LPA for health & welfare

[treecol]

I started another thread about LPA as I have a different question - hope it's ok.
DH & I have LPA for my Dad. His solicitor was very clear on the importance of both & we have found the health/welfare one very useful. Now DH's parents need him & his brother to have LPA as their health is getting worse. However I spoke to the family solicitor today who said the health one isn't needed. I disagreed based on experience with my dad. The solicitor said next of kin always have more say than any health professionals. He said they just try it on but under the mental capacity act don't have more power/say than next of kin. Surely this isn't correct. I'm sure I've read lots on here about problems people have without LPA.
Could you post any info I can print out & show the family & the solicitor? Thanks in advance.

 

[jenniferpa]

Your solicitor is telling you how it "should" be not how it often is. Nothing he has told you incorrect, but he's not the person who will have to deal with the ramifications in the event that you come across a situation where a welfare LPA would be handy.

Apart form the: "we've listened to your advice but have decided to take the belt and braces approach and get the LPA", you might also point out to him that only with an welfare LPA can you access medical records should that become necessary in the future.

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/access-to-someone-elses-medical-or-health-records.aspx

It's not as clear as it might be (in that it doesn't really distinguish between what you can do with a financial LPA and a welfare one) but it might help.

 

[retiredcopper]

As Jennifer says - in an ideal world the medical profession (and social workers) should listen to the next of kin but that's not always the case. It's amazing how many times we have been asked if DH & I have LPA for MIL - when we say yes everything is ok but we get the feeling that if we'd said no we would have had a fight on our hands. It's certainly been worth getting for MIL.

 

[treecol]

Thank you for the replies. I know from experience caring for my dad, it is not as this solicitor says it is. I'm concerned he may well bring this up with the family & as they are keen to save money they may well listen to him. My dad's solicitor was much more thorough but sadly in a different county, so can't be used in this case.
Does anyone have any press stories I could show them, of cases where relatives don't have LPA? Can you point me to the one I think was highlighted here, where the daughter was threatened with prison, I think, for removing her dad from care?

 

[jeany123]

One here
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-care-home-tells-terrifying-police-swoop.html

 

[treecol]

That's the one, thank you. I'll copy that & show them.

 

[lin1]

Hi, I think it is wise to have both LPA's
Hopefully the health and welfare one will never be needed, but it is good to have the big guns ready and waiting to be used if sadly they are ever needed.

 

[sue38]

I think if it's a question of cost and you have to make a choice between a Property and Affairs LPA and a Health and Welfare LPA I would go with the Property and Affairs one. It could be that this is what the solicitor is saying. Some solicitors might offer a discount if you're doing both as a lot of the work is duplicated, so it's worth asking.

 

[Spamar]

If it's money, you can download forms and do your own for £110. Solicitors cost, oh, maybe £400?

 

[vernumamy]

I started another thread about LPA as I have a different question - hope it's ok.
DH & I have LPA for my Dad. His solicitor was very clear on the importance of both & we have found the health/welfare one very useful. Now DH's parents need him & his brother to have LPA as their health is getting worse. However I spoke to the family solicitor today who said the health one isn't needed. I disagreed based on experience with my dad. The solicitor said next of kin always have more say than any health professionals. He said they just try it on but under the mental capacity act don't have more power/say than next of kin. Surely this isn't correct. I'm sure I've read lots on here about problems people have without LPA.
Could you post any info I can print out & show the family & the solicitor? Thanks in advance.

Hello treecol,

My daughter is a community staff nurse, she always tell's me that people should have health and welfare, as well as financial power of attorney's.

Health and welfare isn't always about mental capacity, people can be injured in accidents, and not be able to speak up for themselves, and I am fairly certain that next of kin do not have more say than health professionals, without power of attorney.

 

[nitram]

"...Health and welfare isn't always about mental capacity, people can be injured in accidents, and not be able to speak up for themselves,..."

A H&W LPA can only be used when it has been shown that the donor is not capable of making the specific decision themselves.

In a contentious situation this could involve a COP3

 

[angelface]

Please get the health and wefare POA. I wanted to move my aunt to a different CH as she is self funded and I am next of kin.
SW stepped in and would not allow it. There, is a finance Deputy, but no welfare POA as auntie would no allow it..
So as there is legally no one with power for health, SS are deemed to be responsible, even tho
I as NOK am trying to fight them off.

 

[vernumamy]

Hello treecol,

My daughter is a community staff nurse, she always tell's me that people should have health and welfare, as well as financial power of attorney's.

Health and welfare isn't always about mental capacity, people can be injured in accidents, and not be able to speak up for themselves, and I am fairly certain that next of kin do not have more say than health professionals, without power of attorney.

Further to my post,

A month ago, my father ( 79 ) as part of his disturbed behaviour ( vascular dementia ), went " climbing " in his nursing home, he had gone into the toilet and started to climb up onto the toilet cystern, a height of about 4 feet or so, trying to dismantle the smoke detector in the ceiling.

He fell, with one of his legs landing in the toilet, getting it stuck in the soil pipe and fell backwards.

He broke both of the bones in his leg, on either side of his ankle.

I got a phone call from the nursing home, to advise me of the situation, and I told them I would be waiting at the local A& E.

( After my mothers diagnosis of AD, my mother and father both made Enduring Power of Attorney's, which were the power of attorney before LPA's came on the scene.

Unfortunately, these only covered financial power's of attorney, so no health and welfare. )

When my father arrived at hospital, the doctor explained that the next morning my father would need to be operated on, to plate and pin his bones.

He told me that he had the right to make that decision, because of my father's mental capacity, and that I needed to sign as his next of kin, " just to acknowledge what he had said to me ".

The bottom line was, that I got the impression that I didn't really have much input, without power of attorney.

After speaking to my daughter today ( community nurse ), she confirmed that with or without power of attorney, that for medical needs, the doctor in the patients best interest, has the final say.

 

[treecol]

Thank you all for your replies, really helpful. I'm going to read through the forms & see if I can do them. Having already got LPA for my dad, I'm more familiar with things this time round. But today after meeting all the family with the Daily Mail story in hand, everyone agreed that we should get both LPA's. The solicitor quoted £780 for his work plus £440 court fees - bearing in mind two parents, two sets of LPA's. So let's see if I can do them!

 

[Beate]

To be honest, creating an LPA is actually no great shakes. You can very easily do it online, and as long as you have all the details you need (the attorneys and certificate provider plus their addresses etc.) it's just a question of filling it in, and once you've done one you can duplicate it for the other. There are plenty of guidance notes and all the solicitor does is fill in the details you give him anyway as the decision on how many attorneys and people to be told you want is not down to the solicitor, it's down to you. I wouldn't pay a penny for that, especially as you could ask a charity like Age UK to help you with it if you really get stuck. Save yourself £780 and only pay the registration fees of £110 per LPA!