Professional help with sizing up mum's finances?

[Fearnodarkness]

We are looking around to try and find out where my MIL can move to (a flat basically) where she will get some social life and have someone on call, but which she can afford (she will be self funding).

I am working through her finances, but even with information from flat managers, I can see that there will be so many unknowns. For example, the best location for her would require her to take several thousand pounds a year out of whatever she gets when she sells her house.

Are there such things as experts who can assess someone's finances for just this purpose to work out how well they will last through future changes? I was thinking of just asking an accountant friend, and then thought "isn't there anyone who specializes in this kind of case?"

I also ought to try and find out about insurance for care home costs, though the only passing references I have seen so far would not be affordable. I really am a beginner at this. It's only just crossed into my consciousness that the MIL will not "save" very much on home maintenance in a flat from what she spends on her house, because of standing charges and so on.

Has anyone any experiences?

 

[cf1611]

We are looking around to try and find out where my MIL can move to (a flat basically) where she will get some social life and have someone on call, but which she can afford (she will be self funding).

I am working through her finances, but even with information from flat managers, I can see that there will be so many unknowns. For example, the best location for her would require her to take several thousand pounds a year out of whatever she gets when she sells her house.

Are there such things as experts who can assess someone's finances for just this purpose to work out how well they will last through future changes? I was thinking of just asking an accountant friend, and then thought "isn't there anyone who specializes in this kind of case?"

I also ought to try and find out about insurance for care home costs, though the only passing references I have seen so far would not be affordable. I really am a beginner at this. It's only just crossed into my consciousness that the MIL will not "save" very much on home maintenance in a flat from what she spends on her house, because of standing charges and so on.

Has anyone any experiences?

There are advisers who may be able to help. You should look for someone who is a member of SOLLA (Society of Later Life Advisers) They will often give some advise for free.

 

[cragmaid]

I can't help with the finance side....I have done Mum's accounts for years and as she is entering " end of life" care now, I don't think I'll have to worry that her finances will last. But I trust that your Mum is receiving the correct benefits such as Attendance Allowance, Pensions Credit if applicable, and Council Tax discount?
What I was wondering though, was why you think your Mum should move from her present home. This was suggested as an option for my Mum before she went into residential care and I vetoed it because I could see no advantage in uprooting Mum ( who is blind now although she had some small amount of sight then) for her be forced into a new layout, with neighbours she did not know and in an area with which she was not familiar.I understand the concept of a 24/7 warden is appealing, however is your mother able to remember that there is a call cord/button to bring assistance?

Have a look on Age UK's website under Care Home or Sheltered Accommodation funding costs. You might get some information about the fees insurance too.

I wish you good luck wading through what is, at times, like wading through a treacle filled lake

 

[Bod]

Do you have, or are still able to get, Power of Attorney?
This will make dealing with banks etc. much easier.
Indeed any finanical professional, worth having, shouldn't speak to you, about your mums finances without one.

Bod

 

[rajahh]

There are very few retirement complexes with warden 24/7 now. I live in a retirement complex and our warden/manager is only available Mon to Frid 8.30.a.m. until 4.30.p.m.

There is an alarm cord system which would respond if the cords are pulled at whatever time this was needed but if uour mother is too frail too understand this then thatis not much help.

MAny complexes do not have many structured social gatherings, . We do have coffee morning once a week and an afternoon cup of tea session once a week too, but then the rest of the time there is only one meeting a month.

If your mother would appreciate an alarm cord system then there is something available for her own home, and she could wear a pendant instead of having cords . there are a few agencies offering this kind of help.

I agree about the disadvantage of moving someone if they are close to needing more full time care. Moving is traumatic, and learning new systems, new neighbours, new bus times can be very difficult

Jeannette

 

[Chemmy]

Hello Fearnodarkness

It might be better to look at renting rather than purchasing an assisted living flat (if that's what you were thinking about) as it is unlikely to be a long term solution for your MIL.

