Carers kissing and cuddling CH residents

angelface

Registered User
Oct 8, 2011
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london
I think it just depends on how your relative feels about being tactile.

My older aunt with dementia was very tactile, which I found odd as she was an unmarried maiden lady (very maiden in fact, never had a boyfriend, stayed home with mum).

One of my fondest memories of her in the CH, was her waving goodbye, and cuddling the lead nurse at the same time. He was one of the biggest Nigerians I have ever seen.

She died on 23rd May last year. God bless her, she did so enjoy her cuddles:)
 

Witzend

Registered User
Aug 29, 2007
4,283
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SW London
I think the carers' behaviour should be modified to each individual resident. It shouldn't be too hard to judge those who like it and those who object; should it?

I do so agree. Not everyone by any means is touchy-feely, but a lot of kissy-huggy stuff has become fashionable (if that's the right word) and I think many people have come to think it's normal - we all ought to like it and there's something wrong with us if we don't. Well, &*^%$*! to that!
 

stanleypj

Registered User
Dec 8, 2011
10,712
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North West
Absolutely agree. As always, everyone's different. Some people love to be hugged and 'made a fuss of'. Some don't. A sensitive carer will pick up on what people like and dislike. I'm not particularly 'touchy-feely' but if I was in a care home I can imagine that physical contact might become more welcome.

I don't think it's something about which you can and hard and fast rules.
 

meme

Registered User
Aug 29, 2011
1,953
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London
I do think ruffling someones hair is a no no for most people!.....personal space and affection is something else, and I guess in the great scheme of things there are worse behaviours by carers....but of course if a person objects/is uncomfortable then this should be respected most definately
 

Karjo

Registered User
Jan 11, 2012
481
0
Just a thought and I may well be wrong , but could this be a way that carers gradually accustom their clients to close contact so that they are more used to this when they reach the stage of needing personal care.
Even if its not the case maybe its a question you could ask as a way of broaching the subject ( sorry if broaching is misspelt - having a rotten day and senior moment and mind gone blank)
 

DeborahBlythe

Registered User
Dec 1, 2006
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I think if anyone had ruffled my mums hair I would have bitten their hand off. Getting her hair to look nice took a lot of time and trouble, whether done by the hairdresser or by me, up in her room. I hated it when, in the final week of her life, a hairstyle I had lovingly created on the Sunday had been brushed flat against her head like a criminals crop in about 24 hours. Made me so mad.
If your mum expressed herself so clearly, I think its only right that you let the home know. No ,its not a hanging offence, but it will do no harm to let them know that your mums preferences matter.
 

CollegeGirl

Registered User
Jan 19, 2011
9,525
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North East England
I do so agree. Not everyone by any means is touchy-feely, but a lot of kissy-huggy stuff has become fashionable (if that's the right word) and I think many people have come to think it's normal - we all ought to like it and there's something wrong with us if we don't. Well, &*^%$*! to that!

I know what you mean. My two daughters regularly hug their friends, but my mam and dad would only hug and touch close family. I'm a bit in between the two and although I love hugging my girls, hubby and parents, I would only hug a friend if I knew they were comfortable with it. It depends on the situation and on the person, dementia or not, and no-one should be forced to endure it, no matter how innocent and well intentioned it may be. The carer can always show their fondness for someone in other ways that the person is more comfortable with (an extra bickie at bedtime for example!)
 

Katrine

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
2,837
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England
I agree with the comments about head patting and hair ruffling - when is that ever anything but patronising?

My mum hates people touching her face. Even I ask permission because she can get very angry. From her point of view she is seated and vulnerable, and people are swooping at her, which she finds very threatening and rude. If I go to kiss her and she's giving me the fishy eye then I change tack and just go and stroke her arm.

I have now become sufficiently continental to hug people who aren't close family but if they swoop in for a kiss I shy away like a startled pony. There's something extremely intimate about having someone's face so close to your own. Don't get me started on the dentist and the optician, I hate having them loom over me, peering at me at close quarters!
 

reno

Registered User
Feb 28, 2011
103
0
Hey - I thought it was just me with the optician! I always feel like he is going to kiss me full on the lips when he looms in front of my face.

