What purpose do these memory tests serve?

Acco

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Oct 3, 2011
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Nice

It appeared to me that the MMSE test was used as a tool more to ascertain if medication could be given, or should be stopped, to comply with the NICE guidelines which are more to do with cost than serving the patients best interest. Or am I being too cynical?
During all my wifes MMSE tests I was present as carer and whilst she was working hard on those, I was asked to complete two questionaires; one about how I saw my wifes situation in coping with her everyday tasks, and the second about how I was coping with it all. I was also invited to comment on some aspects of our dealing with the matter and also given the opportunity to consider action, services, etc that may be of benefit to us. These latter processes were seen and appreciated by me as the beneficial side to our visits to the memory clinic, whereas, as I have said, the MMSE appeared as a tool to comply with NICE guidelines.
 

bmw777

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Feb 10, 2013
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essex
I have mixed feelings about these test so we have to hope the results are used by professionals correctly, but I fear that is not always the case. My Dad had high scores in his two days ago whilst in hospital & based on that everyone says he can come home & needs no help in place there. WHAT!!!:eek::eek::eek:
What the tests fail to address is that he wants to go our alone, sees & hears people who aren't there, doesn't sleep well, doesn't want to eat, drink & wash, has bouts of incontinence, is very aggressive with me when I try to get him to do anything & lives in his own complete imaginary world where he is having a relationship with his TV den (seriously, he treats his room as a person). That's just some of his issues.


TREECOL ... YOU JUST DESCRIBED MY MUM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Norfolkgirl

Account Closed
Jul 18, 2012
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Hi Butter - yours was an interesting post, not least because of this: 'As soon as the psychiatrist started she moved up a gear into her standardised speed and rhythm.'

One could imagine that had the test been carried out by a psychiatrist who perhaps talked a little more slowly and carefully, you might both have had different results. Any test administered orally - and I understand that it has to be - immediately introduces a significant variable which certainly can't help in terms of a reliable and valid result.

I would also like a psychiatrist to try the test, not just once, but a few times. Be interesting to compare!
 

Carabosse

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Jan 10, 2013
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Mums CPN has been to see us this morning and did a mini assessment on mum, she tried to do it one day (as I mentioned before) when she was at daycare but she got really anxious, today wasn't much better. Mum was still anxious as she thinks people need an answer there and then and can't really wait for her to have a think about it, needless to say her score is down again. I did mention to the CPN that if you asked her the questions again in an hour she would probably answer them without a problem, to which the CPN agreed, so I really don't see why those assessments are done, I mean we can all see if our loved ones are getting worse we don't need a score on a piece of paper to tell us!
 

min88cat

Registered User
Apr 6, 2010
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Well, I can only speak from the experience of one session that my MIL had at the hospital - she was agitated after the car journey, scared when we got her into the wheelchair, at her wits end during the brain scan, hubbie had to accompany her as she thought she was being murdered..................... At the test afterwards, she scored 7 out of 30.......goodness knows what her blood pressure was at that point!

We knew she was nowhere near as bad as that, as a few weeks afterwards, the solicitor came out to see her to arrange POA. She knew exactly what was being done, and this was witnessed by an independent person also from the solicitors office.
 

Countryboy

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Mar 17, 2005
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South West
so many factors in weather the test is useful but as Acco said if you want the medication it’s a requirement with NICE that you have these tests my GP has told me he can only prescribe Donepezil Hydrochloride whilst I’m being seen at the NHS trust mental health unit , if they discharge me my medication would stop and I have been on Donepezil Hydrochloride since November 1999, I have two test a year one which is very in depth lasts for 1¾ to 2 hours doing various exercise and a consultation one a year , I continued working with dementia for eight years until age 65 so they must be helping me
so yes the test is important for us :)
 

Carabosse

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Jan 10, 2013
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How come the tests last for that length of time, mum has just had mini assessments, answering a few questions and the score added up, nothing in depth.
 

Countryboy

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Mar 17, 2005
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South West
How come the tests last for that length of time, mum has just had mini assessments, answering a few questions and the score added up, nothing in depth.

the long tests are carried out with a young Psychologist , a Neuropsychologist and Occupational Therapist and sometimes the Consultant in old age Psychiatry but I see him separately once a year, these test are in-depth possibly because my PET scans show a lot of damage to my Temporal-Lobes sometimes the test are longer than 2 hrs
 

rjm

Registered User
Jun 19, 2012
742
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Ontario, Canada
Sharon also had long test sessions sometimes. She was being looked after at a research/teaching hospital , her father was followed at a community hospital and only had an occasional MMSE. I think one is more interested in investigating what is going on and the other in just treating/managing the patient.
 

