Spiritual Aspects of Dementia

[Big Effort]

The Seven Levels of god

Spiritual Aspects of Dementia
For those of you who are spiritual, I'm just wondering if any of you have thoughts which lend a spiritual perspective to going through dementia. Are there any spiritual lessons to be gained through the journey of either the care giver or the victim?

Or do you have any spiritual perspectives related to any aspect of dementia which helps give you strength, or to make sense of the whole cruel dementia experience?

This is a fascinating thread...... thank you for posting it.

I have found Deepak Chopra's book, "How to know god" to be so helpful in finding a spiritual pathway that is credible, and has dramatically opened my spiritual horizons.

Like Padraig and Isabella, I grew up in Ireland (Eire). The tentacles of religion (NOT spirituality) crushed any budding spirituality right out of me. It has taken the Alzheimers Journey to make me wonder if there is a purpose or sense in all this suffering and sadness and loss.

The God of my childhood, even thought I was never a Catholic myself, growing up in Ireland, the culture was Catholic, as was the politics, the morality, the social forces. Here I grew up with what Chopra deems a "Stage One God" (the lowest level of spiritual understanding), where God was vengeful (he can punish the good and wicked alike with floods, fire, storms and disease/pestilence); capricious (this god has a frightening temper); quick to anger; jealous (poor Abraham was expected to sacrifice his own son); judgmental (meting out reward and punishment); unfathomable (we mortals could never be expected to comprehend His mind); and sometimes merciful (the god who wipes out a whole village in a tsunami and spares a handful = we were chosen, his chosen people).

God at this level is one who resides in our reptilian brain. We can be struck by a car (like my husband's dad was leaving two under 12s as orpans) in the blink of an eye. We can be forced to loose our minds, our memories, our will and our very thoughts through dementia. And the carers are forced to witness this. This is the lowest level of god, and certainly not the one I choose to know and rely on or be guided by!

Chopra explains we can each judge for ourselves at what level of god we have attained by observing our own behavior.

Level 1 is the fight-or-flight response -
Level 2 is the reactive response and we act out of ego and personality -owning power
Level 3 is the restful awareness response - silently witnessing what is
Level 4 is the intuitive response - the knower within
Level 5 is the creative response - co-creator with God
Level 6 is the visionary responsee - enlightenment (Chopra puts Jesus here)
Level 7 is the sacred response - the source of all - at one with God

It is a fascinating read and has certainly helped me to make spiritual sense out of dementia and being a carer. Of course if we stay at levels 1 and 2, all we can do is rant, rage and curse god and our lot. But once we realise there are these other levels, well, a whole new God-Universe opens up that is uplifting and exciting and meaningful.

I wish I could condense this into easier to understand morsels...... Marianne Williamson has called Chopra a 'spiritual genius'. I agree. Life is more fun and less capricious lived on the higher levels of god. Freedom beckons when we can finally leave the shakles of organised religion behind and really start to experience god, without and within.

Of course, I am not there yet. But making slow and careful steps out of the quagmire of 'canned religion'. BE

 

[Chemmy]

. Freedom beckons when we can finally leave the shakles of organised religion behind

I agree...but unlike you, I don't feel the need to replace it with something else. Interesting.

I can remember quite clearly when I started to question what I'd been taught in school and at Sunday school. It must have been in 1967, around the time of the Apollo space missions and I was becoming interested in science back then. I remembered going home and saying to Mum that heaven couldn't be 'out there in space' as we now had photos...and she was shocked. Not in an angry way, but I realised that she actually did believe God was sitting there above the clouds. That's what she'd been taught and she'd never thought to question it.

I was only 13 but I was shocked too in a way, shocked that she could be so accepting of something that clearly wasn't feasible....and that's what made me start to think about things for myself, and to begin to question what I was being told. (For the record, that's a trait that's never gone away....)

