CHC for dad while In care home

nanlaine

Registered User
Feb 13, 2012
50
0
Hi, I've posted this on the wrong site, so posting on here hoping it's the right site. Dad is in late stage Alzheimer's, incontinent, needs help feeding, no communication that makes any sense, etc etc, he pays full fees via a charge on his bungalow and his state and private pension and AA, I wondered if anyone on here has managed to obtain continuing healthcare for their loved one, I've been told that it hardly ever gets awarded to dementia patients, but have decided to get my dad assessed and see exactly what the outcome will be, any help, advice, guidance would be appreciated.


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Not so Rosy

Registered User
Nov 30, 2013
578
0
My Mum who had Dementia was awarded CHC and my Dad who has mixed Dementia was awarded it less than two weeks ago. Professionals took the lead in both cases and my input was purely as their personal representative.

Having said all that Dad got sectioned on Friday and today I was told we will have to go through the whole process again when he is discharged from hospital. :mad:

It is a difficult process but doable.
 

Rheme

Registered User
Nov 23, 2013
159
0
England
Hi Nanlaine

Re CHC Funding see post below which I received from forum member.

To understand this process you must try to get up to speed with the national
framework for CHC

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...inuing-healthcare-and-nhs-funded-nursing-care

This is a long read but you must try to understand some of the basics.
Funded nursing care can only be granted once a full MDT assessment has been conducted.
If you achieve full CHC funding then ALL your dad's care costs will be met by the NHS.
As they should because your dad's statutory right is to receive free NHS care at the point of need if he is ill or disabled.

Although some may disagree with this.

My family and I followed all the advice given, read all the information via the link, did a dummy assessment before the actual meeting. Visualise your dad internally and externally from head to toe whilst doing the dummy assessment as it will be surprising what you come up with.

Remember your dad's condition is what it would be if he did not take his medications.

Google the chc assessors in your area or contact the primary care trust. It should be a multi disciplinary team along with yourselves in attendance at the assessment and not just a social worker and care home/nursing home manager as they tried to do in my mum's case.

Good luck.
 

crazyfish

Registered User
Oct 12, 2012
288
0
Hi, I've posted this on the wrong site, so posting on here hoping it's the right site. Dad is in late stage Alzheimer's, incontinent, needs help feeding, no communication that makes any sense, etc etc, he pays full fees via a charge on his bungalow and his state and private pension and AA, I wondered if anyone on here has managed to obtain continuing healthcare for their loved one, I've been told that it hardly ever gets awarded to dementia patients, but have decided to get my dad assessed and see exactly what the outcome will be, any help, advice, guidance would be appreciated.

Hi Nanlaine,
Firstly the advice given by Rheme is good advice please check out what they have said.
The fact is there are thousands of dementia patients in receipt of CHC funding .

There are however many more who should but don't receive it and there are thousands of people fighting to get what is a statutory right to free NHS care for their sick relatives.
There are also thousands fighting in retrospect for CH fees that were paid by people selling property to fund care when it was actually the responsibility of the NHS to pay.
As far as I am concerned and this is my personal opinion Dementia /Altzheimers is an illness and should be treated as such by the NHS.
Anyone with this disease which they have acquired through no fault of their own should receive free NHS care at the point of need the same as everyone else who is a UK citizen.
This is the law.
However the the NHS want to circumnavigate the law and pass over the elderly to the SS so they can be charged for their care.
This is totally immoral and despicable.
People who take drugs,drink or have smoking related illnesses get free treatment so why should the elderly pay again .
The reason is they are an easy and vulnerable target.
Some people even on this site believe that if an elderly person with dementia can afford to pay for their care then they should.
This however is not my opinion.
Our elderly should be given the best possible treatment in their final years even if the rest of us have to pay a bit more in taxes.
However I don't expect everyone to agree with this.
Thousands of people have been bullied by the NHS and SS into signing over or selling their relatives property to fund care.
But many have now come to realize that this doesn't need to be the case but to achieve funding for anyone involves a lot of research determination and sheer perseverance.
I achieved funding for my father after just a few months of arguments with the then PCT he had dementia.
So it can be done don't be put off by what others say .
Read as much as you can and make your own mind up.
If you want download Ian Perkin vs NHS. On U tube he gives a very clear description of the CHC process without going into too much legal jargon.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTEsCg0AnTI
Good luck and don't give up.
Mick

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nanlaine

Registered User
Feb 13, 2012
50
0
Cheers mick, extremely helpful thank you. I have made a start but the care home my dad is in has no manager at the moment and the assistant manager on holiday for 3 weeks, been told nobody else can put wheels in motion just have to wait till she is back from holiday, but will use the time to clue myself up on it and be prepared - cheers everyone for your advice


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Duncan

Registered User
Oct 14, 2009
5
0
west london
We eventually got CHC funding for my dad to go to a care home from hospital but he died three days later.He was in a terrible state & the funding was to be reviewed after 3 months.Like some kind of sick joke really.
 

nanlaine

Registered User
Feb 13, 2012
50
0
Oh dear Duncan that's terrible. The system stinks, makes me bitter and twisted, so unfair.