JMU

Registered User
Feb 17, 2012
155
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Cornwall
My dad had a nurse visit to do an mmse last week. She sat next to him and asked him all the usual questions. When it came to what date, day etc? my father did what he always did and looked at our copy of the TV guide next to him (which I always have to make sure is on the right page for this purpose). Th nurse told him he was cheating but this did not seem to factor into the overall results!
My father was always highly articulate and intelligent. When his decline came about it appeared very rapid (as I believe is common with people like him) and by the time we got someone to give him his first mmse it was 15. Since then it has dropped a few points (over a year) although the nurse actually failed to give me the result last week- she muttered something about it being much the same as last time then couldn't find it.
As for the drawing a picture- he was an artist- surely this is going to give his results some bias?
 

Anniewragby

Registered User
Mar 20, 2013
46
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different tests

Yesterday I was told my parents scored 36 and 58 out of 100 in a test - not clear which one......Anyone come across a test that scores out of 100? Ironically it is Mum who scored 58 but she is much more confused and worried than Dad!
 

soppysassy

Registered User
Jul 25, 2012
11
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Memory test

I am unsure about the memory test as my MIL passes everytime and has been diagnosed as having "cognitive impairement." This was last year but since then things have deteriorated quite a bit. We will have to speak with her GP and a mental health nurse next week. Our daughter cleans the flat now (MIL lives in a warden assisted flat) and has discovered eggs in her fridge dating back to last September, out of date chicken and ready meals etc. Also, MIL does not shower unless pressed to do so but has a sink wash. She remembers little and even tried to give our daughter presents back that she had been given for her 81st birthday. We are at our wits end but try to do our very best for her. My husband has chronic health problems so I am his carer too. I need to fill out a form for AA but was turned down last time. Another go won't hurt although it is a lot to fill in.
I do feel that professionals who may visit her for a short while every so often do not have the faintest idea what things are really like. It is fine to just pop in and our of her life but we never really get any answers or diagnosis. MIL constantly says she is ill and has been bedridden (not true) and yet she is going away to Torquay with her bowls club on the 29th of this month for 4 nights away! I really do not know how she will be on this trip and cannot help but worry. She has not played bowls for months.
 

Countryboy

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Mar 17, 2005
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South West
Hi rjm some glade to see your post about Sharon’s test sessions, I was beginning to feel in the minority with regards the long extensive tests it has helped to support my post, I obviously thought others in early stage had same or similar testing
 

Anniewragby

Registered User
Mar 20, 2013
46
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tests

Thanks Izzy, I heard the word Cambridge so I bet thats the one they used. Just wanted to know.....
 

Carabosse

Registered User
Jan 10, 2013
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Is this a south of the border thing, as mum has never had a long assessment, its been the same one each time.
 

treecol

Registered User
Mar 22, 2013
220
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Just tried the test on hubby on the link. It really shows how daft these tests can be in some circumstances. Now bear in mind they said Dad has comprehension, yet I mentioned on my other thread he was saying he needed to get home from hospital to check on his Monet's & Picasso's - clearly someone who is not in possession of a sound mind as he's always hated art with a passion & has no such items.
Hubby took the test & scored 43 & his memory is sharp as a needle but he left school at a very young age & doesn't enjoy tests. Dad loves a test & always excels. I rest my case!!
 

Izzy

Volunteer Moderator
Aug 31, 2003
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Dundee
I've just written a long letter to the memory clinic doctor prior to Bill's next memory clinic appointment. I have tried to give an honest picture of how I feel Bill is. I've asked her to consider not giving him the test this time but keeping him on the Exelon capsules. His sore is likely to be around 6 so quite disheartening for him to go through the MMSE. I hope she listens to me.
 

mum23

Registered User
Feb 14, 2013
31
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I have a huge worry about the MMSE test, when I was sat in the same room when mum was doing her test and to be honest mum could do more of the test than I could!!! I have dyslexia, and probable autistic spectrum disorder and have always had issues with auditory and visual processing, that got me to thinking if you do not have a baseline score how can you know from this test if a person has a dementing illness. The CPN only did this test once on mum and this test was the basis of his evaluation!
 

optocarol

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
315
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Auckland, New Zealand
My OH has had the ACE-R twice, once at the hospital clinic, once when my step-daughter took him privately to a specialist. As you now know it's scored out of 100. It's the only test other than the MMSE that I'm aware of, though no doubt there are others.