12 week property disregard and assessment

hilaryd

Registered User
May 28, 2017
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0
Mum's vascular dementia has gone rapidly downhill in the past six months, compounded by various physical problems and several falls. She's been living in her own home with a couple of care visits a day, but ended up in hospital in mid-December with a suspected infection in her leg ulcers. She was then discharged at virtually no notice, with the hospital claiming that her care package was adequate and without further discussion, at which point we had to step in to provide the 24-hour care we felt she needed to keep her safe. All her falls took place in the early morning, hours before her carers were due to visit.

In late December she ended up in hospital again following a series of seizures and general increasing mental and physical frailty. After a couple of nights she was moved to a community bed where she was getting patchy (non-medical) care and getting more and more confused and unhappy. Fearing another decline and/or sudden discharge, we went ahead and found a place for her in a local nursing home, only to be informed by the hospital social workers that she shouldn't be discharged before she'd had an assessment, with the implication that this might affect her eligibility for the 12 week property disregard in respect of her nursing home fees. Having to make a decision on my feet, I said that I'd prefer to avoid anything that would delay her discharge, which the social worker was quite sniffy about. (Mum's own social worker has so far failed to respond to any attempts to contact her about mum's increased needs - we've had just one visit back in September, and a great deal has changed since.)

My question is, has our inadvertent bypassing of procedures, prompted by our bad experiences after the first hospital stay, jeopardised our finances, or can we still get an assessment and/or apply for the disregard retrospectively? Mum will be self funding, but any help with this would of course be very useful!
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
6,306
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Salford
The 12 week property disregard is only an issue if you want a deferred payment agreement (DPA) isn't it? If she's self funding out of capital/assets/cash in the bank then it doesn't matter.
Am I missing something?
K
 

Kikki21

Registered User
Feb 27, 2016
2,270
0
East Midlands
@hilaryd wow very similar to my mum’s case indeed. I’m following your thread with interest.
I suppose you have made your social worker’s life easier by finding the home.

It seems to vary by area but usually hospital social workers deal with discharges but my mum’s own social worker has dealt with matters which I was surprised about. Maybe that is because I kicked up & rang the emergency team when they tried to discharge her before Christmas.
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
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The 12 week property disregard is only an issue if you want a deferred payment agreement (DPA) isn't it? If she's self funding out of capital/assets/cash in the bank then it doesn't matter.
Am I missing something?
K

The disregard comes into play if you have property and have assets below the upper level. You don't need to be getting a dpa.

Discharging yourself from hospital before appropriate assessment would not affect the disregard. The issue is, without an assessment that she requires such care, you're not going to get la assistance.

When you say she will be self-funding, do you mean because of the value of her property? Or because of savings above the £23k upper limit? Because the disregard only comes into play when your other savings drop below that upper limit.

I'm afraid that social workers often but not always really don't understand funding.

I would suggest you push for an assessment for your mother. The home might also be a resource to get this done.
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,036
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Staffs
The CA2014 changed the rules with regard the 12 week Property Disregard. It now only applies if someone has reached the upper threshold for savings when they first go into a Care Home and have asked for Local Authority assistance.

Under the old rules of CRAG a 12 week disregard would come into affect whenever someone reached the upper threshold for savings. This happened even if the someone had been in a Care Home for some time. LA's had long argued that this should not be the case as the disregard should be for those that have unexpectantly (is that a word:confused:) found themselves in the position of having to sell a property rather than those that have sometimes had many years to decide what to do.

The CA2014 does allow the 12 week disregard for someone who is already in a CH if a property has been disregarded in the past but now is not (qualifying relative dies/moves).

If @hilaryd your Mum is self funding then she will not be entitled to the 12 week PD. If her savings are below £23,250 and there is a property to sell then that should change things but obviously a needs assessment has to be carried out first and the LA have to agree that the home you have chosen is suitable for your Mum's needs.

Good luck.

:)
 
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Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,036
0
Staffs
Just noticed that you have said that you have moved your Mum into a Nursing Home. This is going to be more expensive that a Care Home.

A checklist for eligibility for NHS CHC funding should have started at the hospital but probably hasn't in your circumstances so do make sure the NH management are going to start the process for you. Most likely your Mum is not entitled to CHC but should qualify for NHS FNC which pays for the Nursing side of things currently at the rate of £155.05/week. That should be backdated. Some NH's include this in their total price some do not.

As for the 12 week PD bear in mind that the LA will only pay their lowest rate for a NH that can meet your Mum's needs so may not match the price of the one you have chosen. So say their rate is £500/week, they will take your Mum's pensions/benefits to offset that amount so may be left with paying around £300/week. A total of £3,600 for the 12 weeks. That may be a lot to some and not much to others.

If the NH is more expensive than the LA rate the rest has to be paid by someone else including your Mother during the disregard.

:)
 

hilaryd

Registered User
May 28, 2017
84
0
Thanks all - that's really helpful. Mum has a property to sell, but her other assets are just below the threshold. The home seem to be really on the ball and have already mentioned CHC or FNC funding, so I'm sure they will help.

Still no word from any social worker ...

We're aware that the fees are higher, but she really does need the nursing - another care home manager came out to assess her in hospital and said they couldn't provide the level of care she would need. To be honest, we'll be surprised and delighted if she gets beyond 12 weeks, but we just want her to be as safe and comfortable as possible for whatever time she has left. :-(
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,036
0
Staffs
Still no word from any social worker ...
From what you are saying about life expectancy I wouldn't worry too much. There is nothing a SW can do to make your Mum any more safe and comfortable.

Maybe a battle to fight later.;)

Good luck.:)
 

Kikki21

Registered User
Feb 27, 2016
2,270
0
East Midlands
Thanks all - that's really helpful. Mum has a property to sell, but her other assets are just below the threshold. The home seem to be really on the ball and have already mentioned CHC or FNC funding, so I'm sure they will help.

Still no word from any social worker ...

We're aware that the fees are higher, but she really does need the nursing - another care home manager came out to assess her in hospital and said they couldn't provide the level of care she would need. To be honest, we'll be surprised and delighted if she gets beyond 12 weeks, but we just want her to be as safe and comfortable as possible for whatever time she has left. :-(

I really hope you can get this sorted out & thankfully the nursing home are on the ball which must be a relief to you.