I married a (lapsed) catholic so have gained some insights into that faith too and what has concerned me is that the fears he had ingrained in him as a child - BE's level one god - have never left him. It's interesting to see that the recent problems in the Catholic church have given him the confidence to start to challenge himself to throw off his more deeply held superstitions....because that's what a lot of it boils down to. If you don't behave/ do as i say, bad things will happen - what a powerful control tool that is over the masses

Thanks for listening... It's good to be able to share these views without falling out

 

[Padraig]

It is only in recent years that I felt free of the shame and stigma of having spent time in the child labour camps of Ireland. The shame and stigma was not mine to bare, but who would have believed me as all records were kept secret until the passing of the Freedom of Information Act in the late 90s. Just two small insights to the attitude of the time: some eight years after I left the Secretary of State for the Department of Education, recorded; "The cows were better fed than the boys". No action was taken for another 16 years.
The second incident occurred during my time frame (1944), a school runs by nuns burnt to the ground killing 35 girls and an elderly woman. The nuns were exonerated in the inquiry.
The Church state I feel sure believed that they were educating us when in fact they were training us to react to commands as would a dog or parrot. To this day I can still recite Latin phrases and don't have a clue as to their meaning. Simple prayers were reeled off like so much gibberish. Some we made up ourselves when we had food: "God be praised me belly is raised an inch above the table." For those who died: "In the name of the Father and of the Son and into the 'hole he goes' ". Should be Holy Ghost.
In spite of what some might consider a lack of education I learned considerably valuable lessons in how never to inflict abuse on the vulnerable in society. I learned the true meaning of hunger and an appreciation of foo,d especially during the winter months when there were few leaves and berries to eat on the trees and hedgerows. The guardians of the Institutions were not the brightest selection to educate children, for how could you educate children in an environment so lacking in love and nurturing?
The human animal can learn much from observing their pets and animals in the wild. My quick thoughtless response to a doctor who remarked: "You do a wonderful job looking after your wife." "Don't dogs look after their pups?" It left me wondering how far have we advanced from our natural instincts in our civilised world?

 

[Big Effort]

Hallo Padraig,

What you write is so insightful because you have been in a space that hardly anyone else in the 'civilised world' gets to genuinely occupy. My Dad spent 4 years as a Prisoner of War under the Japanese. He came out of there a different man, and I am sure he felt a better man. Like you, my father never acted out and sweated the 'small stuff'.

Because this is a thread about finding spirituality, and any possible benefits/lessons we get from being (unwillingly) thrust into either Dementia itself (as a victim of the disease) or as a carer (where we are forced to accompany people we love and care about on a journey that questions every moral and medical ethic on the planet), I especially enjoy reading about your 'time' in a child labour camp. I push myself to find ever more compassion within me, yet you are Compassion itself, and inspire us as you cared for your wife to the end, and continue now to inspire us.

For my part, Alzheimers has pushed me into the darkest hole I have yet had to occupy in my (priveleged) lifetime. Everything I took for granted vanished under the onslaught of Dementia. I came here to work, yet three months in, my mother came to me to be cared for. No work, less money, no income; a house that did not sell in Ireland; Mum became more and more dependent; family members became invisible the more visible her Dementia became; the stakes for me, my husband, my children and my mother have got higher and higher. Dementia always demands more. Now Mum can't dress herself. She needs me to help keep her thread while she makes a phone call. She needs me to orient her in space and time, and remind her what she is doing right now.

Having all that I held dear to myself stripped away (though not in the way Padraig has, as I do this through my own free will, it is not enforced), I found a peaceful space - which I assume is the god-space, the frequency where we can link with powerful, healing, contented, higher and ever higher energy and spaces.

Now I am waffling, but it is a challenge even to reach the space and bring it forth for my own experience, let alone communicate it and share it.

Yet, I do find myself grateful for the Alzheimer Onslaught, as it has shown me I have inner resources that perhaps don't have conventional labels.

Just my musings after waking at 5.10 a.m. and having a stream of insights and inspirations. What woke me? Where do these amazing thoughts come from? Is Yoga Nidra opening spaces in my mind that have been closed until now, those 9/10ths of intelligence we are all told about that the human doesn't tap into? I am on to something, but it is hard to articulate it. BE

 

[Chemmy]

Keep telling your story, Padraig, to anyone who'll listen, because it's only by hearing the truth from first hand accounts such as yours that people will overcome centuries of indoctrination and tyranny.

