Smoking

[Margarita]

Sue

I don't think it's just an addiction to nicotine which patches can help, but pure habit. In addition

I know when I am around people that don’t smoke; I tend not to want a cigarette,

I do love the way you and Natashalou ,put in the words sinners and vice lol a bad habit's die hard .

They do seem to go all out showing the sigh of how bad nicotine is and what’s in it that can give you cancer , but they still have it on sell .

Where nicotine has been proven to be as highly additive as heroin , so would you give a heroin addict a heroin patch , I don’t think so .

And they till legal sell them cigarette in the high street


I only started smoking in my 30s because I was **** off with one in my life that it was the only way I could find to chill out in that moment or other wise punching they lights out because of they foul mouth , that yes I got hock on the relief it gave me for a few moments .

If like Jan I was told that its effecting my heath then I would give it up , I respect other people don’t like it what passive smoking can do to other , and the smell always reminds me of , of the smell of a mental institution’s that my brother was always in out of when he was younger , because they group them in to one room to smoke .

It seem now what we are going to see is all the people who have additions out in the street having a fag , showing them up dividing and groping , I just can’t understand where the government is coming from with this .

To just turn their backs on the problem is no solution and

some form of compromise has to be found. IMHO it feels like a dictatorship from a

government and L.A`s( bordering on a witch hunt! ) devoid of compassion for

those that are the most venerable and easy targets in our society

.

So right well said

 

[noelphobic]

Sue
Where nicotine has been proven to be as highly additive as heroin , so would you give a heroin addict a heroin patch , I don’t think so .

And they till legal sell them cigarette in the high street

If like Jan I was told that its effecting my heath then I would give it up ,
It seem now what we are going to see is all the people who have additions out in the street having a fag , showing them up dividing and groping , .

They do give heroin addicts methadone. I see an awful lot of people going into our local chemist for their daily fix.

If cigarettes were made illegal then I would imagine they would go underground. Some people would stop but others would still carry on. Don't know whether or not they would be more expensive as there would be no tax on them!

I didn't know all smokers were potential perverts though! I used to smoke and it never made me want to grope!

 

[Margarita]

If cigarettes were made illegal then I would imagine they would go underground.

Now that’s a good point for legalizing all street drugs .

because they are a potential threat to all mentality ill vulnerably people and Of becoming mentally ill

 

[CraigC]

Hi All,

The issue of smoking has cropped up at many homes that I visited and many have a ruling due to insurance. Basically, if no one is allowed to smoke on the premises the care home saves a lot of money on insurance - this will often include staff.

However, the recent drive by councils to ban smoking on any council premises or premises run by the council is driven by the smoke free legislation being enforced on 1st July 2007.

Whether it is right or wrong is something we could all discuss for hours, but it will be the law on the 1st July 2007 and councils need to comply.

I'd encourage anyone concerned about the legislation to check out their local council's website. Here is a link to some of the reasons and enforcements set up by Richmond council:

http://www.richmond.gov.uk/home/business/health_and_safety/smokefree_legislation.htm

In other residential situations such as prisons, care homes, hospices etc the regulations allow either for designated bedrooms or other designated rooms to be used only for smoking.

My mum a long term smoker is dying a slow death from emphysema. I know that very few people have respect for her as she caused her own illness, but I try to give her as much dignity as possible. She grew up in a culture where smoking was almost encouraged.

Frankly (and this is my most humble humble opinion), I wish this smoke free ruling had been enforced 40 years ago. I see the pain and suffering smoking can cause every single day and wish my mother wasn't leaving us like this.

Kind Regards
Craig

 

[jennym]

Hi there
I am sure there is a claus in the new law.
What you have to remember is that the residential/nursing home is your fathers home and it would be against human rights to not allow someone to smoke in their own home, so i am sure that by law they will have to provide a designated smoking area. I will search the net and try to find out more for you, my daughter is a social worker so i will ask her advise too.
speak to you soon
love
jennym xx

 

[janetruth]

Hi Jan,

This disscussion could go on and on and on, but you still need some sort of solution for your planned holiday.
Being an ex-smoker of 11yrs I could be on either bench and argue very favourably in both counts.
Every resposible adult should be allowed to do as they wish, as long as it's not against the law or is affecting anyone else or their health.
I can see myself now telling non smokers if they din't like it, then leave the room.
I was very defensive and inconsiderate, it didn't matter at the time, as long as I got 'my fix'. what a terrible person I must have seemed.
I really, really hope, you can get your holiday, I am looking forward to mine, a week in June, mum will spend 10 days in a very nice home.

Please consider All avenues.
Take care Bye for now
Janetruth x

 

[Michael E]

whilst I do agree that 'human rights' should allow your father to continue smoking in some part of the home and I actually believe it is up to individuals to decide for themselves.

Interestingly Monique was a very heavy smoker - I think around 20-30 a day until about 6 months ago... She just said, for no apparent reason, that she no longer was going to smoke.... She just stopped. No apparent withdrawal symptoms, no patches - just stopped then forgot she ever smoked.. You see there is one advantage at least in having Alzheimer's...

Whilst ever case is different it may be that your dad will voluntarily decide to quit... Is it worth trying to ask him what he feels about the situation?

Michael

 

[Natashalou]

Yes

I agree with Janetruth..and I know there are organisations who provide carers who will move into the home (as it persons own home), as I now wished I had followed that option as opposed to the nursing home option. Prices from what I recall were around £1000 per week but this is of course for 24 hour care.
Perhaps that would offer a solution ?

 

[Brucie]

Jan smoked, though not many - perhaps 5 a day max. Her drama teacher at university demanded that she stop as her smoking would destroy her beautiful alto voice. Jan cut down from 40 a day Senior Service untipped, to 5 a day Peter Stuyvessant immediately. She always maintained that she could stop at any time.

