister wants your dad to stay at home, come what may, but I really cant see any other care company being willing to take your dad on with care at home. IMO he is long overdue for a care home. I dont know how the SW will achieve getting him into a care home - they might just conclude that he has lost capacity and go for it, or there might have to be a more circuitous route. I think you will just have to wait and see. I cant remember, do you have a care home in mind for him?
 

Bunpoots

Volunteer Host
Apr 1, 2016
4,957
Nottinghamshire
Hi @Wildflowerlady

First let me say I completely understand you not wanting your dad to go into a carehome in these times but, like @canary, I can’t really see care at home working any longer.

In a carehome the carers will be able to re-visit your dad every few minutes until they find him in a more co-operative mood, something which visiting carers don’t have the luxury of doing. They used to have to do this for my dad and this was one of the reasons he didn’t return to his own home.

I hope whatever happens it’s a smooth transition for you all. I have my fingers crossed!
 

Wildflowerlady

Registered User
Sep 30, 2019
279
Thank you @canary and @Bunpoots my sister has had more correspondence with Care Company and they have said they wanted to hear what sister was told as in straight from 'the horses mouth' so to speak I get the impression the Care Company is not happy at all with ASC they have struggled with dad and his attitude towards his carers for quite a long time and most likely some might be saying they don't want to have him on their Rota.. Dads Care Company has been coming out to dad for around 4 years and four times daily so they do know him well enough and on the whole the carers have been doing a good job for him its not been easy. My sister and I have got to know most of them quite well seen some stick with the job but a few have left for pastures new pay not great.
ASC have confirmed with Care Company that this has to go through dads GP now and that the GP needs to ask the Crisis Team to have dad sectioned if he won't agree to go in for assessment himself but if they can't do that then they meaning Care Company will have no alternative but to serve 28 days notice which I can only presume that ASC are not happy to accept yet.
 

Wildflowerlady

Registered User
Sep 30, 2019
279
Hello @Wildflowerlady . I am sorry to hear of this although I must say that I am not surprised, in fact what surprises me is that the care company has gone on as long as it has.

What happens next depends on Social Services. I know that your sister wants your dad to stay at home, come what may, but I really cant see any other care company being willing to take your dad on with care at home. IMO he is long overdue for a care home. I dont know how the SW will achieve getting him into a care home - they might just conclude that he has lost capacity and go for it, or there might have to be a more circuitous route. I think you will just have to wait and see. I cant remember, do you have a care home in mind for him?
Hi @canary
We were told by ASC a few weeks ago of two local Care Homes that took LA clients dad will have two pensions but still couldn't afford to be fully Self Funding as has no home as in rented Council House. We haven't visited the homes although when I spoke with them both could allow a little limited look around they also sent me their brochures. Both homes are pretty close to where dad currently lives one is walking distance for sister a drive for me for both but not too far.
We didn't go any further as Crisis Team were not willing to go against dads wish to stay at home he clearly oblivious to how his behaviour is affecting everyone. One home actually called me just over around two weeks ago but I had to say that as yet we cannot take things further so presume at that time they did have space still and are the closest home to where he currently lives.
 
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Wildflowerlady

Registered User
Sep 30, 2019
279
Hi @Wildflowerlady

First let me say I completely understand you not wanting your dad to go into a carehome in these times but, like @canary, I can’t really see care at home working any longer.

In a carehome the carers will be able to re-visit your dad every few minutes until they find him in a more co-operative mood, something which visiting carers don’t have the luxury of doing. They used to have to do this for my dad and this was one of the reasons he didn’t return to his own home.

I hope whatever happens it’s a smooth transition for you all. I have my fingers crossed!
Hi @Bunpoots Yes I think the fact that the carers in a home would be able to check on dad more regularly would be good and for me is a definite plus point for dad going into 24/7 care. I have a few other worries lingering in my head which may be unfounded such as winter coming and concerns he might get to the point of wandering out of his home although he hasn't attempted that yet. Dad has no bladder or bowel control and although he has a catheter he can't drain himself and although he used to change his pads on occasion he no longer does that so potentially can be left soiled for quite a while. Its become noticeable dad is struggling with his TV and sometimes it isn't on whereas he was always watching it, he broke one TV a few weeks ago as had clearly thrown something at it.
It has become very difficult with the set times he has for carers coming in regards dads eating/drinking pad and catheter emptying and dad doesn't think to get himself anything so mostly he is not eating much after his breakfast. Dad is already very slim and to be honest his weight is worrying. I know in my heart he does need 24/7 care so just hoping that Crisis Team and everyone else can push to get dad the care he needs.
 

