Vengeance is mine!

CJW

Registered User
Sep 22, 2013
212
0
As those of you who have read my posts will know I have had previous reasons to complain aboutt the NHS, however I always thought that although mistakes had been made the people involved had been trying their best. However today I have made a formal complaint. Mum has been very ill for the last month: a fortnight in hospital, and diverse infections, intestinal, uti and now pulmonary. Since Friday when she was seen by an emergency GP and put on antibiotics mum has had a fluctuating temperature going over 39 for much of the time, she is delirious, vomiting and visibly and audibly in pain. you can imagine my distress seeing her like this. This morning, finding her worse and still with a high temperature I went from the CH to the surgery. I explained that I wanted to see the GP and was given a free appointment for a little later. i waited and was seen by the GP. I explained my mother's symptoms expecting the doctor to say that I shouldn't worry and the antibiotic would kick in and that she would review mums pain meds, or to say she needed to see mum. What I didnt expect was her to make no comment about mum's health but to tell me they dont usually talk to relatives and that the care home call them if there is a problem. I asked her if she was therefore not concerned about what I had told her and she replied that that was not so, but the appointment was an emergency appointment ( there was no one in the waiting room)and she had no record of any concerns from the care home. I was so stunned that I just stood up thanked her and left. I sat and cried in the car. I dont believe that one stupid woman could reduce me to tears when I have struggled through caring for mum for so long. I went back to the CH who called out the doctor and surprise surprise it wasnt the uncaring one who came. He diagnosed a pulmonary infection on top of the urinary infection changed the antibiotic and increased mum's pain meds. Mum is still very ill tonight, but I feel better as I filed an official complaint. I can stand people getting things wrong, I can forgive human failing ,but I cannot accept such unkindness. i feel like printing off the hippocratic oath and sending it to the doc with the bits about patient's famillies underlined....
love to all, sorry for the rant........
Ps. Mum makes almost no sense these days. She resists taking her meds, and when the carer tried to get her to take her paracetamol she said she couldn't. The carer asked why and mum replied "because the parrot has ate em all"
 

Mums helper

Registered User
Sep 7, 2014
19
0
Well done for sticking up for your mum and writing a complaint as well. I hope she feels better really soon. I love the excuse about the parrot eating her meds. One morning, mums bed and carpet were wet. She told me she was sleeping and a horse came in and peed everywhere! You've got to laugh!


Sent from my iPad using Talking Point
 

pippop1

Registered User
Apr 8, 2013
498
0
You know that's an old joke about the parrots don't you?

"because the parrots eat em all" (sounds like paracetamol) so it does actually make sense.
 

lin1

Registered User
Jan 14, 2010
9,350
0
East Kent
I am so sorry to hear about your poor mum.
I hope the new Antibiotics kick in soon and the additional pain relief helps Mum.
It is such a worry when illness strikes

As for that GP I am Dumbfounded to say the least. "They don't normally talk to relatives" What planet is she from and " These are emergency appointment" well you were their to talk about your mum's condition which was an emergency.

Good for you for complaining, I would have done the same inc crying in the car

Please let us know how Mum is.
 

LYN T

Registered User
Aug 30, 2012
6,958
0
Brixham Devon
Oh CJW

I would have cried as well! Such coldness from that Doc. I'm glad you complained.

Your poor Mum; I hope she starts to feel better soon.

Take care

Lyn T XX
 

Izzy

Volunteer Moderator
Aug 31, 2003
74,000
0
72
Dundee
Your poor mum. Thank goodness you're there to fight for her. Not that you should have to.
 

Katee

Registered User
Sep 19, 2013
16
0
Glasgow
Good on you! The NHS is pot luck - depending on the ailment and who you see. Truly dedicated health professionals seem to be constrained by bureaucracy and there is a chronic shortage of specialists. I think most of it is tick-box, conveyor belt treatment. It is over-stretched. My mother would not 'bother' her doctor and ended up with double pneumonia, fell out of bed, broke her pelvis, hospitalised for five months where she broke her hip (no fault of hospital - they couldn't keep her in bed). Mentally and physically she is in a mess. I now override her and get help when she is ill enough.

I wasn't near her when she had pneumonia and my father kept telling me it was just a flu. Had we done what you have done, I don't think we would be in this mess.

Take care. I admire what you had to do.
 

