Can SS refuse to attend a best interests meeting?

Leonora7

Registered User
Jul 26, 2010
163
0
Basingstoke
I don't often post but read the forum a lot. However, some of you may recall that I moved my 90/91-year old parents from Herts to Hampshire last September. Mum has vascular dementia and Dad is very frail. They were in the flat for 5 weeks before both fell and the result of this was that Mum sent into respite while Dad was in hospital for 3 weeks. She settled really well and the opinion of all was that she should stay there. But Dad had other ideas (understandably) and she finally came home for a trial in January; this was after her social worker had assessed her in the home and given the go-ahead. During the week that Mum was back in the flat the paramedics came out twice in six days; the first time Dad fell, was on the floor all night with a phone next to him and refused to use it to summon help as he was somehow hoping he would be able to get up and clear all the mess so that no-one would know about the catastrophic start to the week. Of course this was a pipe dream but at least the ambulance crew decided he was mobile enough to remain in the flat. The second time Dad managed to overdose on opiates and was kept in hospital for three days. Back to the home for Mum.

Not surprisingly both the CPN and psychiatrist agree that Mum should remain where she is as this is definitely in the best interests of all concerned. The CPN was therefore asked by the psychiatrist to set up a best interests meeting, (Dad, of course, vehemently denying that the trial week had been anything but unlucky). Well, apparently the social worker said SS did not want to become involved, the CPN has spoken to his manager and he has reiterated that, as Mum and Dad are self-funding, they will not be involved with any meeting. As a novice I am not clear whether this means the meeting cannot actually go ahead (I only know the above as the CPN left a message on my phone on Friday and I did not get to it early enough to ring him back for further elucidation) and where this puts us in the debate with Dad as to where Mum should be.

I fully understand Dad's position; they have been married for 67 years and he wants to be with Mum but it is just not practicable without HUGE involvement (i.e. virtually living with them) from myself as well as carers four times a day. Mum is mobile and can converse but can do nothing for herself and all her old obsessions (going back to Herts, money etc) reassert themselves as soon as she is in a home environment with Dad. He may be able to handle this but I am a different character and find it very wearing and stressful. I know most of you on here have far more patience and much greater problems than me but I also know that you will understand me when I say that I have neared carer breakdown a couple of times in the past and have no wish to revisit that territory.

Anyway, I digress. Regardless of the way I feel about the whole thing what I would like to know is whether SS can actually refuse any involvement in the decision of whether it is in the best interests of an elderly, vulnerable lady to return home to live with a very frail 91-year old husband who has a huge daily drug intake that he seems not to be managing sensibly (despite carer involvement and nomad pack from chemist) and who walks with a frame and sleeps most of the day. Every time I think we have reached some sort of sensible situation with it all it blows up again.

So sorry for this - I really feel guilty for not being able to cope with it but I am just run ragged trying to keep it all together. Yesterday I drove a huge van up to the middle of London with my son's belongings as he (finally!) moved out again after two years. I love him dearly but at least that is one less thing to worry about!

Jenny
 

jan.s

Registered User
Sep 20, 2011
7,353
0
72
Hi Jenny

Sorry to hear about your Mum and Dad. It must be very difficult to you to mediate in this situation.

With regards to SS, if Mum and Dad are self funding, there would be no need to SS to be involved. (Just my thoughts). We don't have a CPN, just a care co-ordinator (who I call our SW). She co-ordinates the whole thing, bringing together professionals as and when necessary.

I would have thought that the purpose of the best interests meeting would be for Dad to be able to say what he feels and for the psychiatrist and CPN to be able to put the professional view.

I may be well off the mark, but just my thoughts.

I hope all works out well for you.

Jan xx
 

Leonora7

Registered User
Jul 26, 2010
163
0
Basingstoke
Thanks Jan. I think the professionals are definitely of the opinion that it would be disastrous for Mum to return home again. But I'm not sure they can override Dad if SS aren't involved. There's a part of me, endorsed by my husband, that believes maybe they should just be allowed to end their lives together, as they want. But this would inevitably mean a curtailed life with some disaster being the cause and a lot of pain and misery for everyone. But, mainly, this would surely be irresponsible of everyone? I just don't know anymore. We've done what we consider all the right things but it's just never enough. :(
 

Saffie

Registered User
Mar 26, 2011
22,513
0
Near Southampton
Hi Jenny and I am so sorry you are going through all this again.
I don't know if this helps at all but Dave was self-funding when he went into the nursing home and my wish that he returned home was ignored. I should say it was given lip service but was, in reality, ignored! We were also allocated a SW before anyone knew anything about Dave' financial position. A week after he entered the comunity hospital for mental health, from SH general, there was a meeting with the Cons. Psychiatrist who had diagnosed his dementia and a couple of nurses. At that meeting I was told he had been allocated a SW and that Dave would be going into a nursing home - he added 'fully funded' but this didn't happen.

I said I wanted him to come home but was told that he'd receive better carer in a nursing home than I could give him at home. Anything else I said was brushed away.

3 months later, still had the SW even though Dave was self-funding, I was looking at nursing homes and asked the SW about Dave coming home instead. She said that if that was what I wanted she would set up a meeting in the hospital. When I met her there, she was called in to the meeting about 20 minutes before I was and when I did eventually go in, it was all cut and dried - he wasn't coming home. There were about 10 people in that room and though I argued against the decision, it made no difference.

