Power of attorney - disagreements… multiple siblings appointment?
- Thread starter sassy_lassy
- Start date
Hello Sassy Lassy, and welcome to Talking Point.
I can quite understand how you might feel upset at your sibling's response here - and with a level of justification to my mind!
Perhaps, in order to keep the peace and be the one to lead by example, all four siblings having the attorneyship is not a bad thing, as it allows for one of the others to step in if someone is away, or unwell, or of course is no longer able to be an Attorney themselves.
However, it wouldn't really work if it required all four to act jointly, nor if those who are doing the everyday caring job had to get the agreement of all attorneys every time something needed paying for or sorting.
It is necessary to be transparent when it comes to attorneyship, keeping records and receipts, and only acting in the best interests of the donor. Maybe if it could be accepted that seeing those financial records and keeping the lines of communication open it could be possible to only have two attorneys.
Would it be possible to have a family meeting to find out why this sibling so wants attorneyship? Would they be prepared to do more to support your parents at the same time in order to be more involved and understand what it takes to keep their world ticking over?
Sadly the financial aspects (as well as letting someone else take the burden of care) often tend to cause the biggest upsets within families.
I can quite understand how you might feel upset at your sibling's response here - and with a level of justification to my mind!
Perhaps, in order to keep the peace and be the one to lead by example, all four siblings having the attorneyship is not a bad thing, as it allows for one of the others to step in if someone is away, or unwell, or of course is no longer able to be an Attorney themselves.
However, it wouldn't really work if it required all four to act jointly, nor if those who are doing the everyday caring job had to get the agreement of all attorneys every time something needed paying for or sorting.
It is necessary to be transparent when it comes to attorneyship, keeping records and receipts, and only acting in the best interests of the donor. Maybe if it could be accepted that seeing those financial records and keeping the lines of communication open it could be possible to only have two attorneys.
Would it be possible to have a family meeting to find out why this sibling so wants attorneyship? Would they be prepared to do more to support your parents at the same time in order to be more involved and understand what it takes to keep their world ticking over?
Sadly the financial aspects (as well as letting someone else take the burden of care) often tend to cause the biggest upsets within families.
My thoughts
Who ever has power of attorney it's no body's business but your mums. If she chooses to appoint you and your other sibling and you two are prepared to accept the role, it is nothing to do with anybody else, especially as your mum appears to have full capacity. it's totally her choice. As it's her choice to leave her assets in her will exactly how she chooses.
What would the eldest do about her choices of food, whether she chooses to buy pink pyjamas? Would they get involved? No I think not as I guess they would feel it's none of their business......
My mum made me POA over my elder sister. No discussion was ever entered into with my sister, only that my mum told GP when they questioned mum why only me, mum told GP she didn't trust my sister to manage her money properly.
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Who ever has power of attorney it's no body's business but your mums. If she chooses to appoint you and your other sibling and you two are prepared to accept the role, it is nothing to do with anybody else, especially as your mum appears to have full capacity. it's totally her choice. As it's her choice to leave her assets in her will exactly how she chooses.
What would the eldest do about her choices of food, whether she chooses to buy pink pyjamas? Would they get involved? No I think not as I guess they would feel it's none of their business......
My mum made me POA over my elder sister. No discussion was ever entered into with my sister, only that my mum told GP when they questioned mum why only me, mum told GP she didn't trust my sister to manage her money properly.
Sent from my iPhone using Talking Point
There are days that I am glad I am the only one, but I too remember having to organize MIL's will and POA as after spending weeks of stress sorting out the COP for my mum I sat her down and told her to do it.
All was going fine, hubby is the one who is closest and does everything (well usually me) but you get the jist. When his sister found out she went ballistic, wanted to be included, but does nothing for her mum, in fact causes more grief than a little. So MIL ended up having to include her just for the peace. I think to be honest that when the time comes I don't think she will be interested in the day to day stuff and will leave it all to me and hubby. (I'm pretty sure of this as not long after MIL did this she was diagnosed with breast cancer and it was me and hubby that did it all for her, daughter was nowhere to be seen).
You can either make it so that everyone has to agree to something before it can be done, or that anyone of you can make the decision. It's hard to decide which is best. But to be honest I think your mum should stick to her guns and have your other siblings as back up. You never know you may never need to register it.
All was going fine, hubby is the one who is closest and does everything (well usually me) but you get the jist. When his sister found out she went ballistic, wanted to be included, but does nothing for her mum, in fact causes more grief than a little. So MIL ended up having to include her just for the peace. I think to be honest that when the time comes I don't think she will be interested in the day to day stuff and will leave it all to me and hubby. (I'm pretty sure of this as not long after MIL did this she was diagnosed with breast cancer and it was me and hubby that did it all for her, daughter was nowhere to be seen).