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Cornishman

Registered User
May 27, 2013
384
0
Duncan - I'm sorry to hear about your father. With regard to your posts: in my view your message very much contributes to the subject matter as it shows the injustice of "the system" and how there is a disconnect between budget led decision making (somebody will probably be along in a minute to tell me it's not!) and the reality of dealing with the stress, emotions and sadness of dealing with one's loved ones who are suffering from an illness. Perhaps a cliché, but it really is a national disgrace, but hidden from view for the most part. If we treated sick children like this, and told parents they'd have to sell their house to pay for care, one can only imagine the public reaction. But vulnerable people with usually no voice, and often their families, are quite frankly bullied - I know that's how I feel I've been treated.

On the wider topic of CHC assessments, some will know from my previous posts my mother has had her CHC eligibility withdrawn by a CCG team that clearly set out to do just that - it is no exaggeration to say they resorted to mistruths and deliberate downplaying of my mum's extensive needs (that they themselves recognised in 2009 when they granted her CHC after a 6 year wait), and had a total disregard for the process laid down in the NHS framework document, in order to withdraw her funding. They wrote with almost breathless haste to tell us all invoices received from the CH would be forwarded to me. The appeal was a farce, including at one point the CCG telling us on the mobility domain that although they recognised my mother was totally immobile, it was the "wrong kind of immobility" to warrant a higher score.

I've now seen the Ian Perkin video, and have spent the last few days "beating myself up" a bit wishing I'd similarly told the NHS what they were doing was unlawful: as they had a contract with the CH from 2009, I wonder whether I should have taken the same stance - in other words, refused to pay the invoices and challenged them to take me to court. Although I suspect it would have been the CH who would have taken legal action against the family (I have POA) - I'm not sure how that would have worked.

This week I've applied to the Local Authority ombudsman (not the Health ombudsman), asking for our case to be considered, on the basis a member of the LA SS sat on the Joint Decision Panel and, using data including the DST which was (wait for it!) 12 months old, and medical and CH records as much as 15 months old, and who stated in the decision letter that my mother was (quote) "within the scope of what the LA could lawfully manage". How on earth could she do that? And why did she ignore the guidance saying the DST should not be more than 28 days old? Totally unprofessional. But hey...why let that get in the way of allowing the NHS to get off the hook?

As Mick says - Where they can't get to where they want to be by due process or reason, they resort to bullying, malpractice and manipulating rules or findings to suit the required outcome.

It really has to stop.

I'm hopeful the IRP will support us.

Good luck to all those fighting for justice too.
 

Rheme

Registered User
Nov 23, 2013
159
0
England
Nanlaine,

Find the CHC Assessors for your area. What is your dad's location? Ask the hospital/your dad's doctor/social workers for the contact details or google it.

There will be plenty of people on here to point you in the right direction/help/assit.

The more time you wait the more money your dad is paying for his care when he could be entitled to NHS funding.

From what you have posted your dad stands a good chance of CHC Funding. Push the authoritiies and get the information you need to get the ball rolling.

Good Luck.
 

Cornishman

Registered User
May 27, 2013
384
0
Nanlaine,


From what you have posted your dad stands a good chance of CHC Funding.

.

Rheme / Nanlaine

I really don't want to put a dampener on things or disillusion anyone, but I think it's worth putting some context on the chances of CHC funding:

Firstly, it's known that CCGs have significant differences in their policy, procedures and awards of CHC eligibility. Where I live the CCG awards 4 times the number of CHC cases per capita than the neighbouring CCG where my mother is, as validated data from NHS sources in the public domain. Hopefully you'll be in one of the "better" CCGs.

My mother, on NHS advice following 4 week assessment period by a consultant psychologist for older people said she was at risk because of her Alzheimer's dementia condition and needed to go into a EMI care-home permanently.

That was 11 years ago. We were self-funding for the ensuing 6 years.

The NHS finally deemed my mother as CHC eligible in 2009 on the basis my mother was:

Totally immobile (hoisted when required, bathed in bed, would be evacuated in an emergency in a ski-pad etc)
Special pneumatic mattress because of history of bed-sores that on occasions have become infected. Has skin problems and needs to be turned regularly and condition monitored.
Unable to understand or communicate at all - no recognition of family.
Doubly incontinent.
Prone to chest infections and had a variety of prescribed drugs administered.
Spoon fed at all times with thickened food to avoid choking owing to swallowing difficulties.
Was discharged from hospital in 2003 with a discharge letter that said my mother was at risk and needed care for the remainder of her life.

In 2013 her CHC eligibility was WITHDRAWN by the CCG despite the fact her condition had worsened since CHC granted with a corresponding increase in nursing needs.

I recognise we have had to contend with a particularly difficult CCG, but the purpose of this message is to encourage you to be wary of CCGs and others and to demonstrate how easy it is to become complacent because an individual appears to "tick the boxes". In other words, my advice would be to be as hard as nails and don't let people talk you into anything less than CHC if your father qualifies - from what Nanlaine has said there does indeed look like there's a case for CHC eligibility. I hate to say this but in my experience don't trust anyone as they'll say one thing and then "write up" another, and then you're faced with an uphill struggle to establish eligibility from a fairly disadvantaged position.

In our case, there is prima-facie documentary evidence (again in the public domain) stemming from 2012 - just 3 months before before they arrived at my mother's CH and took away her eligibility - that the CCG had agreed with the LA SS to reduce the number of CHC eligible cases, which will form part of our ongoing fight for justice for my mum and the family.

As I said earlier, please accept this message in the spirit of trying to be helpful rather than being pessimistic, but forewarned is forearmed.

Best wishes and good luck.
 
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