Is it too late to make house Tenants in Common

[Lilian&Dave]

David was sectioned 28 days ago and today is decision day as to whether I would be able to cope with him at home again, or if he needs to go into care. We jointly own our home and I wonder if anyone knows whether it is too late for us to change to Tenants in Common, seeing a solicitor next week but thought someone might have experience of this. David cannot sign his name now, I do have LPA register for over 2 years now.

 

[nitram]

Not too late, you can sever the joint tenancy and serve notice on him.

 

[Lilian&Dave]

Not too late, you can sever the joint tenancy and serve notice on him.

Thanks you Nitram. Do you know if I am able to assign his half to a family member or will it just go into his care fund

 

[nitram]

His share will be half a house, the LA will claim that half the value of the whole house is taken into account as capital. You will argue that only the open market value of his has should be used and that as you are not willing to sell your half this value is tantamount to zero, who would buy half a house?

You should also make a will leaving your half to somebody other than David so that if you predecease him the whole house will not be available to the LA.

EDIT
If a spouse or relative over 60 remains resident in the property it's value is disregarded.

Also more about tenants in common

7.019 Where an interest in a property is beneficially shared between relatives, the value of the
resident's interest will be heavily influenced by the possibility of a market amongst his fellow
beneficiaries. If no other relative is willing to buy the resident's interest, it is highly unlikely that
any "outsider" would be willing to buy into the property unless the financial advantages far
outweighed the risks and limitations involved. The value of the interest, even to a willing buyer,
could in such circumstances effectively be nil. If the local authority is unsure about the resident's
share, or their valuation is disputed by the resident, again a professional valuation should be
obtained

>>>CRAG<<<

 

[rajahh]

This is what I did . I left my half in trust to Gordon's daughter and my three children .

We actually did this when Gordon stillhadcapacity so his half is also left in trust and I have not inherited it so if I need care then only my share could've used forme. As Gordon has now died this does mean that at least someof the value of the house will go to our children

 

[Saffie]

Do you know if I am able to assign his half to a family member or will it just go into his care fund

You won't be able to do anything about your husband's half of the house if he has lost capacity as you will be unilaterally severing the joint tenancy, so his half will be left to you.

 

[WILLIAMR]

You won't be able to do anything about your husband's half of the house if he has lost capacity as you will be unilaterally severing the joint tenancy, so his half will be left to you.

Hi Saffie

If Dave dies first then Lillian will inherit the house.
If Lillian severs the joint tenancy and dies first with Dave in care the offspring will inherit Lillian's half and Dave's half will be worthless as nobody will buy half a house if somebody has the right to be in it.
If Lillian inherits the David's half she could have it directed to the offspring at the time of probate. I am not sure if this would work if Lillian has to go in to care later as the council may argue deprivation of assets had happened.

 

[nitram]

Saffie
"...so his half will be left to you..."
This assumes that Dave either dies intestate or that Lilian is Dave's sole beneficiary.

WilliamR
You are making assumptions about the existence of wills and their contents.

 

[Saffie]

Do you know if I am able to assign his half to a family member or will it just go into his care fund

Thank you William. I carried out unilateral severance on the joint-tenancy of the house owned by my husband and myself a few years ago so I am aware of the implications of it.
I was just responding to the above question Lilian asked in her post.

If Lillian severs the joint tenancy and dies first with Dave in care the offspring will inherit Lillian's half and Dave's half will be worthless as nobody will buy half a
house if somebody has the right to be in it.

That, however, will not prevent the the LA from attempting to persuade the owner of the other half to sell. Hopefully this would be resisted.

 

[Saffie]

Saffie
"...so his half will be left to you..."
This assumes that Dave either dies intestate or that Lilian is Dave's sole beneficiary.

Well, if it is a unilateral severance and the house was held jointly, who else could it be left to but Lilian?
My husband's half of our house came automatically to me as he had not severed the joint ownership and we had originally made mirror wills.

 

[nitram]

"...he had not severed the joint ownership and we had originally made mirror wills..."

Leaving his entire estate which included half the property held as tenant in common to you?

 

[Saffie]

My husband's Will stood as it originally was and was kept by the solicitor.
Mine was changed by the same solicitor.

 

[Lilian&Dave]

Thank you for your helpful replies. It seems I am protected well if I outlive David, so let's hope that is the case. We do have reciprocal wills in place, I was trying to find out about his half ownership of the house. Relevant now as meeting today has agreed he needs to go into care as I would not be able to cope with him at home again. Sad after 52 years together.

 

[Jessbow]

Very sad Lillian, but lets hope the time you now spend together is quality time, with someone else doing the hard work and you just enjoying his company.

 

[nitram]

Saffie
So your new will left your half of the house to other than Dave to protect it from any LA claim.

Dave's original will left everything including his half of the house now held as tenants in common to you.

 

[WILLIAMR]

I agree it is very sad Lillian.
Myself and my wife have been together for nearly 52 years.
We met at 11. As far as we are concerned our love for each other dates from then and not the date of our marriage.

William

 

[Saffie]

I think I've already responded to your question Nitram. My husband's Will obviously couldn't be changed as he had lost capacity otherwise it could have been a joint severence.

I'm afraid I'm finding this cross-examining of my husband's Will rather distasteful and upsetting today. I was only trying to help Lilian and rather wish I hadn't posted now - though nothing to do with Lilian with whom I have nothing but sympathy.

I'll know better than to try another time.

 

[LYN T]

EDIT
If a spouse or relative over 60 remains resident in the property it's value is disregarded.


L="https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/301250/CRAG_34_April_2014.pdf"]>>>CRAG<<<[/URL]

I am aged 56 (spouse) the house is still disregarded.

There is other criteria e.g. The house is occupied by a carer/disabled person/children etc. Crag rules apply there is a list outlining when the house is not taken into consideration

 

[sue38]

I am aged 56 (spouse) the house is still disregarded.

There is other criteria e.g. The house is occupied by a carer/disabled person/children etc. Crag rules apply there is a list outlining when the house is not taken into consideration

Yes the rule is a spouse (of whatever age) or another relative over the age of 60.

From CRAG:

Where the resident no longer occupies a dwelling as their home, its value should still be disregarded where it is occupied in whole or in part as their only or main home by
• the resident's partner, former partner or civil partner (except where the resident is estranged or divorced from the partner, former partner or civil partner)
• a lone parent who is the claimant’s estranged or divorced partner
• a relative (as defined at 7.004) of the resident or member of the residents family (as defined at 7.007) who
- is aged 60 or over, or
- is a child of the resident aged under 16, or
- is incapacitated.

Where 2 (or more) people own a property as joint tenants and one of them dies, their share automatically passes to their co-owners. If that joint tenancy is severed by any one of the owners, so that they then own as tenants as common, then the share of each co-owner will then pass according to any will they have already made, or any will they make in the future. If there is no valid will it will form part of their estate, and pass according to the rules of intestacy. A spouse/civil partner will not necessarily inherit the whole estate under the rules of intestacy - it depends on the size of the estate and what other relatives there are.

 

[Saffie]

Thank you Sue. That is what I have said. A Will was already written leaving everything to me.