You can either make it so that everyone has to agree to something before it can be done, or that anyone of you can make the decision. It's hard to decide which is best. But to be honest I think your mum should stick to her guns and have your other siblings as back up. You never know you may never need to register it.
Sibling disagreements
I sympathise 100% with your situation, Sassy-Lassy. I share POA with my older brother. My younger brother lives 500 miles away and rarely visits. For at least a year now my older brother has been full of rage towards me for "selfishly keeping my mother alive with antibiotics even though she is just a vegetable", and he can't bear to see her suffering. For the past 7 years she has been living in a wonderful care home, and has enjoyed some of the happiest years of her life there (now 96). She has remained alert, bright, engaged, very smiley and happy, with good memories, even despite dwindling speech and loss of all her motor functions, being doubly incontinent, and having to be fed. But NOT a vegetable in ANY WAY! My brother visits for 20 mins every 2 to 3 weeks. I usually visit for 1-2 hours 3 times a week, more often if she isn't feeling well. I believe I know her, her wishes, and her state of mind somewhat better than my brother! She gets lots of urine infections and occasional chest infections. Since she was found to be resistant to all the oral antibiotics for UTIs we we have been using a very effective alternative remedy. She is hardly "suffering". I think it's my brother who is the one who is suffering, not her!
But now, as my mum isn't so well again, my brother is threatening to take me and the doctor to court to make sure we end her life, instead of "prolonging it with antibiotics". He refuses to accept that antibiotics do not prolong the life of those who are ready to die; and that my mum still has a strong will and, at least up until now, has wanted to live and so has recovered from all of her many infections - and if now is the time for her to let go, then that is her own choice, not mine. He believes that I am to blame for all her (and his) suffering, and he has repeatedly told all the family that I have kept her alive for my own selfish needs, and that I have persuaded her doctor (private doc) to do everything I ask of him. So he has turned all the family against me as well.
And yet my mum has been a shining light of joy and love at the home, and has touched the hearts, minds and spirits of almost every resident and staff member there. Her two regular visitors (whom I have organised) are devoted to her as she is so loving and responsive. They both find themselves enchanted and blessed in her presence. For me, her stay in the Home has indeed been a hugely healing and loving time. These are experiences that, sadly, have completely by-passed my brother - and the rest of the family. I feel he sees her for who she isn't (ie she's not who she used to be); I feel I see her for who she is (loving, accepting, happy, and engaged with all those around her).
Now I don't know what to say to my brother, knowing how great is his rage is towards me. He refuses to listen to or believe anything I say. Instead he just shouts at me, accusing me of being selfish and cruel. I feel I have been the complete opposite, having made huge sacrifices in my own life and work to help care for her and ensure she has been as happy as she could possibly be. And how can I deal with the rest of the family when their views have been contaminated by his rage and blame?
Sorry I've ranted on somewhat. When passions run high, so the words just flow.
Thank you for the opportunity, Talking Point!
I sympathise 100% with your situation, Sassy-Lassy. I share POA with my older brother. My younger brother lives 500 miles away and rarely visits. For at least a year now my older brother has been full of rage towards me for "selfishly keeping my mother alive with antibiotics even though she is just a vegetable", and he can't bear to see her suffering. For the past 7 years she has been living in a wonderful care home, and has enjoyed some of the happiest years of her life there (now 96). She has remained alert, bright, engaged, very smiley and happy, with good memories, even despite dwindling speech and loss of all her motor functions, being doubly incontinent, and having to be fed. But NOT a vegetable in ANY WAY! My brother visits for 20 mins every 2 to 3 weeks. I usually visit for 1-2 hours 3 times a week, more often if she isn't feeling well. I believe I know her, her wishes, and her state of mind somewhat better than my brother! She gets lots of urine infections and occasional chest infections. Since she was found to be resistant to all the oral antibiotics for UTIs we we have been using a very effective alternative remedy. She is hardly "suffering". I think it's my brother who is the one who is suffering, not her!
But now, as my mum isn't so well again, my brother is threatening to take me and the doctor to court to make sure we end her life, instead of "prolonging it with antibiotics". He refuses to accept that antibiotics do not prolong the life of those who are ready to die; and that my mum still has a strong will and, at least up until now, has wanted to live and so has recovered from all of her many infections - and if now is the time for her to let go, then that is her own choice, not mine. He believes that I am to blame for all her (and his) suffering, and he has repeatedly told all the family that I have kept her alive for my own selfish needs, and that I have persuaded her doctor (private doc) to do everything I ask of him. So he has turned all the family against me as well.