These properties tend to be more suitable for those with physical disabilities rather than dementia. My mum was offered a place in one, but I turned it down as, by that stage, she was finding it impossible to adapt to new surroundings or make new friends - tbh, I think she would have been viewed by the other residents as distinctly 'odd'. I doubt if they would have meant it unkindly, but some were there because they had their own health problems and it didn't seem fair to burden them further with hers.

Mum went straight from her own home to an appropriate residential care home as she needed 24 hour supervision and company. As Jeanette says, your mum is unlikely to get that in an apartment and could end up very lonely.

 

[WILLIAMR]

Hello Fearnodarkness

It might be better to look at renting rather than purchasing an assisted living flat (if that's what you were thinking about) as it is unlikely to be a long term solution for your MIL.

These properties tend to be more suitable for those with physical disabilities rather than dementia. My mum was offered a place in one, but I turned it down as, by that stage, she was finding it impossible to adapt to new surroundings or make new friends - tbh, I think she would have been viewed by the other residents as distinctly 'odd'. I doubt if they would have meant it unkindly, but some were there because they had their own health problems and it didn't seem fair to burden them further with hers.

Mum went straight from her own home to an appropriate residential care home as she needed 24 hour supervision and company. As Jeanette says, your mum is unlikely to get that in an apartment and could end up very lonely.

Hi

I certainly would not get involved in buying a retirement flat if dement is beginning to set in.
My step mother went from being fairly normal to getting violent over about 4 months.
Unfortunately myself and her son had no experience of dementia but she could not have helped herself if the son had not arrived home one night for example.
I would do no more than rent.

William

 

[Witzend]

One thing to bear in mind is that given the restricted market, retirement type flats can be difficult to sell, which may be an important factor if you should need to later, for care home fees.

 

[WILLIAMR]

One thing to bear in mind is that given the restricted market, retirement type flats can be difficult to sell, which may be an important factor if you should need to later, for care home fees.

I have to agree with you here Wizard.
There is a block about 2 miles from where I live which was built about 3 years ago.
Some have not had first owner's yet and there are some second hand ones up for sale in the same block.
Obviously the second hand ones will have to be sold at a lot lower price than the new ones.


William

 

[Raggedrobin]

The other thing is that the maintenance fees on these flats can be quite a lot per annum and can go up a great deal.

 

[Spiro]

One thing to bear in mind is that given the restricted market, retirement type flats can be difficult to sell, which may be an important factor if you should need to later, for care home fees.

That's an interesting observation. I was unaware that retirement type flats were difficult to sell.

Is this another example of a postcode lottery?

 

[Fearnodarkness]

Hi thank you for your input.

Yes many of the points raised we have come across.

The main reason she wants to move now (on the days when she does want to move, which seem to be the majority) is because she wants more company ... she used to go out and arrange her own company, but dropped out of some things, seems reluctant to try others (even at the club she frequents) and only has a couple of friends who will go out with her or invite her round.

I don't think she is going to be able to live happily in her home now until the needs full time care, that is the problem. She isn't happy at the moment, and she doesn't like the idea of buying in care to be some company for her a couple of mornings a week. I don't know how far we can push ideas which may help her or may just make her angry.

She is at present fully able to look after herself and her house, with the help of a monthly cleaner, but she is getting more forgetful. I feel we are at a crossroads that I don't understand and can't see what is coming. She is very reluctant to mention this to her doctor (who she rarely goes to - she is in good health) "in case he stops her driving". Which he may well do. Yet we know she won't get any treatment (if there is any) unless she does ask her doctor.

I would love to try a rental, but there aren't any retirement rentals in the area she knows and wants to stay in. At present there's no point her moving unless she can move somewhere where there are other people there too.

She's already started telling her small roster of friends that I have told her "she can't afford to move to the flats", which is her take on being told some weeks ago that I need to look through her finances.

