Big Yuck!

[Carabosse]

I know I mentioned this is passing on someone else's thread about poo, but I was wondering if this is 'normal' in the world of Alzheimer's or if I should get mum checked out?
Mum is using her hands when defecating to get it out (for lack of a better term), then she tends to spread it by touching things, i.e. the rails of the toilet seat, the sink/ taps, hand towels as she doesn't seem to be able to wash the stuff off of her hands properly. There have been occasions where she would ask if I could help her and then she showed me her hands covered in the stuff, the incontinence pad she wears gets covered as she tends to wipe her bum from back to front which I know is wrong, but although she understands when I explain not to do that, she will forget by the next time she goes to the toilet.
Mum has been on Laxido twice a day for a while, except for the past week when she has been taking a powerful antibiotic to get rid of a UTI (which I think has returned already) and chest infection as one of its side effects was diahorrea.
Any ideas on how to tackle this?

 

[oneloopylady]

Oh dear, I do feel for you. Seriously - what would any of us have said if we had been told when our parents/partners were in their 20's that one day we would spend our morning coffee hour discussing their poo issues.....

my dad is immobile so he didn't walk around wiping it everywhere, which must be horrendous for you - but he did put his hands inside the pads and ..............well, play/fiddle etc.............. what a mess.

I bought disposable pants from the incontinence website, and i put them on top of the pad and then the pad was sort of 'fastened in' and harder to get to and that does seem to have solved that problem - for now.

My dad is on Laxido and that softens it all so maybe your mum feels constipated and feels she has to help it out - when the bowel muscle stops functioning as well it used to that can be an issue - maybe if she were on it more regularly so that the poo just sort of flowed away the way my dads now appears to do, she would be less conscious of it and wouldn't feel the need to help it along??

It might be worth talking to the district nurse - mine has come up with a few sensible ideas on things for my dad so far............

BIG hugs

Trisha

 

[meme]

I have no experience of this but just wanted to say how awful that must be for you... and your mother. Would giving her a mild laxative to loosen her motions help?? then it would at least come out easily.

 

[Carabosse]

I know its not the sort of thing I thought I would be discussing, let a lone with people I have never met, but when someone else started mentioning poo I thought I would bring the subject up.
Mum is on Laxido it is supposed to 'help' poo come out easier, and we eat a high fibre diet so it should be flowing (sorry for the picture that forms) more easier than what it is!
As for a district nurse, mum doesn't see any of them, i buy Tena Lady day/ night time pads or Tesco's own incontinence pads which work well (for now).

 

[Sue J]

http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/show...e-pls-re-dressing-incontinence-and-poo-issues

 

[Carabosse]

Thanks, had a read but not that helpful. Mum isn't incontinent and doesn't need the knickers that were mentioned, she manages to go to the toilet but has problems getting the poo out (hence she uses her hands) at times, she is on stuff to make the stools easier to come out but somehow it doesn't seem to be doing what its supposed to do, she hasn't had any problems emptying her bowels before just in the past few months or so.

 

[Nanak]

Hi Carabosse
I do feel for you, what a situation to be in.
I am just wondering (and have no experience in this) does Mum really have trouble getting it out or do you think she feels it there and thinks its not coming out if you see what I mean
Nanak (Kim)

 

[meme]

change the laxative or up the amount of same one a bit....?

 

[virg]

My Mum does the same. Thank you for posting about it as I was too embarrassed to ask.

 

[Carabosse]

Don't task this the wrong way Virg, but thank goodness your mum does it, I mean my mum isn't the only one!
There are times when mum 'feels' that the poo is there but won't come out and so has to help it out, other times it is coming out and still has to help it out. If I happen to be upstairs when she is in the toilet and has trouble defecating, I watch her to make sure she doesn't use her hands otherwise she will. As for upping the amount of Laxido I don't think that would be a good idea unless her poo is really solid in which case she may need a shot of something else like Bisacodyl (usually used before a colonoscopy) to empty the bowel, but I would like to steer clear of that for now.