... and she did, as her dementia started.

As in all things, human rights are cited. I wonder how many actually cite human rights for those at care homes who do not smoke, and who may be put at risk if the person with dementia who smokes drops a cigarette and sets the place alight? Staff and residents and visitors alike?

In Jan's home, there is currently a designated area where the one man who smokes, has his fags. It works well. I'm hoping it continues. He is a dear man who spends all day asking for a cigarette - forgetting he has just had one.

The issue of cigarettes is one of staffing, safety and the rights of a person to smoke. All three.

 

[noelphobic]

Now that’s a good point for legalizing all street drugs .

because they are a potential threat to all mentality ill vulnerably people and Of becoming mentally ill

Just to clarify this Margarita. That may be your opinion, but it is not mine! Just because I said that making cigarettes illegal would drive them underground, does not mean that I believe all 'street' drugs should be made legal. I wasn't even saying that I was necessarily against cigarettes being made illegal - I'm not sure exactly how I feel on that one myself.

And I don't understand how legalising all street drugs would make them less of a threat to mentally ill people - wouldn't it just make them more accessible? Some people will not break the law under almost any circumstances, so making cigarettes illegal might force them to give up smoking. I would prefer to use a carrot rather than a stick approach myself but I am sure arguments could be made in favour of the stick approach! And if all street drugs were legal then wouldn't more people use them? Which surely would be a bad thing, unless you have a very extreme point of view on this.

 

[noelphobic]

whilst I do agree that 'human rights' should allow your father to continue smoking in some part of the home and I actually believe it is up to individuals to decide for themselves.

Interestingly Monique was a very heavy smoker - I think around 20-30 a day until about 6 months ago... She just said, for no apparent reason, that she no longer was going to smoke.... She just stopped. No apparent withdrawal symptoms, no patches - just stopped then forgot she ever smoked.. You see there is one advantage at least in having Alzheimer's...

Whilst ever case is different it may be that your dad will voluntarily decide to quit... Is it worth trying to ask him what he feels about the situation?

Michael

I find that really interesting Michael, as there are usually physical as well as psychological withdrawal symptoms. I know I felt really ill every time that I stopped smoking for at least the first few days, and I often think this is what makes people go back to smoking.

 

[Margarita]

That may be your opinion, but it is not mine!

Of Course I new that

Not going to get In to desiccation about it on TP. I should have not said that, I am sorry if you took it the wrong way

 

[J@ne]

And anyway this isn't just about smoking

You do understand, don't you, that it is the management of this care home that has made this decision? The act has specific exceptions for places where someone makes their home. Unfortunately, as Aine says, there is an inclination for some people who have no idea what they're doing to take a very simplictic view of what the law requires, either through ignorance or laziness. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/20070765.htm has list of exemptions. Incidentally, this (The Smoke-free (Exemptions and Vehicles) Regulations 2007) is pretty new (march 7th). You might want to ask the powers that be what they propose to do in light of this new regulation. It's more than likely they haven't even noticed it (or hope you won't).

The deeper issue here is about "Client centred care" - scuse my language while I rant but FOR CRYING OUT LOUD what are they thinking? Large numbers of people with dementia are from a generation who thought smoking was healthy and have smoked for years so where is the quality of care in barring them altogether in their home! Jan, I think it might be worth finding out if there are any carers/users forums or similar where people who use caring services and their carers get the chance to air their views, because there must be some work people have done in your Local Authority area about this. Your Local Authority has probably invested substantial amounts of time and money in user involement and carer involvement and consulting anything that moved and will have some kind of charter or similar about users views etc, as well as quality standards that apply. Try to find out and quote it at them. Obviously people who don't smoke should be protected from the effects of passive smoking but not at the expense of the rights of people who do smoke. How dare they. Don't take this lying down - is there a carers centre or something in your area? Have a look in the phone book. If you're not sure there will be a CVS or similar (might be called a Voluntary Action Centre or if a rural area, a Rural Community Council. These will have information about voluntary and community groups and whether there is any kind of carers centre in your area and might be able to point you in the direction of organisations that can take this up for/with you. Or your local Alzhiemers Disease Society or Age Concern or Mind might.

I am so looking forward to the smoking ban and resent smokers lighting up near me - but I'll stand fast and defend their right to smoke especially when they are like your dad, and are unable to easily make choices about giving up or moving where they can smoke. It's abusive and patronising. Sorry, rant over, I hope you can get in touch with some people who will take this up so your dad can enjoy what for him is a quality of life. Come back and let us know what happens. Best of luck Jan.

 

[J@ne]

I forgot to say...

when my mum was dying of cancer, she had given up smoking after years of struggling, but in the end she became very confused due to an infection, pain killers and heaven knows what else, and so the urge came back with a vengeance. It's an enduring source of regret to me that I didn't just wheel her bed downstairs and give her a fag - it's an awful discomfort when you are fully capable of understanding and making your own decisions, (thus speaks an ex-smoker) and when someone is confused too it's just cruel.

 

[Grommit]

As a carer and a smoker I just wonder how beneficial it is to care home staff to stop patients smoking in house and then wheel them outside during summer to face the disgusting stench of traffic and barbecues?

 

[CraigC]

Some links/facts:

http://www.nosmokinglaw.co.uk/
Lots of links to legistation and government websites
Source: No Smoking Law website


http://society.guardian.co.uk/socialcare/story/0,,2007046,00.html
Subject: The unfair smoking ban will mean fuming on the wards
Source: Guardian Newspaper

Kind Regards
Craig