12 week property disregard refused

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by Sweetie, Dec 19, 2005.

  1. Sweetie

    Sweetie Registered User

    Nov 27, 2005
    13
    North Yorkshire
    Received this morning a response for clarification on refusal of funding from NYCC saying as I arranged to admit my mother to a private EMI home in preference to a place in an EMI home owned and managed by NYCC, and we are having to sell mother's house to pay for this, she will not be a permanent NYCC resident and will not be entitled to the 12 week property disregard.

    This is the first written communication I have received, others being by telephone from mother's care manager which had a completely different interpretation to this.

    I thought the 12 week deferment was "a right" for all residents who didn't have available cash and had to sell their property. The cost of our chosen home is more than the "allowance" but we knew this and were prepared to pay the top-up. However, we are now having to take out a loan to cover all the costs until the property is sold, whenever they will happen. Anyone else had similar experiences?

    Any help appreciated.
     
  2. Meldrew

    Meldrew Registered User

    Apr 28, 2003
    53
    London
    12 week property disregard

    'The value of your home will be disregarded for the first 12 weeks of you requiring permanent residential or nursing home care. It will then be treated as capital and is only disregarded if your partner or, a relative who is aged over 60 or incapacitated or a child aged under 16 years who you are liable to maintain, or a previous partner from who you are separated and is a lone parent occupies it. There is also a discretion to ignore property if it is occupied by someone who gave up their home to be a carer.'
     
  3. Sheila

    Sheila Registered User

    Oct 23, 2003
    2,259
    West Sussex
    Dear Sweetie, hope you ring the helpline, please let us know how you get on, it is a most worrying situation for you all. Thinking of you, love She. XX
     
  4. Sally

    Sally Registered User

    Mar 16, 2004
    114
    London
    local authority responsibilities

    Hi Sweetie,

    You should not have to get a loan to cover the cost of the interim bill, it might take a lot longer to sell the house than 12 weeks anyway so this is not a suitable option. Regardless of whether or not your Mum went into the home NYCC suggested, the local authority are still responsible for her as a vulnerable adult. What most sensible local authorities do is pay the home fees then take their money when the house is eventually sold. This way, the home is not out of pocket which could put your Mum's placement at risk, but the local authority know they will be repaid from proceeds of sale.

    You could write to the local authority and point out that you cannot sustain this loan idea for long and that you are aware that legally they are responsible for your mother and ask how they are acting responsibly if they refuse to cover the homecare fees for now.

    Stand up to them, hard I know when you are stressed already, but if you throw phrases around like 'legal duty of care', 'best interests' etc you may find they back down.

    Hope so!

    Sally
    x x x x x
     
  5. Sweetie

    Sweetie Registered User

    Nov 27, 2005
    13
    North Yorkshire
    12 week disregard

    Hi, I phoned the Alz.helpline on Monday and am still waiting for someone to get back to me.

    Have written back to Soc. Services asking for a copy of their assessment and Panel's decision which they "conveniently" forget to enclose with their letter.
    Also clarification of a couple of statements.

    Once I get these I will keep on at them. I was very sure of my position until I received this letter, what happens to people who have no-one to stand up for them?

    Will keep you posted.

    Sweetie
     
  6. Sweetie

    Sweetie Registered User

    Nov 27, 2005
    13
    North Yorkshire
    Refusal of 12 week disregard & deferred payments

    Hi, well things haven't changed as far as getting money out of North Yorkshire County Council is concerned. I have complained again and just got reply saying that unfortunately there was no available budget to fund care immediately. As a temporary solution, until funding became available the panel offered a temporary placement in a local authority owned home. In the circumstances since you have placed your mother without our assistance permanently in a private residential home, we have no duty to provide the 12 week disregard and remain unable to offer any assistance. She will be responsible for funding her fees in total from beginning of her placement.

    No mention of using the deferred payment until mother's house is sold, and no response to my question asking what they propose to do when her mother has run out at end of February.

    Also complainted to DOH under-secretary for health and received a reply on his behalf setting our the regs which confirmed my understanding - obviously NYCC don't think they have to abide by these rules. Do these people understand how traumatic is would be for the sufferer to move them around from one place to another? - obviously not.
    Current situation is I have now involved mother's local MP (who just happens to be a Conservative so we will see if this makes any difference) and will go back to NY saying I'm not prepared to accept this decision and wish to take further.

    All very well, but in the meantime we are left with paying for care until the house is sold which will mean taking out a considerable loan - if we can get one!

    I'll keep taking the tablets!!!

    Has anyone been come across this before and can give any advice. I did contact Alz. helpline before Christmas and still awaiting a response so will have to look further afield.

    Many thanks
     
  7. Sheila

    Sheila Registered User

    Oct 23, 2003
    2,259
    West Sussex
    Hi Sweetie, hang on in there, don't let the blighters drag you down. Getting your MP involved is a good move. I had to fight for any help with my Mum too. But it was the continual nursing one not the 12 week disregard, so not sure about that, sorry. Thinking of you, love She. XX
     
  8. Norman

    Norman Registered User

    Oct 9, 2003
    4,348
    Birmingham Hades
    #8 Norman, Jan 29, 2006
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2006
    Sweetie
    knowing how these people drag their feet over everything,I would not delay in making a formal complaint.
    There are forms available for this purpose and you can also enlist someone as an advocate.
    Counsel and Care www.counselandcare.org.uk or 0845 300 7585 will give advice and act as an advocate.
    Norman
     
  9. Kathleen

    Kathleen Registered User

    Mar 12, 2005
    639
    West Sussex
    Hi Sweetie

    Could you get a letter from your Mum's GP or consultant stating it would be harmful your Mum's condition to move her in her present state of health.

    That hints at them being responsible for any problems caused by the move and just might help your case too.

    Good luck and keep fighting her corner.

    Kathleen
     
  10. Sandy

    Sandy Registered User

    Mar 23, 2005
    6,847
    Hi Sweetie,

    I don't have any firsthand experience of this particular issue, but based on some previous posts and some Internet searching, I believe that this is still a bit of a grey area legally.

    It might seem galling in the midst of everything that you are going through, but I would consider paying for an hour of a solicitor's time to really get a clear picture of what your mother's rights are. I would try and get in touch with a solicitor that specialises in the affairs of elderly people who would hopefully understand this area of the law inside out.

    Take care,

    Sandy
     
  11. Sally

    Sally Registered User

    Mar 16, 2004
    114
    London
    good advice

    Hi Sweetie,

    I think that Sandy's advice is good re solicitors advice.

    You could simply refuse to pay the bill forcing the local authority to become responsible. I cannot understand why they would not place a charge against the property and pay the bills in the meantime - they will get their money back and this is normal practice for other social services departments. Often, there is simply no other way.

    You as the family have no legal obligation whatsoever to meet the cost of this home. The only problem is that as you say, they may move your Mum if you stop paying. So you are then trading one problem for another as you would have to start arguing for keeping your mother in that home. The best interests line would help here i.e. it is not in your Mum's best interests to be moved around, adds to confusion etc etc.

    Good luck and let us know how you get on.

    Sally
     

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