 

[loveahug]

Padraig, you will ever be an inspiration for your humanity and strength. Thank you for your sharing, and you too, BE, for documenting your striving towards enlightenment.

Love to everyone

Hugs

 

[Pullinpants]

I'm going to be brutally honest, I have skimmed through most of this conversation, but wanted to share with you my thoughts.

I have grown up in a Christian family and chose to commit my life to God in 2005; but sadly like most people it hasn't been easy. My life has probably had more downs than ups but that's okay because each one has made me stronger (cliched I know!)

When Grandad was diagnosed with DLB a couple of years ago I did a lot of soul searching but have always prayed that God will keep him safe. Now sadly my Nana has also been diagnosed with it and my soul searching has reached a dead end. I reluctantly have given up praying for my grandparents. Having recently witnessed just how ill they both are I am beginning to understand there is no going back. I do believe in God, I don't know if we as a family are being punished for something we did in the past - we're not perfect but who is right!? But I can't keep praying for something that won't happen.

I've had many a discussion about whether God is all powerful and loving, and know a number of people who have experienced this first hand through miracles. I won't take that away from them. But I know that no matter how powerful God is, he cannot make them better. One day I may learn how to deal with that better.

I recently talked to a friend about this - she lost both her grandparents to dementia and is a great source of comfort to me. I reached a point one day when I had such a bad experience with Nana that when I prayed that night I asked God to let them both be at peace. I didn't sleep a wink that night and woke very disturbed the next day. That was when I decided I could no longer do it.

I believe it's okay to ask God to let them be at peace. I prayed it reluctantly but purely because it was killing us all how much pain and darkness they are feeling. I am relieved God hasn't listened to me yet and will let him decide when it's the right time - it's in his plan. I also think it's okay that I can't pray anymore. I still ask friends to remember them in their prayers but I think God cannot help them. I believe God can and is helping the rest of my family - and yours - in how we care for our loved ones with dementia. He is offering his love and support to us in ways we cannot imagine or always see and I think that is wonderful. There will come a stage when I will need God to help me some more and I know he will be there when I am ready to talk to him again.

I have two things in my life which define my faith: a poem called Footprints in the Sand, and the song of my football team (Liverpool) "You'll Never Walk Alone". Perhaps reading them can help you in your times of loneliness and struggle. You don't have to be a Christian to believe you ARE NOT ALONE in this!

I hope this helps.

 

[Chemmy]

Just my musings after waking at 5.10 a.m. and having a stream of insights and inspirations. What woke me? Where do these amazing thoughts come from? Is Yoga Nidra opening spaces in my mind that have been closed until now, those 9/10ths of intelligence we are all told about that the human doesn't tap into? I am on to something, but it is hard to articulate it. BE

My 'big ideas' time is also around half five in the morning - I often wake up with a solution to something that's been puzzling me. Definitely not yoga-induced in my case; more likely that little supercomputer (aka my brain) enjoying a little down time whilst I'm asleep without the distractions of the day.

 

[Chemmy]

I don't know if we as a family are being punished for something we did in the past - we're not perfect but who is right!?

Hello Pullinpants

Thanks for sharing your story.

I found your comment that you feel in some small way you or your family might be responsible for what is happening to your grandparents really quite upsetting.

Please please don't ever think that. It's a disease of the brain that will, one day, be understood and treated, in the same way research into cancer has made great strides today.

I can't imagine anyone being cruel enough to say it should be viewed as a punishment inflicted from 'above'.