And when they puff that puff of air in your eyes I literally have to stop myself from hitting out at the person doing it. I'm sure I will one day .

Going back to CH tomorrow. Will see how land lies. Glad that
a) no-one thinks I'm being weird about this
b) equally, no-one thinks that I need to alert the media/SS about potential sexual abuse scandal either ... :eek:
 

garnuft

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
6,585
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Laughing at Katrines' Mums 'fishy eye'....I know that look very well. :)

My Mam is a kisser on the lips, only of family I hasten to add, she doesn't get the kissing strangers lark, never has.... very worrying for her air-kissing grandchildren...

but she has taken to puckering up for a kiss and when you're millimetres away, she starts talking so you end up kissing her teeth.
Doesn't bother me in the least but extra worrying for her great-grandchildren. :)
 

Dikimiki

Registered User
Jun 26, 2012
143
0
Wales
Care needed

Hey - I thought it was just me with the optician! I always feel like he is going to kiss me full on the lips when he looms in front of my face.

And when they puff that puff of air in your eyes I literally have to stop myself from hitting out at the person doing it. I'm sure I will one day .

Going back to CH tomorrow. Will see how land lies. Glad that
a) no-one thinks I'm being weird about this
b) equally, no-one thinks that I need to alert the media/SS about potential sexual abuse scandal either ... :eek:

I would advise you that even an innocuous query regarding the carer, either with the manager or the actual carer himself, could result in you being regarded as a trouble maker with resentment building up against both your mum and yourself.
This happened to me when I queried the quality of my wife's care when she suffered an unprovoked attack by another patient, and the ill effects were long lasting.
 

reno

Registered User
Feb 28, 2011
103
0
Yes, I'm aware that I need to treat this very carefully. I think I am quite good at approaching people tactfully. If they react badly, then I don't think this will be my fault.

If the care home react in any negative way towards my setting forward my legitimate concerns politely, then it would basically show them up to be a bad care home and I'd have to think carefully about what to do about that ...
 

Dikimiki

Registered User
Jun 26, 2012
143
0
Wales
Be extra careful

Yes, I'm aware that I need to treat this very carefully. I think I am quite good at approaching people tactfully. If they react badly, then I don't think this will be my fault.

If the care home react in any negative way towards my setting forward my legitimate concerns politely, then it would basically show them up to be a bad care home and I'd have to think carefully about what to do about that ...

Please, I do not want to give you the impression that I am a control freak or paranoid in any way, but let's assume that the care home does react badly.
It will be irrelevant as to whether the reaction is your fault or not. So called 'experts' in the care business do not take kindly to any query about anything pertaining to the way they work. The family relative knows nothing and expects too much. Once it is fixed in their minds that you are out to criticise them, they will close ranks and become awkward.
A friend of mine complained to a consultant that one of his staff was a blatant liar, he did not even ask who it was ... he knew .. but did nothing! It is a clique protecting each other.
Please think about whether you can set up an alternative care facility before being hasty. All we want is the best for our relations but this desire is regarded as over expectation by the people at the front line!
However, you must act as you think fit, and good luck, you might need it.
 

DeborahBlythe

Registered User
Dec 1, 2006
9,222
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If the care home react in any negative way towards my setting forward my legitimate concerns politely, then it would basically show them up to be a bad care home and I'd have to think carefully about what to do about that ...

Spot on, Reno.
 

ggma

Registered User
Feb 18, 2012
1,126
0
North Staffordshire
I would be very concerned in your position the way you describe the man approaching and possibly putting on a show for your benefit raises alarm bells for me. Is it a control mechanism, what else does he do when no one is around?
Affection towards residents can be holding a hand or even an arm round someone distressed, but why touch and kiss someone when they happy and with their family?
I would not trust this man and speak to the Manager and ask what guidance they give to staff about physical contact with residents.
 

Katrine

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
2,837
0
England
At last someone else has said what I was thinking. It could be a demonstration of control, and IF (a big if) this person is an abuser he will get great pleasure from parading his control in full sight of relatives.
 