Nebiroth

Registered User
Aug 20, 2006
3,510
0
Good for you! The only thing I will say is that doctors tread a very fine line when talking to relatives, due to confidentiality - relatives have no right to know anything, really, not even next of kin relatives. A doctor can only really discuss a patient with a relative if the patient themselves has given permission (verbal is enough) or when the relative is directly involved in providing care and must know in order to provide the correct care (such as giving medication)

That is probably why the doctor referred to the care home, sinc eit is the care home doing this.

Personally I would have simply dialled 999. I am very surprised the care home didn't.

It's just not worth waiting to talk to GP's, espescially as they really cannot diagnose without seeing the patient.

It's better to simply summon an ambulance, They can assess as necessary and relay the result sof tests back to a hospital based doctor who can decide if an admission is warranted.
 

CJW

Registered User
Sep 22, 2013
212
0
Thanks for all your replies. Sorry, thought everyone knew the "why can't you get painkillers in the jungle? because the parrots eat em all" joke...
While Neibroth is right, my mother has told the doctors they can talk to me and while her condition may be generally considered an emergency, because she would not stand another trip to hospital 999 is a last resort. The home called the emergency docs twice over the week end and only didnt call the GP out because I said I would go in to see her, essentially to save the GP the bother of coming out if it wasn't neccessary. Also I have seen theis GP before. I asked for a DNR to be put in place, mum is late stage dementia, end stage myelofibrosis and will not have an easy end of life. That time she told me she didnt have time to discuss it and that she would talk to Mum about it! the hospital put it in place permanently, they didnt understand why it had not been done ages ago...
Do GPs actually get any training in caring for dementia patients?
Love and thanks to all. I am off to see mum...
 

Rageddy Anne

Registered User
Feb 21, 2013
5,984
0
Cotswolds
CJW, how awful for you, I cried just to think what you went through, and no matter what the politically correct thing was, that GP was SO WRONG in her attitude. I hope your complaint results in someone reminding her of the promise she made when she took her hypocritical ( see reason for editing below) oath.

I hope your mum is more comfortable now.
 
Last edited:

CJW

Registered User
Sep 22, 2013
212
0
I want to scream!

I have just had an email back regarding my complaint:
"We have spoken to the practice regarding your complaint and, at this stage, we will require your mother’s consent for you to act on her behalf.
We would therefor be greatful if you could forward both your and your mother’s postal addresses to us as we need to write to you both with some forms for signature.
Once we have your mother’s consent we will be able to discuss with the practice how best to proceed in allowing you discuss her care on her behalf. "

I have replied:
" Could I suggest you reread my complaint. My mother, as I mentioned in my complaint, has advanced dementia and cannot give informed consent to anything, never mind sign a form. I was not asking Dr. X anything about my mother, but was informing her that my mother was worryingly ill. Common sense and the fact that Dr. X has spoken to me both in the presence of my mother and alone before lead me to think that "consent" is being used as an excuse. I would also stress that during our conversation Dr. X did not mention anything to do with "consent". It certainly has never been a problem with other GPs in the practise, on call doctors or Doctors at the hospital.
With thanks

Ps If you need to confirm that my mother accepts my involvement, and that I have always been present and her condition has always been discussed with me by medical professionals I suggest you talk to the care home.

I am so despairing. Do they really think they are helping or are they just trying to wriggle out of a tricky situation. All I wanted was an apology. As mum says," the world has gone mad"
 

CJW

Registered User
Sep 22, 2013
212
0
Nuts!

Just got a reply back. At least they are responding, but the response is completely nuts:
"I appreciate that you may see consent as an excuse, but we have to be extremely careful discussing and sharing personal information while dealing with a complaint. We have to make sure that we have the full consent of the patient, or their next of kin, before the practice is allowed to discuss personal data with persons not normally involved in their care."
All very fine and as it should be but as I am my mother's next of kin I have no idea what the fuss is about! Do they really want me to fill in a form to say I agree that I should be allowed to discuss my mother's health?
Ps. Mum a bit better today..
 

Nebiroth

Registered User
Aug 20, 2006
3,510
0
I am afraid that some of this is due to the unfortunate tendancy for the Uk to have followed in the footsteps of the USA and has become a very litigious society. Basically people will sue for "compensation" at the drop of the hat and are encouraged to do so by legal firms.

The practise are like so much else paranoid about following the rules to the absolute letter.

It is probably something daft like their having no official confirmation that you are next of kin and they won't shift until they have it in black and white that you are. That then precludes any possibility of their being hauled over the coals later.

The data protection laws are extremely strict and nowhere more so when it involves medical confidentiality.