 

[jenniferpa]

There's actually a name for this (manual evacuation) which really rather tells you that it's not uncommon, if difficult to deal with.

 

[rjm]

... Any ideas on how to tackle this?

With gloves!

(Sorry, hard to suppress my sense of humour some days)


I never found a good solution, Sharon would pull it out, put it places, use the shower curtain for toilet paper. It was a phase that passed in a few months. Looking back it seems to have been the first stage in bowel incontinence, she still knew that she needed to get to the toilet but was becoming unable to control the muscles to complete the job.

 

[treecol]

I think this must be what my Dad is doing as he keeps a towel by his loo which is always smeared in pooh. He rarely uses loo roll & gets it everywhere. I don't pry too much, but just go in after with large industrial rubber gloves & clean up! But now I know too, he's not the only one doing it. Why though???

 

[jenniferpa]

I think Richard is correct that it's something to do with lack of muscle control.

 

[Carabosse]

rjm, you made me smile anyway!
treecol, I had to remove all the hand towels, face cloths from the bathroom as mum had started using them to wipe herself with. It was the same with the toilet paper I had to remove that as mum was using one roll a day, she can't just take enough for what she needed to use, she had to take more and put it in her pockets, up her sleeves anywhere really, so now I just put a couple of pieces out on the stool under the sink for her to use. It would be ok if I was made of money, she could use what she wants, but i'm not.
I think the reason for doing this is something to do with the persons sense of time, or lack of, whilst you and me are happy enough to sit there (not together I hasten to add) and wait for it to drop mum isn't hence the reason for helping it out, she hasn't said she is sore so therefore isn't constipated. That's the only reason I can come up with.

 

[Margaret W]

That's a fair point Carabosse. My mum was never incontinent nor bothered with bowel issues, but she was fefinitely an impatient woman. And I take after her, So I much prefer to go to the loo to do a "number two" and come out 3 minutes later having a result. But some days it takes a bit longer, and I can feel the impatience welling up. Well, I sit and wait of course, but maybe a dementia sufferer can't do that.

Wonderful conversations to be having. Takes my mind off the emotional problems of my daughter, which is why I came on here tonight after a long absence.

Love to all

Margaret

 

[Carabosse]

Mum is now bleeding from the back passage, I called the duty Dr to see whether she should be checked out, she suggested we keep an eye on her and if it gets worse should have a look. Mum had a PR bleed a few months ago so unsure if its down to that or if its a polyp or just a tear at the anal entrance, it was difficult to tell if the blood was bright red or dark blood due to the amount of faecal matter mixed in with it.

 

[Sue J]

Mum is now bleeding from the back passage, I called the duty Dr to see whether she should be checked out, she suggested we keep an eye on her and if it gets worse should have a look. Mum had a PR bleed a few months ago so unsure if its down to that or if its a polyp or just a tear at the anal entrance, it was difficult to tell if the blood was bright red or dark blood due to the amount of faecal matter mixed in with it.

Maybe she has haemarrhoids that are irritating/painful and causing her need to evacuate bowel???

 

[Carabosse]

No, she was checked for them when they performed a sigmoidoscopy and colonoscopy when she had the PR bleed, there was no sign of cancer either.

 

[Jrrs]

Yes, Carabosse, I'm afraid my mother does that too. One of the docs called it 'digitation'. I find myself running at breakneck speed if she even mentions the loo!! He suggested Normacol plus which is a 'softener' but not as severe as Lactulose, and that seems to work quite well, most of the time!! Mum certainly doesn't realise what she is doing, and if I am not there will get up from the loo with disastrous consequences!
I think there are a lot of us here who are grateful to you for bringing the subject up - and if we can't offer answers at least you know we are all in the same boat. Unfortunately my only solution has been to make sure that I am there every time, if only to save the cleaning up!!!
Maybe someone out there has an answer for us all