 

[Padraig]

It may appear from my posts that I have lost faith, but in fact it may surprise some to learn that I pray every day.
Big Effort, Like you I believe that we don't use then full capacity of our brain. One of the advantages I derived from the nuns beating the devil out of me for using my left hand (they knew no different) it forced me to use the side of the brain I would not have used naturally. In those day they were not aware that left-handed people's brain was linked up opposite to that of right-handed ones, hence I use both sides!
As has already been said, life is made up of positives and negatives. The negatives of a formal education is just that: it follows a formal path. Most of it is to be found in books, what one is told, or follow the leader. Whilst I may have lost out by not fitting in and lacked social skills the positives gains I've derived from observation, experimentation and acting 'outside the box' have served me exceptionally well.
Towards the end of our Alzheimer's journey I well remember saying to my wife as she lay in bed: "You were sent to me, you made me whole, it is now OK to let go, I'll be fine." What prompted me to utter those words I'll never know. What I do know is she was my salvation and still inspires me by her example. She was such a gentle, quiet and selfless person.
As the boss of a large organisation in the Middle East, one lowly Asian worker approached and summed it up: "Missy too good for you Master".
'God moves in mysterious ways'

 

[lilypad]

The message is being broadcast constantly

[When I received the message about the true nature of God I asked why I received the message when, if it was broadcast for everyone to hear it would change the world. Answer the message is continually broadcast but not everyone is tuning in to the same wavelength Something to do with Alpha rhythms. Meditation? I have to tell you that when my daughter was an air stewardess based in the Middle east. I woke my husband up one night and said Jayne's in trouble. She is safe but is calling out We are out of Control We are out of control. I rang her next day and said "What happened last night I heard you call out that the plane was out of control? "Oh that wasn't me it was Pippa. The plane dropped like a stone but the pilot managed to regain control" So perhaps I am psychic who knows? Why have I waited 40 years to share these experiences? Maybe the time is right Good luck to you all

 

[Pullinpants]

I can't imagine anyone being cruel enough to say it should be viewed as a punishment inflicted from 'above'.

Hi Chemmy

I think I should clarify. I haven't specifically had someone say to me it's a punishment. I think simply because of how I've been brought up and what I have experienced in my life, it has become a simple consistent mentality for me. I know deep down that there is no way that something like dementia (or cancer, or stroke or any other longterm illness) can be a punishment. I know for my Grandad that when he could think for himself he often wondered and cursed himself over what he did in the past to end up like this. If anyone told me they believed it I know I would sit there and tell them it's not a punishment until I'm blue in the face.

The matter of the fact is, dementia is ****. I would love the opportunity to experience an insight into the mind of someone with dementia. It would distressing I'm sure. But I don't think I'll ever understand the complexities of it without first hand experience.

How we understand it spiritually. Only God himself can know that

 

[Pullinpants]

Just another thought:
I recently watched a video about a neuro-scientist who experienced a stroke. Have a watch and it could help with the "spiritual" aspect of how we "deal" with these things.
http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html

 

[Tarika]

Unconditional love

Dear Justsosad,

It's not often I post these days. I lost my beautiful mum to dementia in Aug 2010 after a horrendous couple of years.

The most amazing lesson I learnt from it was that whatever happened during those years, every time I was with her I had the most amazing sense of the unconditional love that we shared with each other.

It's that sense of belonging together that's so hard to be without

On a very soul level I accept that we both made an agreement before we came onto this Earth to go through this experience together and I am honoured that I was able to share and support her in her decision .

With Love

Tarika

 

[lilypad]

That rings a bell Tarika

Tarika I think you have confirmed something I did not mention for fear of ridicule. I was told that I had volunteered to come here to do a specific task and that task was explained to me. I was to mediate between warring factions. I said How will I know what to say? YOU WILL FIND THE RIGHT WORDS" What if they do not believe me? THEY WILL RECOGNISE THE TRUTH WHEN THEY HEAR IT" then YOU WILL FORGET ALL THE DETAILS UNTIL THE TIME IS RIGHT. So it seems to me that many if not all of us have been here before. I too had the most miserable childhood. The worst case of child neglect the doctor had ever seen. Covered with sores ,stick thin ,head lice falling everywhere. Then when I was nine my mother took me to visit my paternal grandparents and I was told to play in the garden. When I was called in ,my mother had gone. It was my grandmother who took me to the doctor. I never heard from my mother ag ain until I sought her out when in my late teens. More at another time

 

[Chemmy]

Hi Lilypad.

