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117 aftercare - help please

Karjo

Registered User
Jan 11, 2012
481
good advice from Nitram as always.
we were asked to fund top ups for my Mum's care under section 117. I refused ( and would advise you do the same ) because in our case she has her own assets and I know she would never have expected us to go without whilst she could have funded herself! I think as mentioned before they can now top up themselves, but this is only if there is something available at the LA rate and the patient wants something better.
However it meant Mum lingered in hospital and things got a bit nasty, that horrid sort of nasty that meant I was not sure who the bad guy here was but by the vibes given out I thought it must be me.
However a home came up at the local authority rate so top ups were not an issue. Really it was a disaster however. Mum never settled as she was too much for them to cope with and rejected the whole nursing home environment ( can't blame her really) Eventually evicted and back into an assessment unit for 9 months. Forced out of there into another unsatisfactory environment. Eviction notice served again.
She is now on one to one care which is costing a fortune. (I think shared between LA and CCG though I dont really know, thank goodness I am not paying top ups or Mum as it would get too complicated) I am of course so greatful for this as I am able after so long ( its nearly 4 years now since she was sectioned) able to sleep at night knowing she is as safe as possible.
You have a fight on your hands to be sure, but I think the mental health act states somewhere that the person who is sectioned should not have their discharge delayed due to squables over funding.
BTW we got a lawyer involved when we were asked to pay top ups. it cost £250 but after that the LA kind of backed down and agreed no top ups, but we never had to push it further because a bed became available at LA rate, but I was impressed at how things changed when we got the lawyer.
We found this again when she got evicted the second time and we appointed the same lawyer. We never actually had to even pay the lawyer, we just apponted her again and suddenly,just when I thought Mum would end up in a police cell as a place of safelt, things suddenly came together.
Anyway I dont know what I am really saying here, but in truth Mum and I have been to hell and back with this, but in the end the authorities (whoever they are ) did somehow step up and take responsibility, and for that I am eternally greatful. i do think if they had got things right in the first place she may have settled and it would have been cheaper in the long run, but I'll never know.
 

dizzidancer

Registered User
Feb 23, 2015
80
thank you so much Karjo, we are definitely having to fight and spent 4hrs over the weekend putting together a letter stating all the facts, laws etc etc - so now waiting to see when they will all bother to reply!

We wrote to the head of social services, head of finance for xxxxxx and then copied in the care home, the social worker, the head psychiatrist, and the unit he is in. stating that if this placement fails due to their lack of knowledge and best interest we will take them to court! lets hope something works as its heartbreaking seeing my dad in this mental health unit where people are either drugged up a all day or walking around shouting wanting to kill each other! its so so sad - never dreamed we would be in this position did we??:confused:
 
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dizzidancer

Registered User
Feb 23, 2015
80
UPDATE - STILL NO NEARER A RESOLUTION. Now contacted local MP for help.

This is putting such a strain on us as a family seeing Dad stuck in a mental health unit since January is getting much worse. (Institutionalised?) yesterday, we received a call that he had shoved another male patient and they subsequently fell and broke their hip!! Dad has NEVER been physical so this has come as a shock.... My brothers attitude is that we have done all we can, so let them deal with it, he's in their care, they should have been watching etc. etc. but I'm worried that this may now jeopardise his place in a care home (if it ever gets agreed)!!

So stressed


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Karjo

Registered User
Jan 11, 2012
481
So sorry to hear this. It's such a shame that a person with dementia is put into such an alien environment with nothing to do and is then expected to act normal.
To be honest I am surprised at how so many of these poor folk seem to cope so well with it all. In my Mum's case however she often became violent with frustration and still does and I used to hate it when I was told of her misdemeanours, often in front of her as if she could not hear, and as if I could prevent it.
Like you I longed fo get Mum out of the assessment unit, especially as they were over medicating her and making her ability and confusion even worse, it was very cruel.
I never realised though that the care in the assessment unit was to prove better than the care in the nursing home she eventually went to. The staffing levels were much better in the hospital and they used to take her out around the other parts of the hospital when she was in a good mood. This never happened in the nursing home and she was never clean and rarely happy and they lacked any form of dementia training. So though it may seem awful that he is lingering there in the hospital maybe it for the best, or at least you could pretend it is!
 

dizzidancer

Registered User
Feb 23, 2015
80
Meeting Monday morning with a solicitor - lets hope we can get dad out of there!! 6months in an "assessment unit" is not good for anyone!


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Karjo

Registered User
Jan 11, 2012
481
Meeting Monday morning with a solicitor - lets hope we can get dad out of there!! 6months in an "assessment unit" is not good for anyone!