I've written all this to show that sometimes, the professionals can over-rule what the next of kin wants - though of course, your father may be made of stronger stuff than am I! However, there was no physicalor health reason whay i could not care for him at home, despite his amputation. I hope it helps a little.

Looking forward to seeing you at Banbury station or before next Friday!
 
Last edited:

turbo

Registered User
Aug 1, 2007
3,852
0
Hello Jenny, my mum is self funding. Mum was admitted to hospital on Christmas Eve 2009 after being found wandering at 3am (she lived alone). At a Best Interests meeting at the end of January2010, attended by the hospital social worker, we were told mum needed EMI residential care or 24hr care at home. As mum insisted that there was nothing wrong with her we knew 24hr care at home was not an option. She had also had no outside care at all. We did ask if mum could have one more try at home but we were told no.
So my opinion would be that yes your dad's wishes may be overridden. I also think that you have tried very hard to keep your parents together. I am thinking of you.


turbo
 

Leonora7

Registered User
Jul 26, 2010
163
0
Basingstoke
Hi Saffie. The SW situation sure confuses me. They really seem to want to wash their hands as soon as they can: Mum goes into home, "oh, I'm not needed any more, I'll sign her off", says the SW to self; Dad leaves hospital with fracture of femur, "no more need of me" says (different) SW to self; mum comes home again with disastrous results after SW assessment - where is SW? Couldnt tell you. Now, SS once more visible in their absence. At least our loved ones have someone to try to protect their interests. It makes me sick to think of all those sad souls who are left entirely at the mercy of our social services.

I'm so sorry you had Dave put into care without any say - surely you had a right to be in the decisive meeting? Is there any appeal process?

Well, I too am looking forward to next Friday when we can just have a jolly good weekend with like-minded people and have a few moments of relaxation. Roll on the weekend. :)
 

Leonora7

Registered User
Jul 26, 2010
163
0
Basingstoke
Thanks Turbo. I suppose we will just have to wait and see. I will ring the CPN tomorrow morning to get the full story. I could tell by his tone in the voicemail that he is disgusted by the SS stance!
 

dognecks

Registered User
Feb 11, 2013
106
0
55
bridport
paul carer

I don't often post but read the forum a lot. However, some of you may recall that I moved my 90/91-year old parents from Herts to Hampshire last September. Mum has vascular dementia and Dad is very frail. They were in the flat for 5 weeks before both fell and the result of this was that Mum sent into respite while Dad was in hospital for 3 weeks. She settled really well and the opinion of all was that she should stay there. But Dad had other ideas (understandably) and she finally came home for a trial in January; this was after her social worker had assessed her in the home and given the go-ahead. During the week that Mum was back in the flat the paramedics came out twice in six days; the first time Dad fell, was on the floor all night with a phone next to him and refused to use it to summon help as he was somehow hoping he would be able to get up and clear all the mess so that no-one would know about the catastrophic start to the week. Of course this was a pipe dream but at least the ambulance crew decided he was mobile enough to remain in the flat. The second time Dad managed to overdose on opiates and was kept in hospital for three days. Back to the home for Mum.

Not surprisingly both the CPN and psychiatrist agree that Mum should remain where she is as this is definitely in the best interests of all concerned. The CPN was therefore asked by the psychiatrist to set up a best interests meeting, (Dad, of course, vehemently denying that the trial week had been anything but unlucky). Well, apparently the social worker said SS did not want to become involved, the CPN has spoken to his manager and he has reiterated that, as Mum and Dad are self-funding, they will not be involved with any meeting. As a novice I am not clear whether this means the meeting cannot actually go ahead (I only know the above as the CPN left a message on my phone on Friday and I did not get to it early enough to ring him back for further elucidation) and where this puts us in the debate with Dad as to where Mum should be.

I fully understand Dad's position; they have been married for 67 years and he wants to be with Mum but it is just not practicable without HUGE involvement (i.e. virtually living with them) from myself as well as carers four times a day. Mum is mobile and can converse but can do nothing for herself and all her old obsessions (going back to Herts, money etc) reassert themselves as soon as she is in a home environment with Dad. He may be able to handle this but I am a different character and find it very wearing and stressful. I know most of you on here have far more patience and much greater problems than me but I also know that you will understand me when I say that I have neared carer breakdown a couple of times in the past and have no wish to revisit that territory.

Anyway, I digress. Regardless of the way I feel about the whole thing what I would like to know is whether SS can actually refuse any involvement in the decision of whether it is in the best interests of an elderly, vulnerable lady to return home to live with a very frail 91-year old husband who has a huge daily drug intake that he seems not to be managing sensibly (despite carer involvement and nomad pack from chemist) and who walks with a frame and sleeps most of the day. Every time I think we have reached some sort of sensible situation with it all it blows up again.

So sorry for this - I really feel guilty for not being able to cope with it but I am just run ragged trying to keep it all together. Yesterday I drove a huge van up to the middle of London with my son's belongings as he (finally!) moved out again after two years. I love him dearly but at least that is one less thing to worry about!

Jenny

you have alot to deal with mum dad. all i can say is do what you can then stand back when getting to much . the situation will get worse. so do something for yourself sometime s a break at least. big hugs paul . carer. job and looked after motherinlaw fatherinlaw one with alz, one with cancer.
 

Leonora7

Registered User
Jul 26, 2010
163
0
Basingstoke
Hi Dognecks. Well, I'm one of those TP'ers off to Solihull next weekend so that will be one truly welcome and enjoyable break! :D
 

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