I think you are brave posting this on a public forum but we're generally a polite bunch on TP and I trust those who may scoff will maintain a dignified silence.

The scientist in me is always intrigued by stories such as yours and I'd like to think I'm open-minded enough to listen to and weigh up evidence which contradicts my own theories

I can see your belief in what you have experienced is very real. I'm actually genuinely intrigued...you say you were 'told'? Can I ask how the message manifested itself? In a vision (ie you were awake) or in a dream?

 

[lilypad]

Hullo Chemmy Things just happen unbidden

Hullo Chemmy and everyone. I was awake when this happened. The most beautiful voice I have ever heard but neither male or female. The initial words were" Don't be afraid to die. you cannot die even if you wanted to. it will be like waking up in a dream but this new life is the reality and life on earth is just an illusion. For a very brief moment I was told and understood that time only exists on earth. The past ,present and the future are all happenng in the here and now. It was so simple I could see it was the truth. Yes one recognises the Truth when one experiences it. but then although I remembered that I had understood, It no longer made any sense to me. Now I know this may sound facetious but I cannot believe that by holding a gadget in your hand and pressing a few keys you can speak to anyone any place in world.. Also made clear to me was that there are many rules of physics existing that have not yet been discovered. Alone in my old house one night someone tucked me in.I turned around and said thank you who are you? no answer. Then another time my husband mislaid his father's gold watch. It was missing several days and then I found it soaking wet in the garden. I took it upstairs placed a towel on the radiator and gently laid to dry out. That night I got into bed and something made me look at the watch. It rose slowly up and moved slowly a few feet and floated onto the carpet like a feather. I picked it up and replaced on the radiator and said please do that again. Nothing happened. I am beginning to think I am living in a different world from everyone else. Surely if we pray to God we must believe He exists. If he exists why would He stop talking to His children?. I believe we must be open minded when confronted with things that shout out at us that we know practically nothing about physics etc. I could write for several hours tellling you word for word all that was told to me in perhaps a few seconds. I am exhausted now but I will be back. CAN ANYONE GIVE A LOGICAL EXPLANATION FOR WHY SOME PEOPLE RECEIVE TELEPATHIC MESSAGES AS BETWEEN MY DAUGHTER AND MYSELF?

 

[Coletta]

Hi Lillypad,

Im quite excited by what you have written and believe every word you say.
I remember as a 16 year old lying on my bed thinking about my future. I remember thinking that yes, one day I would get married and my future husband's initials would be C M. It wasnt until after our wedding this memory came back to me, I hadnt given it a second's thought, and yes they are his initials. I heard my father-in-law's voice calling to me after he passed away and my mother-in-law saw a bouquet of roses on her pillow. A friend of mine was blown over by a strong gust of wind the other day and fell in the middle of the road. She was picked up by a lady in a white silk dress who told her 'don't be afraid, hold my hand' as the cars were driving past. She got to the other side of the road, and turned to thank her, but the lady had disappeared. It then dawned on her that the lady should have been wearing a coat as it was bitterly cold.
Another friend heard his doorbell go and went to answer it. On his (quite long) front garden path there was a young man who had turned back and was halfway down the path. He said 'God loves you', and my very flabbergasted friend just said 'thank you' and went inside to tell his mum. She told him to quickly go after him, which my friend did immediately. But the young man was nowhere to be seen, yet the road my friend lives is a very long one and there was no way he could have disappeared without being seen in those few seconds.
Lillypad, you would like Lorna Byrne's books. She sees and talks with angels every day and in her last book 'A message of hope from the Angels' has written that God chose this time for her to write her books as He wants to speed up our spiritual evolution. It seems that you and your daughter are more on your way than many of us are. Lorna also asks herself the question, why is it only me that sees Angels? She writes that the Angel Michael has shown her a future where everyone can see and talk to Angels as she can, which is such an exciting thought!