What yuo're getting is probably the result of someone simply going through their official procedures and who isn't familiar enough witht he situation to twig that you are next of kin.

Also some of these requirements are legal obligations and they have to go through them even whenin some situations they produce obvously absurd results like the one you're going through.

The "not normally involved in care" thing is almost certainly because mum is in a care home, and the presumption is that the care home has exclusive or near exclusive role of providing all care, excepting whatever informal arrangements have been made with relatives to lend a helping hand.

Where I used to work in a college some of the health and safety stuff used to drive us crazy but it was simple: the law was interpreted in the most literal and extreme way possible, because if someone had injured themselves soem ambulance chasing legal outfit would encourage them to sue for "negligence"
 

CJW

Registered User
Sep 22, 2013
212
0
Nebroth, i understand what you are saying but I am on the files as next of kin. Mum has been asked several times if she minds them talking to me and has always told them she wants me to deal with things. I have been involved with all her health care for the past five years and I just feel they are looking for a way out and using consent as an excuse.
Thanks for your input. It does help.
 

susy

Registered User
Jul 29, 2013
801
0
North East
Do you have POA? Did your mum volunteer to go into the home she is in?

The practice is ensuring that they are totally following the guidelines officially. I'm hopeful that behind the scenes that this particular GP has had her ass kicked! However I have met this type before and they are so arrogant they simply don't see that they have done anything wrong!!!!! Shocking and completely horrible.

I hope that this does get resolved very soon xxx I'm glad your mum is picking up too. That is by far the most important thing.
 

CJW

Registered User
Sep 22, 2013
212
0
Hi Suzy,
I don't have a health and welfare POA but do have a financial one. Mum was discharged from hospital to the CH and was deemed incapable of making the decision herself. If the GP had said anything to me about needing consent we could have sorted it out but she didn't. If she had said she would organise a home visit but couldnt discuss my mother's health with me I would have been very surprised but not upset. I have seen her before, once with Mum and once alone at the surgery and though she wasn't very aimiable she did discuss my mother's health with me. I know she is using this as an excuse and that is just making me more determined to make sure she thinks twice before treating anyone else like a fool.
Am off to see Mum and hoping it is a good day....
 

nmintueo

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
844
0
UK
What I didnt expect was her [the GP] to make no comment about mum's health but to tell me they don't usually talk to relatives ...

Have a read of this GMC guidance and see if it's any use to you:

Confidentiality guidance: Sharing information with a patient's partner, carers, relatives or friends
http://www.gmc-uk.org/guidance/ethical_guidance/confidentiality_64_66_sharing_information.asp

Confidentiality guidance: Disclosures about patients who lack capacity to consent
http://www.gmc-uk.org/guidance/ethical_guidance/confidentiality_57_63_patients_who_lack_capacity.asp

Your mother is still talking - wisecracking, even!
Can she / does she say that she does or doesn't want you involved and informed?

61. If a patient who lacks capacity asks you not to disclose personal information about their condition or treatment, you should try to persuade them to allow an appropriate person to be involved in the consultation.
 

CJW

Registered User
Sep 22, 2013
212
0
Thanks Nmintueo, mum has always agreed to me speaking with doctors and discussing her health and deciding what course to take if there is a choice to be made. She even says "ask my daughter" when she can't answer a question or "I will do what my daughter says" when asked if she will accept treatment. She has never refused my knowing her medical details and I have been with her to all her hospital appointments for the last five years. I am sure that her medical records must include this fact. The links are very helpful and confirm the GPs duty to listen to relatives. I wasn't asking the GP anything about mum's health. i just told her mum's symptoms and all I expected her to say was either wait another day or two for the antibiotics to work, that she would review her pain meds or that she would visit mum to reassess her.
Thanks again ...
 

lin1

Registered User
Jan 14, 2010
9,350
0
East Kent
Hi CJW
This won't be any help for now may be of help in the future .
If your mum is agreeable and is able to sign her name, you could do what I have done for my Dad .
I wrote a letter to the GP practice saying something like.
I (title and name) give my permission for you to discuss illnesses and treatment with my (relationship and name) .
I never had a problem with mums GP's discussing mums illness treatment etc with me but wanted to ensure i would have no problems with doing the same for my dad.

I really hope you can get your complaint sorted out to your satisfaction ASAP.
As all you were doing was informing that GP your mum was very poorly and you were worried. I have told people many times on TP to inform the persons GP as they should listen to you, and their is IMO no reason why they shouldn't listen.

How is your poor mum.
 

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