I will look into SOLLA. I think I ought to try and talk to a legal executive who is a family friend and see if he has any views or experience on things like the "part exchange scheme" which is offered by some developments. Of course this is a way for them to get more money out of the buyer, but it may also make moving smoother, and this may be important.

I am pretty clear that you cannot buy independent or assisted living flats and hope that they will appreciate with the housing market - they seem to be a law unto themselves.

 

[BLONDY]

I was offered this option by people who should have known better, moving will exasperate condition it is an unnecessary expense. When the time comes use your time and energy to find a good home. Self funders it seems are encouraged to waste their money on making other people richer to the detriment of the patient.
Kind Regards
Blondy

Sent from my LC0901D using Talking Point mobile app

 

[Pickles53]

This sounds so familiar, mum can just about manage personal care and some household tasks at home but that is 60 miles from us, she is increasingly miserable at home alone most of time as she can't get out at all unless I am visiting. Like you we have looked at the specialist housing you can buy into and concluded this is not the answer. Having struggled to find a buyer/renter for the retirement flat we inherited from my parents-in-law for months while still paying full council tax and service charge for a completely empty property, I would not want to do it again especially for what might be a very short time.

Renting options near us are also very limited, mainly controlled by council priority waiting list which we think mum would not be high on as can still cope just at home. Even if we found one, we are not convinced it would be workable, even mum's MH nurse thinks she would not manage well in a strange location. So we are coming to the conclusion that if we can find the right care home that is the best option.

 

[Witzend]

That's an interesting observation. I was unaware that retirement type flats were difficult to sell.

Is this another example of a postcode lottery?

I don't think so - I have seen it in several different areas and thanks to the likes of zoopla you can see that properties have often been on the market for a long time and prices have been reduced bit by bit.

As someone else has said, the service/maintenance charges can be very high and this is bound to put off older people on limited incomes, esp. if they are dependent on income from savings, when interest rates are so pathetic at the moment.

 

[Fearnodarkness]

@pickles53 that sounds like a very similar situation.

But I don't think we can leave her at home, and she's not ready for a care home yet, even though she forgets a lot, she's still participating and arranging her own life. It would be like putting her in prison (well - she wouldn't go, end of story). So it looks like we have to bite the bullet and help her move. Yes, I am worried about the move making her worse, even though she thinks she wants to. And it will definitely only be an interim solution.

<worried>

 

[Forgetmenot%]

research & help

Really sounds like mum is at a crossroads and mving or staying and getting care at home is not easy conversation to broach - such a senstive subject but you must look into getting a power of attorney for her health & welfare decisions along with a financial one as things wil only get worse when it comes to decisions in the future and the last thing you want is to have to pay the Court of Protection fees - believe me. You can download the relevant POA forms and guidance notes on line from the Government site- they cost £130 each to register and take about 6 weeks. Or use a solicitor who specialises. SOLLA are also great for advice from the financial / Equity Release or mortgage and immediate needs annuity product solutions. Websites like Age / Alzheimers and Saga also have some really useful and straight forward guides on care, care funding. If your mum hasn't been assessed by her GP or the local authority you need to get this done asap as it takes ages and you could be missing out on benefits like attendance allowance, care allowance and council tax relief. Write everything down and keep chasing people for answers. Whilst your mum is at that stage of forgetfulness make some time to spend with her and broach these subjects, difficult but necessary - above all keep talking and ask for help. Good luck its the start of a long journey for both of you

 

[Pickles53]

@pickles53 that sounds like a very similar situation.

But I don't think we can leave her at home, and she's not ready for a care home yet, even though she forgets a lot, she's still participating and arranging her own life. It would be like putting her in prison (well - she wouldn't go, end of story). So it looks like we have to bite the bullet and help her move. Yes, I am worried about the move making her worse, even though she thinks she wants to. And it will definitely only be an interim solution.