Cultural - definitely

Greekophile here - this of the kissing and hugging I find strange as here in Greece everyone who knows someone when they meet in the street,supermarket, hairdressers etc always double kiss in welcome - just like shaking hands but so much more personal. Even our GP welcomes us into her consulting room with a double kiss and says goodbye the same way:) Even the blokes greet each other this way. Maybe its the old adage blokes dont cry or care. What is wrong with a bit of hugging and kissing as a for of comfort and careing - not everything has to be assessed as a sexual approach
 

Katrine

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
2,837
0
England
I didn't think it was sexual, that's not the only kind of abuse. Abuse can be teasing and taunting; unwanted physical contact that gratifies the toucher not the touchee; it can be witholding treats or comforts, refusing to take someone to the toilet etc. etc.

IMO getting physical with someone, including ruffling their hair, in front of relatives is not very respectful and could potentially be a way for someone who was abusive in private to enjoy parading their control in plain sight.
 

Taz

Registered User
Jul 7, 2007
118
0
Sussex
As has already been said, different strokes for different strokes.
At Dad's CH they are all very 'touchy feely' and Mum finds it very comforting to know that the carers will and do give someone a hug or a kiss....that there is an emotional attachment of sorts. From her perspective she finds a sense of relief that the people who care for Dad will give him the benefit of human contact when she isn't there.
It does have a very extended family style atmosphere, the carers will give family members a hug too if they are upset but I have never, ever seen anything that I would class as inappropriate (I come from a Child Protection background and work with vulnerable people so my radar is pretty much permanently on!)......just human beings trying to comfort other folk at difficult times.
A couple of family members of residents have asked that this does not happen with their loved ones and this has been respected.....however other family members have then contradicted this so the carers seem to have to alter their approach depending upon who is visiting!
One of the Managers there told me that the company ethos is that all elderly folk must be treated with respect and compassion and part of that is the thought that for many, a simple hug can provide enormous comfort. Many of the carers refer to residents as 'Uncle' or 'Auntie'.......from my Dad's perspective I can only say that he seems to like this and Mum doesn't mind as if he is happy, she is happy.
Further to this, if Mum is unwell or seems unhappy, one of the Managers always 'phones me to let me know and if she hasn't been in for a day they 'phone up to find out if she is ok.
Maybe for some that would be an intrusion, I can only speak from my personal opinion which is that for us it is this sense of being 'extended family' which allows for us all to feel comfortable with Dad being cared for by strangers, away from home.
The only time I have felt uncomfortable has been with agency staff who tend to be the ones who work nights and that was more to do with the level of care and the fact that things were going missing (across the board, not just Dad) and several family members mentioned this as a concern and the CH investigated it and I believe changed the agency they used.
If I thought he was in any way being cared for inappropriately or that he was at risk I would speak to someone immediately. All the carers who work with Dad are long term employees.......perhaps that makes a difference to.
Nothing about dealing with this kind of thing is easy, is it!
X
 

Peace and Truth

Registered User
Feb 20, 2012
17
0
Rutland
This is happening at the CH where my husband is now a resident. There is one male carer who seems to put on a 'show' whenever there is an audience; to me he seems much too familiar and touchy-feely with the ederly female residents. and it makes me uncomfortable to see and hear this.

He will approach the resident and speak loudly so all can hear, plonking a kiss on their cheek, giving them a cuddle and being over familiar in his conversation "Do you still love me?" etc. Other times I have heard him say to a bed-bound resident in a jokey voice "You're a bloody niusance X you can get out of bed and do XYZ if you wanted to"

Fortunately, he doesn't have much to do with my husband - if he did I would definitely ask him to stop, and I think you should say something to the person who is making you feel uncomfortable. Tell him that your mother is not used to such over familiar contact and ask him to rein it in. If he persists, THEN it is time to speak to the manager of the home, and confirm your complaint in writing.

He may just be trying to make her feel 'at home' but alternatively he may be enjoying her and your discomfort. Do something before it can escalate.