Joint account

[wonderingagain]

My mother does not have dementia but she has been referred to the memory clinic so anything could happen really. My brother recently got his name put on her bank account so he could give her cash when he needed it as she would forget her pin number.

What are the risks for him and for her of having a joint account - should I intervene?

 

[Contrary Mary]

Hello and welcome to TP.

There have been several threads recently about this kind of topic. The risk seems to be that the bank may decide to freeze the account, if not now, but at any point later when they consider her mental state to be a problem. Hopefully someone who has posted on this topic will be along soon.

Have you considered getting a Power of Attorney as Mum seems to be still at the stage where she can understand what's going on. I would strongly urge you to consider this, it could save a lot of hassle in the future.

 

[wonderingagain]

Thank you and hello.

I have been kept in the dark about my parents affairs and it seems that things are not being taken care of properly. Power of Attorney was made previously for a family friend when my father was still alive. He told me it had lapsed but it was made before 2007 so as far as I know it is still valid. As far as I know it means he has complete control over her future affairs and care issues - would I be right in thinking that?

My mother is a people-pleaser, but fiercely independent and very capable. However my father always controlled the finances and paperwork - she tells me that none of it is important and neither is money! So she is financially vulnerable as she has very valuable assets and several properties.

I did get the LPA forms but I am wary of upsetting her because she thinks that when I question the current situation I am doubting her capabilities and showing mistrust.

 

[Contrary Mary]

http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?55159-To-LPA-or-not-to-LPA

Hello again, the above thread is worth a read, I think.

I think it was about 2007 that POA changed from "Enduring" to "Lasting". My mum did an EPA long before she had dementia, but I only registered it once she had lost capacity, which was about 5 years later and after 2007. At that time it was only for financial matters and when LPA came in Mum was really past the point where she could do a welfare LPA. Whereas I have done both LPAs for myself and they are registered with the OPG. I regard it as a form of insurance, and, after all, none of us knows whats around the corner. Could you sell it to Mum in that way and not bring dementia or anything particular into it? Do try, as if she loses capacity you might have to go for Deputyship at some pointand, regardless of the cost, it appears to mean a lot more hassle

 

[wonderingagain]

Thank you I have given her the LPA guidance booklets today to have a look at. After a while explaining the purpose of the LPA in itself and also the options in real terms - what would happen if x did x or you wanted x to happen, she got irritated and fed up about 'all this talk about her death'. I feel as though I am pushing her and she wants everything to remain exactly as it is even though she has no power.

You really can't win. But my main concern at the moment is whether my brother has access to her money legally and whether there is an option for me (or anyone else) to scrutinise it. She has an accountant who does her tax return but I'm not sure if she would be able to look at these details.

 

[jon a]

Joint power of attorney

My mother does not have dementia but she has been referred to the memory clinic so anything could happen really. My brother recently got his name put on her bank account so he could give her cash when he needed it as she would forget her pin number.

What are the risks for him and for her of having a joint account - should I intervene?

You could minimize any risk or misunderstandings,You could have a joint Power of Attorney for your Mothers finances (and or health). I asked my Uncle for his support, as my Brother had his interests in mind! I get the usual monthly bank statement, & ask for help if I need it. After the P.O.A. I found that Mum's credit cards were being cloned and money was coming out of her account regularly, but I wouldn't have known without the statements, put a stop to that. Also there were other worrying aspects of her finances, cold callers were pressurizing her over the phone... the telephone preferencing service couldn't stop these calls, they were coming from outside the U.K.
My Mum had been vulnerable for a couple of years before I realised, and there is no doubt that she was targeted because of her Age. Previously She had given a lot of money to a Christian Organisation in Nigeria, who promised her health would return if she sent a lot of money, & that Jesus would heal her if she had faith. It was the most revolting scam, we informed the Police/ fraud squad, they already knew of them and were trying to build a case
So the risks of not getting involved are that you don't know what's happening, also in your case, it sounds as if you would feel more at ease if you knew.. and could share in, and manage the financial decisions.
Good luck I hope you find an answer for yourself ...

 

[dotfoxleics]

My mother does not have dementia but she has been referred to the memory clinic so anything could happen really. My brother recently got his name put on her bank account so he could give her cash when he needed it as she would forget her pin number.

What are the risks for him and for her of having a joint account - should I intervene?

Could you clarify your post? Don't you mean "...when she needed it..."? Are you sure that it is a joint account?

If your brother wanted to give her cash he wouldn't need to be a joint account holder he would just need to know details of her bank account and pay the cash into her sole bank account. I'm not clear what your brother wanted to do.

 

[Contrary Mary]

Could you clarify your post? Don't you mean "...when she needed it..."? Are you sure that it is a joint account?

If your brother wanted to give her cash he wouldn't need to be a joint account holder he would just need to know details of her bank account and pay the cash into her sole bank account. I'm not clear what your brother wanted to do.

I read it that Mum was unable to withdraw cash from her account, so brother did it for her.

 

[wonderingagain]

Thank you for your replies. Jon - yes it would be worthwhile having joint POA for both health and finance.

Brother gives her cash because she can't deal with pin numbers and cash machines (fair enough). His name is joint on the cheque books.

The good news is that I contacted the memory clinic and she has been given a clear bill of health and has no cognitive impairment. She is doing very well and with a bit of gentle nagging I'm sure we will get through these forms. A friend is organising an appointment at Age UK to go through the forms together.

 

[DozyDoris]

Third Party Mandate....

A third party mandate can give a non account holder access to your Mum's account (with her permission of course). You should be able to ask at the bank for the forms to complete, it is basically your Mum giving formal consent for you to access her account.

Personally I think your brother should protect himself by putting this all on a formal footing in any case as it is leaving him wide open to allegations.

Banks should also offer chip and sign cards so your Mum does not need a PIN to pay for goods.

Hats off to the poster who has highlighted a very valid point in that POA's are something all of us should consider having!

 

[nicoise]

To reduce any other worries, having a joint LPA with your brother would mean that if either of you were unable to attend to Mum's finances (holiday, illness) then the other one could deal with it.

That might also sound less confrontational to your brother (and mum). Plus an agreement to be open about what is happening, online banking, receiving statements etc. Direct debits for utilities take away headaches for all concerned as well.

You can do LPA yourselves and save a bit of money, but my mum's concerns meant that we did it via a solicitor so that she felt happier about it all.