<worried>

The one difference is that my mum is no longer really arranging her own life except for the most basic daily routines. She can't remember what shopping she needs if a neighbour offers to help, she can't deal with any official correspondence especially if it involves making phone calls, she can't cook a meal, she can't plan ahead eg to book a taxi to go to the doctors or hairdressers (and wouldn't remember it even if she had booked) and is too afraid of falling to go out alone. Basically if I don't suggest it to her, organise it, and chauffeur her it doesn't happen.

Today I thought I would have to write my own birthday card for next week while doing cards for two of her friends. She didn't want me to do that, but I will be very surprised if she remembers to do it herself and to ask someone to post it. I don't know why that particular thought upsets me so much, maybe just that mum herself always saw it as very important to remember birthdays, anniversaries etc.

Going a bit off-topic there, perhaps it was just that while writing it hit home to me just how many things that would once have been taken for granted are now beyond her.

 

[Sussexwench]

Hi,

I'm in a similar situation myself with my mother. I think that it depends very much upon the person and what's important to them so each situation is unique.

Last year my mother wanted to move nearer to me and at the time I did not want to buy an extracare apartment for all the reasons posted . I found that my borough had reserved practically all extra care retirement rental apartments for those already in social housing and there was only one place that was able to recommend self-funded cases to the council. When I approached them they told me that they would have to have 11 flats available before they could even consider taking my mother.

In the end I found a unique place with 11 flats attached to a nursing home - to purchase. As my mother never wanted to move into a care home and her possessions are very important to her, I've gone ahead and bought this even though in my heart, I am aware that a care home will be inevitable soon - but I also know that she is not yet ready for just a single room and this flat will be still be a safer option than living on her own entirely as she is at present. It is a last gift of independence.

A double move is certainly to be avoided where possible. In our case, I don't think it can be avoided. All you can do is to make the best decision you can in the interest of your loved ones . Do that and do not be too hard on yourself afterwards.

With regards to financial advice, check out Solla and also ask the care homes that you visit - they may recommend advisers. They can give you advice as a consultation but the fees can be pretty high once you take up a plan so search around. Still, take this step before you make any decisions about selling. Of course apply for attendance allowance and make sure you pester your local council for a proper assessment- as they are strapped for cash , they will do anything they can to avoid giving you support - even tell porkies if my mother's borough is anything to go by.

 

[Fearnodarkness]

<glum>

Thank you for your insights. This seems to be a situation which isn't uncommon, and yet there seems to be no clear pathway through it.

Things have moved on: the place in her own area that she wanted to go to has turned her down because they noticed she didn't remember previous visits. That's it: no assessment, no appeal, it's a private company, they have the right to refuse her application.

After a desperate attempt to ask them for advice, the lady did point me at a partner establishment at the other end of town, saying that they offer nursing support.

It's very expensive, and she doesn't know anyone there, but it's in a reasonable area for shopping and some of her social activities. I am becoming a bit uneasy though, as although they do offer more in the way of personal care, it's all basic stuff like help with shopping and medicine reminders. This is mainly stuff she can do herself or with our help, that would have been just as true at the other place.

I can only hope that she pointed me there because they may give more leeway, as they have more resources onboard ...

I think the main concern is whether someone who is forgetful will settle in OK and not be really confused. I admit I am concerned about this myself, and it often gets mentioned that a move can set people back.

There seem to be very few places that allow people to have their "own place" and also have some social life, yet are willing to allow someone with even mild memory issues to come in.

Someone suggested housing associations, but they all seem to be controlled by the Councils. There's a "village" not too far from here, but only people in the local council tax area qualify to apply, and we are outside it.

I tried asking if there is such a thing as a professional adviser who can steer us through this kind of minefield (a sort of estate agent in reverse), but apparently there isn't - it's such minefield that this seems to be an area where nobody is even trying to make money from the families by giving professional advice Care homes seem to be better documented, but at present she really isn't looking for a care home.

We accepted that we might have to "bale her out" of somewhere in 2 or 3 years, but it seems that we don't even get that option.