24 hour live-in care versus care homes.

Plum1108

Registered User
Nov 20, 2009
25
0
There are care providers that provide 24 hour live in carers. Try googling it. I have had a look at several websites as we will eventually have to go down the care home/live in carer route for my mum. I haven't had any direct experience of 24 hour live in care, however, I feel that an elderly person could, potentially be more at risk of abuse than if they were in a care home (however, after watching Panarama this week, that may be completely wrong!) Also, talking to several friends that have relatives in a care home, they said that they became more animated and stimulated from going into a home, as there were lots of people around and things going on!

It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has gone down the 24 hour live in carer route and get some feedback.

Plum
 
Last edited by a moderator:

KingB

Registered User
May 8, 2011
254
0
Berkshire
I took my mum to a lovely care home today for a 4 week trial period (which has to turn to permanent to be honest). We had a few tears and wobbles, but we all know there is no viable alternative. Mum was more alert and capable than I have seen her for months. At home the situation was dire. Dad couldn't cope with the situation and they were both worrying themselves to death over eachother. Yesterday mum was lying in her bed crying to God to let her die. Today she has eaten properly, taken part in a pamper session & had her nails done, joined in a sing-song. She does not really want to be there - but is doing her best to come to terms with it and give a good go.
So what I am saying really is that care home can be a very positive thing. I know for sure that socialising and being occupied is going to do mum the world of good.
I couldnt have stood firm through the tears and begging to be taken home if I had had even a smidge of doubt. Pray God it continues positive!!
If you truly believe a care home is going to work for your relative then stand firm and don't be guilted.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeborahBlythe

Registered User
Dec 1, 2006
9,222
0
New thread

This thread has been created to avoid confusion over the original location yesterday of the first two posts.
 

bucko

Registered User
Jan 28, 2009
785
0
Widnes
24 hour live in care versus care homes

As a full time carer, I live in hope that somewhere there is a person who is a mirror image of the me, who would be prepared to live in and be there for me and my husband should I start to struggle at any time during the day or night with his care, not a 'scheduled' care support network. The unpredictability and nature of dementia makes this so difficult to organise and some ideas such as a PA, live in Nurse or housekeeper is far too expensive and one which I and many others couldn't possibly afford.

Should anyone know how this can be done, please let me know!

One other option I have thought about as an alternative to a live in would be similar to the 'life line' organisation. We have life line, which is great when there is a tumble or fall and I can't pick John up. I know this type of help is there and they are only a phone call away. Wouldn't it be lovely if there was a care organisation that had a bank of carers that you could call on at anytime during the day or night, who could be with you within a short time scale to support the main carer when they find they are in difficulty, either in a domiciliary nature or just as a sitting service when you feel you need to escape, perhaps help for an hour or two at a time, or more depending on the need. I feel this would be a more effective use of care funds.The new 'personalisation' system of care funding is currently being investigated to support my idea, but until the correct funding is allocated I cannot proceed further.

Am I barking up the wrong tree so to speak .... just my ideas. I know I don't want to consider a care home at any point in time, and I get so scared even thinking of this. I've now had personal experience of John having had respite care and he had a bad experience when he was hospitalised, which made me realise the poor standard of care dementia patients get. (All were reported with promises of improvements that would be made). However with what I read and hear through the media makes me shudder, as improvements seem to take such a long time to come about!

I am attending local forums and meetings with different organisations who I know are trying to work with Carers, but it is all so long winded and most probably improvements will be too late in coming for me and my loved one. I know there are others who also want improvements immediately, but in the real world this is too much to ask, we know this. Good news of care homes and hospitals is very limited. I want my loved one to get the kind of care I provide, nothing more, nothing less. Is this care out there somewhere?


June x
 

jennifer_eccles

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
97
0
melksham
One other option I have thought about as an alternative to a live in would be similar to the 'life line' organisation. We have life line, which is great when there is a tumble or fall and I can't pick John up. I know this type of help is there and they are only a phone call away. Wouldn't it be lovely if there was a care organisation that had a bank of carers that you could call on at anytime during the day or night, who could be with you within a short time scale to support the main carer when they find they are in difficulty, either in a domiciliary nature or just as a sitting service when you feel you need to escape, perhaps help for an hour or two at a time, or more depending on the need. I feel this would be a more effective use of care funds.