jennifer1967

Registered User
Mar 15, 2020
1,285
Southampton
its looks like they are playing ping pong with each other carer agency and asc with your dad in the middle. they need to commit and do something instead of waiting for the others next move. he really needs 24/7 care and i think you have known that for a while but your sister is the stumbling block. in the carehome, they can keep going back, theres not set time to do things, if he wants something to eat at 8pm he can have it there. its more flexible and carers 24/7 so doesnt matter when he does things and they can make sure hes changed and drained[ no pun intended]. its time you looked after yourself and your husband. he can have some familiar things around him in his room at the care home.you will be down on yourself but you have done more than you are able to do and your dad needs more now. heartbreaking jenny
 

Wildflowerlady

Registered User
Sep 30, 2019
279
So hopefully ball is rolling again :rolleyes:. Senior Nurse from GP surgery called me back following my call today and said she will put an urgent referral to the Crisis Team regarding dad she felt quite disappointed that we were having to keep going through this as dad did have the Crisis Team out in June/July and again last month. I have spoken with Care Company to inform them and they really have had enough and cannot understand why it was concluded that dad had capacity on the last visits they made.
I know from attending some evenings run by the society in our area early on in dads dementia that determining capacity or loss of is a tricky thing and just because someone might not think a wise decision on PWD part it might still be good enough for capacity to be seen/accepted. I said I expect some of the girls are a bit wary of going into dad now and she yes they were.
I visited dad today after his lunch carer had been and gone and again dad has not had a hot dinner just trifle and a small cake his pad dirty but she obviously did manage to get him changed and empty catheter bag without any incident.
I took dad another trifle and a couple of bottles of his jersey milk and a few other bits and tried to see if dad would like to perhaps pick some meals that he would actually eat from his WF brochure but gave up as he was getting frustrated so I just ordered what he used to eat. The meals I got from the supermarket last week had to be frozen before they went out of date as he wouldn't even try them. Dad wasn't in a good mood eventually started on his latest repetitive subject 'money' said where has your husband put my wallet I can't find it and have looked everywhere all over the house. I said my partner hasn't seen him recently or been in his home ( the last time was just before March lockdown ). Your husband has taken my wallet and gone to town and taken all my money out from the bank he started to get angry. I suppose I should have tried to wiggle out of replying but was difficult so just said the truth which was he hadn't been in dads house and even if he had he wouldn't touch dads wallet to which dad said well go away but not in those words. I decided at that point to just leave as I do find it upsetting even though I know he cannot help it. No doubt he will bring subject up again as it seems this is his latest worry but all absolutely unfounded. :rolleyes:. My sister says dad was going on about his bank account the other day she showed him what he has on her mobile as she can do online banking and only one person was allowed we asked that dad still gets a statement sent to him as at one point bank stopped sending.
Dads money is safe but he has no concept of what he actually has despite telling him he is ok for money and doesn't need to worry. Dads eventual funeral expenses will mostly come from his account as his insurance policy is a pitiful amount as was mums.
My sister has been co-operative this past couple of weeks and has been updating etc which is great but I find it really strange and rather confusing given her behaviour towards me the last 16-17 months. Sister is like Mrs. Jekyll and Hyde I just cannot understand her its only a few weeks ago she was screaming at me.
I have even wondered if my sister has signs of dementia herself as she is so volatile has no empathy for me or my partner who is struggling with his health. Sister cannot seem to see anything that anyone else would think is reasonable where I am concerned in my care and time that I can give to dad as its never enough in her eyes.. Having said that I am grateful for whatever reprieve I am currently getting from her.
Perhaps the reality of what may happen soon is actually becoming a relief to her although she still appears from what she says is that perhaps dad can still be cared for at home but with different carers she even mentioned that perhaps adaptions to his home suggested on last visits from Crisis Team is still a possibility although that makes no sense to me. If I were skeptical maybe she wants me to be the driving force to getting dad into a CH and then blame me afterwards?
 

Hayley JS

Registered User
Feb 20, 2020
197
Fingers crossed for you that it's third time lucky with the crisis team, your dad really needs to be in a care home. This may sound harsh, but I really wouldn't bend your head trying to work out what goes on in your sisters mind. She's been awful to you over a long period of time and is extremely unlikely to change. Wishing you all the best
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
13,964
South coast
I cant understand the crisis teams attitude either.
Just make sure you are not left plugging the gaps when the 28 days is over.
 

Sarasa

Registered User
Apr 13, 2018
2,046
I too hope it's third time lucky with the crisis team. I'm also glad you and your sister are getting on a bit better. Is she OK with the idea of a move to a care home, as that is going to be the way forward. If a care company that have been working with your father for years and know him well can't cope I doubt a new one would do any better.
Stick to your guns about not being able to do more than you are, just in case your sister thinks the two of you can manage between you.
 