And yet my mum has been a shining light of joy and love at the home, and has touched the hearts, minds and spirits of almost every resident and staff member there. Her two regular visitors (whom I have organised) are devoted to her as she is so loving and responsive. They both find themselves enchanted and blessed in her presence. For me, her stay in the Home has indeed been a hugely healing and loving time. These are experiences that, sadly, have completely by-passed my brother - and the rest of the family. I feel he sees her for who she isn't (ie she's not who she used to be); I feel I see her for who she is (loving, accepting, happy, and engaged with all those around her).
Now I don't know what to say to my brother, knowing how great is his rage is towards me. He refuses to listen to or believe anything I say. Instead he just shouts at me, accusing me of being selfish and cruel. I feel I have been the complete opposite, having made huge sacrifices in my own life and work to help care for her and ensure she has been as happy as she could possibly be. And how can I deal with the rest of the family when their views have been contaminated by his rage and blame?
Sorry I've ranted on somewhat. When passions run high, so the words just flow.
Thank you for the opportunity, Talking Point!
Golly, poor you - that sounds truly terrible - it's almost as if your brother is wanting to impose euthanasia on your mother which seems unbelievable. And to have turned your family against you too. It's now a year since you posted - I'd really be interested to know how everything went for you, hoping that there was some improvement in understanding for your mother's needs.
Sending best wishes.
Hello Sassy Lassy,
1. I cannot encourage you enough get your mum to sign a Power of Attorney for Finance & Property & another one for Welfare. They are both essential for being able to make legal decisions.
2. As money & its availability are a consideration in making welfare decisions the siblings who are welfare attorneys should also be attorneys for finance.
Just a heads up. The wording sometimes says attorneys can act jointly & severally.Solicitors will argue it can be more convenient if individual attorneys can make decisions if all the attorneys are not on the spot to sign checks etc That's fine if the attorneys agree but a total nightmare if they don't as the only oversight on an attorney's behaviour is the Office of the Public Guardian. Trust me on this one I have the scars!
Re multiple attorneys. For the sake of harmony could not the POW state a majority only is needed for a decision. That might help.
1. I cannot encourage you enough get your mum to sign a Power of Attorney for Finance & Property & another one for Welfare. They are both essential for being able to make legal decisions.
2. As money & its availability are a consideration in making welfare decisions the siblings who are welfare attorneys should also be attorneys for finance.
Just a heads up. The wording sometimes says attorneys can act jointly & severally.Solicitors will argue it can be more convenient if individual attorneys can make decisions if all the attorneys are not on the spot to sign checks etc That's fine if the attorneys agree but a total nightmare if they don't as the only oversight on an attorney's behaviour is the Office of the Public Guardian. Trust me on this one I have the scars!
Re multiple attorneys. For the sake of harmony could not the POW state a majority only is needed for a decision. That might help.
Hi
I was joint attorney with my brother and sister - all three siblings, for finance and health/welfare. The solicitor was a little apprehensive about having all three but we went ahead and it worked ok.
However, it only worked because we have always got on really well. Not seeing much of each other and we live quite far apart. Practically it was the sibling that lived closest to my Dad (5 mins away) that did most of the day to day stuff. I tried on several occasions to help with financial stuff but logistically it was easier for her to do it, access to paperwork, etc.
More than once certain papers needed the signatures of all attorneys, this was a nightmare, being passed from one sibling to another.
I felt guilty about not helping out as much as I should, but it would not have worked, easier for one to do it.
I can only say four siblings as joint attorneys would not work well and be extremely frustrating for all of you. Maybe have a family meeting and agree that you and your nearest sibling are joint POA's but keep the others in the loop about what goes on.
Could you visit the solicitor and ask their advice? Agree between you all that you will go with the solicitor's advice?
Hope you can get it sorted, here is no easy answer, if trust is lost between you already its a difficult path.
I was joint attorney with my brother and sister - all three siblings, for finance and health/welfare. The solicitor was a little apprehensive about having all three but we went ahead and it worked ok.
However, it only worked because we have always got on really well. Not seeing much of each other and we live quite far apart. Practically it was the sibling that lived closest to my Dad (5 mins away) that did most of the day to day stuff. I tried on several occasions to help with financial stuff but logistically it was easier for her to do it, access to paperwork, etc.
More than once certain papers needed the signatures of all attorneys, this was a nightmare, being passed from one sibling to another.
I felt guilty about not helping out as much as I should, but it would not have worked, easier for one to do it.
I can only say four siblings as joint attorneys would not work well and be extremely frustrating for all of you. Maybe have a family meeting and agree that you and your nearest sibling are joint POA's but keep the others in the loop about what goes on.
Could you visit the solicitor and ask their advice? Agree between you all that you will go with the solicitor's advice?
Hope you can get it sorted, here is no easy answer, if trust is lost between you already its a difficult path.
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