DEAR GOD HOW I AGREE
 

Biba

Registered User
Jun 3, 2011
4
0
Care at home v Care home

My mother has been slowly declining but vehement about staying put. (in total denial of course). When I realised 24/7 care was needed 2 and a half years ago I interviewed a few home care agencies. They were pricey. Then I asked around and put together my own team of 3 local people who had the necessary skill, one of whom was a retired nurse, and they work brilliantly as a team. I worked with them initially using Oliver James' Contented Dementia to understand what themes Mum might have and we all worked out how to deal with it, hedging the difficult times with imagination and good humour. We have an updateable care plan. We don't go to the clinics any more, they are a complete waste of time and deeply humiliating for Mum. As Mum has deteriorated more recently I have made the decision of a Care Home, plus the money has run out and we need to sell the house. Anyway, this approach may work for some people, and could be a way forward for 'society as a whole' as they say, allowing shared care and more informed involvement. We have been lucky but it has been an amazing time.
 

bunnies

Registered User
May 16, 2010
433
0
I arranged live in carers for my relative. The reason for this was my relative was proudly independent and insistent that no-one was going to make her go into a home. At this stage I already had carers coming in a couple of times a day, and social services (bless em) had decided that this wasn't enough, and said she should have carers coming in four or six times a day. (They could suggest this because she was self-funding, so no expense for SS). I found the option of carers 'popping in' several times a day was useless for my relative, who wouldn't cooperate and the carers that came never had the time to persuade her to do anything eg wash, eat, use the toilet, etc.
So the only remaining options was a care home, or live in carers. Everyone, it seemed to me, was keen to get her into a care home. I felt sorry for her.

I thought at first that a live in carer wouldn't work with someone with dementia, but then I decided to give it a try. I contacted some agencies and eventually set it all up, and she lived with this arrangement for 15 months. My experience was that this is quite a lot of work for the person (me!) arranging it, but if put in the time to keep an eye on everything then it did work well for my relative. The problems are: resistance from the person about having someone in the house; physically setting up a living arrangement for someone in the house; finding a good agency (I hit a few bad ones, and did have to change agencies after 9 months); agreeing arrangements for petty cash and the carer's meals; managing the changeover every three weeks or whatever when a new carer comes; making sure the carer has a good relationship with the health service (I ended up doing most of the liaison with the NHS). Still, I would say it was a good arrangement for my relative for most of that time. I did speak to the carer every day during this period (I lived far away) and visited every two weeks. I also relied a lot on neighbours to keep an eye on things. A few carers were unsuitable, but agencies seem willing to change them if they are. I didn't want the responsibility of employing a carer directly, and then having to find replacements for them, so I chose to use agencies.

It became less appropriate as my relative became more physically disabled. When she had to be hoisted, the agency insisted on there being two carers, and then it became complicated when the second carer came, and it meant using a second agency. I did do this, but then if my relative needed moving at an unpredicted time, it was difficult. I know some people hoist single handed, but most agencies insist you have two people to do it. I felt her health was threatened by having only one carer available. Also at this time her world had shrunk to such a small space, and I didn't feel she was getting enough stimulation from just one live in carer. You never know how much time the carers spend with your relative - they deal with the physical things, but they may not spend time interacting with them. I became worried about her isolation. Also at this point I didn't think she necessarily knew that she was still in her own home. So I took the decision to move her to a nursing home. This move was successful, and I am glad I did it when I did - not earlier, and not later.

Hope this helps.
 

Biba

Registered User
Jun 3, 2011
4
0
Bunnies I share a lot of those experiences and concede it's a lot of work for me to manage the process, on top of running a business. Looking back (Mum's nursing home place starts in August) I'm glad to have given her 'what she wanted' for as long as feasible and have now no qualms about the next step being the right one. I'm glad your relative has settled, and I would say that reading all of these posts the chorus I'd join would be 'don't panic or feel guilty' - a good care home can be absolutely the right place for our loved one.
 

Jancis

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
2,567
0
70
Hampshire
Living at home with strangers

Hi Plum,
My uncle wanted to remain in his own home more than anything in the world. As he could afford to pay for 24/7 live-in care we thought this would be an obvious solution. When I looked into it more deeply I realised it wouldn't work for him because of the shifts required by the live-in carers. He would have been fine perhaps with one person living in - especially if she was female and attractive and made the right kind of fuss over him! But like many of us he was a private person and the thought of having different strange people imposed upon him and 'living' with him in his home for different days of the week/month just didn't seem a good idea for someone with dementia. He's not happy being in a nursing home but at least if there is a problem then there is more than one carer (or even a nurse!) around to share the burden. He knows the care home isn't his "home" but he does have the added stimulation of seeing activity going on with others around him.