Weasell

Registered User
Oct 21, 2019
760
Please forgive me as I can’t remember what you said about the finances. But I was just thinking should he have over £27,000 in the bank ,would it be a good idea to pre pay a funeral ? That would bring his money down when assessed?
 

Weasell

Registered User
Oct 21, 2019
760
Sorry brainless moment..
He will already have had his assessment so this idea is no good!
 

Banjomansmate

Registered User
Jan 13, 2019
2,352
Dorset
If the current Care Company are having problems with your Dad’s behaviour it is unlikely SS will be able to find another Company to take him on.
 

Wildflowerlady

Registered User
Sep 30, 2019
279
Sorry brainless moment..
He will already have had his assessment so this idea is no good!
Hi @Weasell
Dad is just a bit below the threshold for full Self Funding so would not be Fully Self Funding for long even if his savings went up a tad more. Dads Financial Assessment for his at home care visits was done at the beginning and just reviewed from office last year without anyone coming out or seeing paperwork/Bank Statements. Dad just has pensions coming in so his financial monthly income has remained pretty much the same. The total in his account has increased over time by about £7,000 but is still below threshold for full care costs. Dads income is purely for his needs he no longer buys gifts/cards.
Sister and I have both discussed on a few occasions about paying out in advance for dads funeral costs as it would be sensible given the costs are always rising however its such a sensitive subject that we feel it would have upset dad to broach it and didn't want to feel we were going behind his back to sort out under the LPA that we have. I am assuming that it wouldn't be classed as a deprivation of assets if we were to go ahead once dad is settled in a CH especially as his insurance policy is so low as to not cover the cost of a funeral. I do actually have the Deed to Burial Plot in my name as I am the younger daughter and seemed sensible at the time. I didn't want to argue over mums funeral so I let sister have what she wanted regarding how the service was arranged music, hymns, reading by her daughter. I did a write up for the eulogy for the vicar which she got to read to approve first and just a couple of bits changed. I did also say that dad was to have a car/limo to take him and us to the funeral as she did wonder if dad could walk there which was ridiculous considering he was 82 years at the time. My partner was taken there by my daughter and her husband so just sister and I travelled with dad. Car/limo will not be necessary when dad goes but he deserved to go to mums funeral in a nice car it felt respectful to him and was what he would have expected.
Mum and dad had expressed their wish to be buried together they didn't want cremation and it was the only thing they said as never discussed funerals. There would still be some significant costs involved regarding plot opening and costs to remove the headstone and storing of etc apart from the obvious costs involving dad so I think it is something we will consider setting up when dad is settled. My mum is actually in a beautiful very small cemetery on land bought behind the main church so pretty close to where we all live and we couldn't have wished for a nicer place for her. I sometimes do wish mum had been more open to discussing things so that she would have seen how lovely it is as I know she didn't want a woodland burial in fact I think she feared it but initially it was a worry to find her somewhere nice. Its a relief that when dads time comes we do at least know where he will go.. I actually broke down in tears on phone when church lady confirmed to me mum could go there as it was just out of their parish by one road however dads mum was already buried in the actual church grounds so mum was allowed at a slightly increased cost.
 

Wildflowerlady

Registered User
Sep 30, 2019
279
Dad clearly thinking about money again this morning has told sister he has been to the bank this morning and drawn out two lots of £800 in two wallets and two bags of half crowns asking how he can divide it, and this is someone that we are told by the crisis team last month has capacity enough to decide whether he stays in his own home despite the care company struggling to the point they now want to give 28 days notice to stop providing his care. Dad hasn't been anywhere of course.
 

jennifer1967

Registered User
Mar 15, 2020
1,285
Southampton
im sure i have read on the forum that funeral plans are seen as legitimate way of using your dads money. that would stop the worry later. maybe you and your sister could plan different parts, maybe she gets the readings and you have the music maybe or combination of the two. thinking of you and hoping that the situation gets settled and you have peace of mind that your dad is being properly cared for jenny
 

Weasell

Registered User
Oct 21, 2019
760
My dad paid and arranged his whole funeral in advance.
He wanted silver cars and picked the funeral casket and every other aspect.
It was so typical of his forward thinking and desire to protect his loved ones from stress.
The Celebrant wanted just one more piece of music to make the service perfect, which we decided on, and needless to say they played the wrong one. If dad was looking on he would would have been laughing!
@jennifer1967 is quite correct paying for a funeral is a legitimate use of his money.
 

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