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My Mum was held for over 9 months the first time.
Like you I was so frustrated at it all and thought we would never get her out.
I think someone cannot be held indefinately on section 3 and a meeting of hospital managers has to be held to justify being held after 6 months. (7 months with the section 2) These are not managers for the actual hospital but brought in independantly.
This meeting was a bit scary, like a court of law but ours was then adjourned for a few weeks because the social worker did not attend . The hospital managers were unexpectedly very helpful and very "on the ball". This was a complete surprise as I thought I was going to be in a hostile situation again. It was not the case, they were very supportive and told me to meanwhile keep a good watch on her medication especially. As one said if it was their Mum they would be keeping a good watch on things and I was doing the right thing, the CPN was asked for a full report as to why the delay and to make sure the social worker attended the next meeting.
As is par for the course the hospital gave my Mum the letter for the next meeting without telling me.All I found was an empty envelope with her name on to alert me! The staff said they had given her a letter but did not know what it was. So ridiculous she was not considered to have the capacity to be released but they expected her to attend a meeting to consider her fate without support, that's indeed if they thought at all. Anyway on further investigation I realised the next meeting was the next day, so another short notice day off work for me and hubbie.
This meeting took place and she was resectioned but they told the hospital, social worker etc they had to be more helpful with the family in finding a suitable placement. I am not sure if they ever would have been as a place came available without arguments over top ups (ie at the L.A. Rate)
What I am saying really is there are safeguards in place and the hospital should be looking at arranging a "hospital managers" meeting if someone is held for more than 7 months to find out why they are still in hospital..
 

dizzidancer

Registered User
Feb 23, 2015
80
Thought i would give you all a happy update - Dad is FINALLY in a home right on my doorstep! He is so much more relaxed and better already its unreal. The setting is in the countryside in xxxxx and although he has lived for over 40yrs in Xxxxx , we wanted him near to family in Xxxxx, so we can make sure he doesn't lose that vital link.

It was all rather sudden, in that we found a suitable care home (after visiting 22 and mostly unsuitable or refused due to funding issues) I took dad there on Monday, we had a meeting Thursday and they discharged him that afternoon!!! Talk about get rid quick!! So, he's been there 4 days and settled so well.

Its been one helluva battle with social services for over 8mths, but we were determined to get the best for dad. In the end, we did it for him and thats whats counts.

Im emotionally & physically exhausted but also really relieved that Dad is now 5mins away and he loves the fact that he gets lots of visitors. Im going to cut down my 3-4 times a day over the next few days as Im returning to work Thursday, so need him to adjust by himself for a bit but he is so much "better" already - he says he has never slept so well as its so peaceful.

There is a 6wk "changeover" period from the old area to the new so the dreaded (& very useless SW) is coming to see him Wednesday to see how he is getting on.

One final question.......... She said at the meeting that the 117 aftercare is reviewed each year. I thought it was for life once you had been on section 3?? Does this mean if they change it, he will lose the funding and if so, what happens then??

ImageUploadedByTalking Point1441052789.450952.jpg


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Karjo

Registered User
Jan 11, 2012
481
Thought i would give you all a happy update - Dad is FINALLY in a home right on my doorstep! He is so much more relaxed and better already its unreal. The setting is in the countryside in essex and although he has lived for over 40yrs in Wanstead, we wanted him near to family in Essex, so we can make sure he doesn't lose that vital link.

It was all rather sudden, in that we found a suitable care home (after visiting 22 and mostly unsuitable or refused due to funding issues) I took dad there on Monday, we had a meeting Thursday and they discharged him that afternoon!!! Talk about get rid quick!! So, he's been there 4 days and settled so well.

Its been one helluva battle with social services for over 8mths, but we were determined to get the best for dad. In the end, we did it for him and thats whats counts.

Im emotionally & physically exhausted but also really relieved that Dad is now 5mins away and he loves the fact that he gets lots of visitors. Im going to cut down my 3-4 times a day over the next few days as Im returning to work Thursday, so need him to adjust by himself for a bit but he is so much "better" already - he says he has never slept so well as its so peaceful.

There is a 6wk "changeover" period from the old area to the new so the dreaded (& very useless SW) is coming to see him Wednesday to see how he is getting on.

One final question.......... She said at the meeting that the 117 aftercare is reviewed each year. I thought it was for life once you had been on section 3?? Does this mean if they change it, he will lose the funding and if so, what happens then??

View attachment 47757


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My Mum on section 117 has had care reviews.one very soon after she was placed and another after a year. like you I thought it meant they would say she is fine, now she can pay for herself.
However this was not the case and they explained that as they are paying the bill they need to make sure her needs are being met. They were actually very thorough in their report, noticing things I had not, but unfortunately it did not mean any of the necessary improvements for Mum's care were made. I think it was a box ticking excercise and she ended up evicted. The home was not bad, they just could not cope with Mum who likes to be very active. We were all out of our depth with her.