Coletta x

 

[lilypad]

Thank you Coletta. Yes every word is true and I have so many more experiences to shar

,
Hullo Coletta and everyone. Happy St David's day! When I was reading for my Masters degree at the university of Wales The lecturer threw open a statement. We now know all the laws of physics. I had to stand up and tell him of things that happened in our house. He smiled " I knew someone would agree that we know pitifully little." He later took the chair in parapsychology at another University. One day the four of us in our household left for work on a Tuesday morning ( bin day) As we opened the back door there stood 3 bottles of French liquers that we had left in the alcove in the living room. We all accused the others of playing tricks. Next Tuesday the same thing happened again but Jayne was not with us. The next Tuesday we were all waiting to see if it happened again but it did not. When Jayne was living in Yorkshire she said she had seen both my husband and me standing at the bottom of her bed. Another thing, after a minor op I was wheeled back to the ward on a trolley that was pushed into the lift by a nurse and a doctor in green scrubs. He asked her to go out with him in fact more than once. Next day I asked the nurse if she had decided to see him as he was rather dishy. Her reaction was utter disbelief. How did you know that? You were unconscious when we were in the lift? So we are aware when all medical opinion says we cannot be. CARL jUNG believed in what he called the collective unconscious. Now I have never seen either Angels or ghosts but I have certainly experienced strange happenings in both this house and my daughters . I experience pleasant perfumes quite often in the evenings.and butterflies in january Must feed the old fella Bye

 

[Vin]

Hiya Justsosad,

It is interesting that your beliefs and spirituality are being challenged due to your mum's dementia. I have a few things to offer you, based on my own experiences, that you can perhaps ponder.

My sisters and I often discussed my mother's dementia and her ending up having that disease which would dictate her final journey here on earth. We noted that my mother had learned that which many advocate that we should do and that is to live in the present moment. Her deteriorating skills meant that she no longer considered the future and her memory problems stopped her living like most of us do, by reference to the past. For her, every day was new. Every day was as though she was experiencing things for the first time. Occasionally she would remember someone else's name but on the whole she lived in the moment and even then sometimes in a world that was beyond our reach. It wasn't always good, she suffered from hallucinations but even them her lack of memory of the previous days events often served as a kindness. Allowing her periods of relief before the hallucinations started again.

So, in a way, the suffering of the dementia was often ours and.not hers. So is there a lesson there? Are you seeing your mum's suffering only from your perspective? Yes it is a horrible illness, but is that judgement being made by you on the basis of your suffering and what you know your mum has lost. Is your mum aware of all these horrible things as you are, or does she live each day within the bounds of the skills that she still has? Is there a lesson for us which might be to stop and see things from other people's perspective. Is the lesson maybe to show you how to live for the present moment. To learn that there can still be joy without us having to always have our reference point in the past? To get there and join her, you will have to shed all your preconceptions, your anger, and open your soul to share that present moment with her, in the pure innocence of the moment.

There are other lessons too. How about trust. Being so vulnerable that your whole existence is dependent upon you putting your trust in others to care for you and keep you safe. Can you contemplate you abandoning all your your protections and laying yourself open to whatever may be. You can experience this if you are brave enough to try it out. Take a blanket and go sit in meditation outdoors one night. If you are near an area that is out in the country, away, from all the trappings of home such as street lights etc this is even better. Sit on the ground with your blanket around you and meditate. Experience how your senses all become intensified, how distrusting you are about your safety. Become, if you can, at one with your surroundings. Become part of nature again. Sit as an equal with all the other living things around you. That is how trusting your mum has to be and she is giving you the lip chance to learn from her experiences.

To be continued, if you wish me to, or just tell me to stop here....

Fiona

Fiona, how well you have described that and your feelings really do mirror mine. I always tell my husband that we both have this cruel disease which helps me be aware of what he is experiencing. I don't always show him the necessary patience but I do try.
One thing that amazes me is just how many people with this horrible disease live alone, there is absolutely no way my husband could be left alone. He gets so frightened.

I live in France and am very fortunate that I get very good help from social services. I do not know how much help one can expect in the UK which is why we stay here. sometimes I am tempted to return.

I would be happy to hear what else you have to add.

Vin