I hope you can find your thread again and look forward to hearing from you.
 

Pacucho

Registered User
Hello Plum

I employed live-in carers to help me care for my mum. In my mum's case it was a success because she was able to live at home without the need to go into a care home, which is what she wanted.

There are a couple of good national care agencies I used and if you want details of these please send me a private message. On average the total cost is about £750 per week, and the carers generally stay for around a couple of months or longer depending on the carer.
Regards

Paco
 

KingB

Registered User
May 8, 2011
254
0
Berkshire
To update my earlier post - things did not continue so positive :(
Yesterday's visit was traumatic. She had been upset all day, and was lying on her bed in misery. She begged us to take her home, said she would not stay & would walk out & they couldnt stop her, said if I wouldnt take her home then and there then she never wants to see dad or I again. All pretty much what I would say in her shoes I think. She genuinely believes that when she was at home she was still doing the cooking & clearning and living a normal life, and when I explained that dad at least needed a bit of a rest she said he had already had that (she had no idea that she had only moved in the previous day).
BUT - last week she was lying in bed at home in misery begging me to get her taken away somewhere to be looked after. So I feel she is at least no worse off. Its just a different flavour of misery. I do feel terrible that she is unhappy - but I honestly cant see an alternative. Dad is completely unable to care for her - he can barely care for himself and is doing strange things like trying to unlock the door he has already just opened for me, and straddling the chair the wrong way round. Which we had a laugh about & he assured me he is not going "dotty" too - but......
So I can't see that I could take her home. Dad is adamant that he would not accept going down the 24/7 carer in their own home route - and to be honest I don't think it would work for them.
I am not prepared to take her into my home or move out to live with them. Having only recently packed off our daughter to Uni I really need to spend a bit of time paying some attention to my husband, and I need to work as I am the main earner. Horrible how it feels like I am trotting out excuses - probably more fundamentally I know I am not up to the job of full time caring.
As regards her just walking out - I don't think she can just chose to leave on her own. I spoke to the team leader on duty and she said that because of her diagnosis of Alzheimers they would not be able to let her leave the home without someone to escort her and somewhere to go where she would be adequately cared for. So I think she wont be able to just leave. Of course then that makes me feel bad that she will feel like a prisoner there.
She is on a 4 week trial - so I just hope things settle quickly and that we get to move on to the permanent contract in due course.
However - bleak as yesterday was - I am still grateful that moving in day went so well - and hope we will get back to the positives soon.
Advice from the team leader was to just keep going up there & showing our support even if she just sends us away each time for a while. She expects things to get a bit better within a few days and for mum to settle in over 2 weeks.
Bit of an essay - but I just thought I should update my overly chirpy original post!!
 

branwen

Registered User
Oct 3, 2010
110
0
My parents were BOTH diagnosed with dementia last autumn having been admitted to hospital for assessment for several weeks, after 3-4x daily carer visits failed to improve the situation. I was told they needed 24hr care but my mother refused to consider residential care (she had set her mind on me giving up my job, career, home, friends and life to move back across country and back in with them - something I could not contemplate because of my relationsip with her, even if she had discussed/asked rather than just expecting). As she was deemed to have capacity to make decisions, and I had previously asked about live-in care (which the hospital initially said wouldn't work) the hospital decided to try that. So far (6mnths) it is working. It is expensive (equivalent to top end care home plus their hosuehold expenses on top) but they have a team of the same 4 very good carers (occasional fill-in if someone is on holiday or ill) who work 3 or 4 days a week 12 hr shifts - two day and two night carers. The benefits are they are in their own home, in the village where they've lived for decades with friends and neighbours nearby. They still feel in control - eg my mother can still do her shopping lists so they can decide what food they want. Downside is the cost, and they do get a bit isolated (although they've never been sociable) - my mother is very reluctant to leave the house, and the carers can't leave either one alone, so my father (who does enjoy walking and going out) is a bit bored.
 

