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  1. #1
    Registered User Kjn's Avatar
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    Paying 'self funding' through social services

    Anyone heard of this happening?
    When dads CHC stopped(still has FNC) SS were requested to do a care assessment and finance assessment.
    When I originally spoke to dads home who have been brilliant with him , the family and the situation of not having been paid for almost 2mths while this sorted out they were aware dad would initially be self funding for a short time and then we needed the finance panel to agree to pick up funding after his assets dropped to required level.
    It's taken a week to get him passed but the figures given to me were (I do not have letter in writing yet) that dad would be charged a rate from SS , reclaim his AA for now and be paying fees to SS for 2months. It sounded odd as that's not how I understood how it worked.
    I spoke to the home today to say he passed panel and obviously she mentioned the funding thinking I'd be self funding to them. When I mentioned I'm supposed to paying SS she was confused and that they didn't do it that way.
    I'm wondering if SS are just trying to delay their involvement , I doubt they are doing anything for my benefit as for the past yr , infact 10yrs they've done zero to help.
    Any thoughts?
    Thought I'd ring ageUK .

  2. #2
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    Definitely check this out.

    No experience myself of this situation but I know if you sign up to paying any sort of top up, even for just one month it can be interpreted as 'signing up' to paying thereafter.

    Definitely go through any 'contract/ paperwork' with a very fine toothcomb.

    If your dad would be 'self-funding' for a short while and then need SS assistance I know they don't immediately take over payment, but pay a 'contribution towards' until the lower limit, around £14 000 is reached. I believe it's based on something called 'notional capital' in that for every £X your father would 'technically' be earning £x interest. So probably their contributions on an increasing scale as the 'savings' deplete'? (Has anyone checked the interest levels these days? )

    I know with my mother that £9000 gap would only last 3 months so not much time to get things in place.

    It is also my understanding that if in receipt of SS funding AA could not be paid.

    Lots to check out and it does sound very confusing.

  3. #3
    Volunteer Moderator jenniferpa's Avatar
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    If I'm understanding what you are saying, SS will be paying the fees and you will be reimbursing them. Because if so, that's how it should work and it's actually to your benefit as ss will be the ones contracting with the home which gives some measure of protection.

    But I might have misunderstood the position.
    Jennifer

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  4. #4
    Registered User Kjn's Avatar
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    So far I've signed up to nothing , no mention of top ups either.
    Because CHC stopped end of July the home require payment , assessments delayed by SS. To split assets necessary with mum within guidelines at that date dad would be 1700 over the threshold to which my understanding was SS had a panel meeting to discuss them picking up funding assistance after then ...so between the 14,250-23,250 dad will put in half his occu pension (half to mum) , full state pension and there will be an allowance for dad etc to come to figure dad contributes and then assisted by SS for the rest to pay CH. the date of this would be them paying assistance from mid August .

    SS however want me to pay them an amount they call self funding rate to them to which they then pay the care home until the end of October when in their weird calculations he will fall below the 23.....
    The CH however have no knowledge of this 'arrangement' and understand it how I do .
    I've asked age uk who were also a bit confused and also confused that an agreement hadn't been reached regarding costs with the home prior to now.

    I've left it with the home to contact SS finance to figure it out, after a yr of this messing about I'm not being piggy in the middle.


  5. #5
    Registered User Pete R's Avatar
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    I believe what the Local Authority (SS) are doing is quite common even though the CH may never come across it before.

    As long as the CH get the Self Funding payment in full for the weeks it is due then they nor you nor your Dad are loosing out in any way.

    There should be no Top Up involved as your Dad will in effect be paying in full till he reaches the upper threshold.

    Last edited by Pete R; 14-09-2017 at 02:01 PM.
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  6. #6
    Registered User Pete R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonjuice View Post
    It is also my understanding that if in receipt of SS funding AA could not be paid.
    Even though the LA are technically funding for the few weeks that Dad remains a self funder he is still entitled to AA. Once his assets reach the upper threshold then AA will cease.

    When someone applies for a Deferred Payment Agreement the LA pay all or part of the bill but the person is still entitled to AA.

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  7. #7
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    I know of someone whose mother has dementia, who managed to negotiate with SS that instead of selling her bungalow to fund her CH, it was rented out and the rent used to part-fund CH fees. Moreover, the SS agreed, as they had initially contracted with the CH (as part of the lady's hospital discharge car plan for 3 months), they would continue to pay the CH directly and son/mum would pay the SS (with the necessary top-up - difference between the rental income and CH fee).

    This means that the CH fees remains at the LA rate, saving these good people around £200 per week!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philbo View Post
    I know of someone whose mother has dementia, who managed to negotiate with SS that instead of selling her bungalow to fund her CH, it was rented out and the rent used to part-fund CH fees. Moreover, the SS agreed, as they had initially contracted with the CH (as part of the lady's hospital discharge car plan for 3 months), they would continue to pay the CH directly and son/mum would pay the SS (with the necessary top-up - difference between the rental income and CH fee).

    This means that the CH fees remains at the LA rate, saving these good people around £200 per week!
    That could help someone. Oh if only I could have done that I would have saved over £500-£600 a week for these past 5+ years. that could have saved around £24000 a year. That might have been as much as £120 0000! Mind you, on reflection I doubt this Home would have gone for it as they wouldn't relinquish or give way when they put up the fees 27% one year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete R View Post
    Even though the LA are technically funding for the few weeks that Dad remains a self funder he is still entitled to AA. Once his assets reach the upper threshold then AA will cease.

    When someone applies for a Deferred Payment Agreement the LA pay all or part of the bill but the person is still entitled to AA.

    Thanks for that info. I knew that both SS and AA was probably out of the same 'budget' and knew it ceased on SS taking over all payments, but didn't realise that one was still entitled to it in the interim.
    Last edited by lemonjuice; 14-09-2017 at 04:09 PM.

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