KingB

Registered User
May 8, 2011
254
0
Berkshire
Am glad to hear that live in care works well for some because the benefit of being in your own environment must be enormous.
Updating my tale of Care Home - we have swung back to the positive. Today was a lovely visit with plenty of laughs and jokes and a wander in the grounds identifying trees. Mum seems to be making friends with the other ladies, and the staff are very caring and are clearly getting to know her as a person. When it was approaching tea time mum was very keen to get into the dining room in good time and for us to get on our way. I can see that as she settle this will be her world, and I imagine that over time we will become less important on a day-to-day level to her than those immediately around her - which I view as a good thing for her. Big sigh of relief today.
The team leader told me that 30 mins after we left yesterday mum had come out of her room and joined the others to watch some TV. She had gone over to mum to talk to her about whether she was still upset but mum had no recollection of having been that upset.
So now we know that if we have another bad visit (as I am sure we will) then we can draw comfort from the expectation that she will forget all about it very quickly, and that the next visit will not necessarily be the same.
 

Biba

Registered User
Jun 3, 2011
4
0
King B, now I am having fun reading your posts. When I visit Mum - she has care at home 50 miles from me - sometimes the visit is a good thing and sometimes it unsettles her and she gets cross and very upset, usually after 5pm. She can't quite remember who I am now except a smiley lady with a job of some sort and two boys (I in fact have a boy and a girl). When she had a bad day I used to cry and rage all the way home, (and felt guilty for the carers, too) till I'd call later to be told, "oh she's forgotten all about it and we have been round the garden". Thanks Mum. All that angst, and you're FINE!! So now I just do my best to distract her, sometimes it's great and we laugh a lot about absurdities, much repeated. If I feel a bit low afterwards I stick on my favourite CD in the car. I have learned not to take anything personally. I have looked after her myself, and because I now 'assume' the role of carer (and don't expect her to be my 'mum') there's no mother-daughter negative stuff and it's a whole lot easier.

One thing we did do in the early days was to write down her 'story' for her to read if she felt unsettled and lonely. Sometimes though it's better to stay right away from memories and hard-to-understand words, (although we did write it with that in mind) and live in the world of tasty meals, leaves, trees, flowers, colours, music, making pom-poms and teddy bears.
 

KingB

Registered User
May 8, 2011
254
0
Berkshire
Biba you sound very wise - and that world you describe sounds like a happy place.
Visit today was somewhere in the middle of the pendumum swing - mum was fairly talkative but a bit distant and pensive at times. She talks about "when I get home" and "its nice here but I'll be glad to get back to my own home". We neither confirm nor deny and try to pass it off. Feels a bit deceitful but I guess I will have to get used to it. I do have a bit of a suspicion that she was looking at us very hawk-eyed when she said it....
 

bucko

Registered User
Jan 28, 2009
785
0
Widnes
24 hour live in care versus care homes

Hi everyone. I have read with interest all the replies and find them so useful, so thank you so much.

If only I could afford seven hundred and fifty pounds a week, even half of that amount to buy in care, and if I could I would, without hesitation.

One thing for sure, everyone is doing their very best for their loved ones that is so evident .....

June x
 

Plum1108

Registered User
Nov 20, 2009
25
0
It's really interesting to hear the different perspectives of 24 hour live in care. It might be something for mum in the (too near future, I fear) but long term, it sounds like a care home is the only option.

Biba, I know exactly how you feel. Mum can get me so wound up sometimes that I leave her house in a huff, then tears as I feel guilty for getting so mad only to call her when I get home and she's completely forgotten, I've even been there!

Hey, hoy, that's the way it goes.....
 

Biba

Registered User
Jun 3, 2011
4
0
Hi all

The money thing is a total bummer. If only dementia was recognised as the clinical illness that it is, rather than our loved one's, er, 'fault'.

The only thing in my experience that may be of interest is something I have been investigating - via a financial advisor (more money, ching) I discovered you can take out an annuity on a lump sum (ie from the sale of a house or from some savings) and get a return FOR LIFE to meet care home fees which is tax deductable when paid to a registered care provider. There are all sorts of pros and cons as it is basically an insurance policy, and you gamble and lose if loved one dies soon, but it may be worth investigating to allow a little money to go a long way in terms of pay out. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it as it is personal to each person's financial circumstances, but it could bring peace of mind. :cool: x