Is this incontinence or not?

[Number3daughter]

Hello
Sorry, I know this is not a nice subject but hope someone can give advice.
I just want some advice on Mum and toilet. She is having a few accidents when she goes to the toilet. I don't know if it's because she sits and waits until the last minute to make a move to go to toilet or if it comes on her suddenly so she can't help it.
Also, it is usually loose as if her food has gone right through her.
Is this the incontinence that I have read about that can eventually happen when someone has AD?
Is incontinence always loose stools or should I get her checked out by GP?

 

[lin1]

Hi
I would say that if mums stools are loose when this happens that its not due to incontinence
But I am no medic

I suggest if mums stools have been loose for brief while say a couple of weeks then its best to go to the gp, their could be many causes

I am Lactose intolerant and If I forget to take my pills when I have milk products , I really have to sprint to the loo sorry if that's too much info
So I am guessing that the actual accidents are due to mum not being quick enough because she is loose

 

[rajahh]

L always understood incontinence started with urine, but I could be wrong.

I agree with previous post, if this has been going on for a week or so then you should see GP

My husband is urine incontinent, and now occasionally faeces incontinent too but not often, and not necessarily loose.

Jeannette

 

[wobbly]

Jeanette, my Dad started the other way round being faecally incontinent first.....

 

[rajahh]

Ok maybe I am just lucky ???? Jeannette

 

[Nebiroth]

I would strongly advise having this checked by the GP. Persistent loose stools is usually indicative of an underlying problem. Although there are many causes of loose stools they are one of the warning signs for bowel cancer - espescially if they have persisted for three weeks or more or are accompanied by a change in habit towards increased frequency. If there is blood, then medical advice should be sought right away as this is never normal. The cause is still likely to be benign, such as a food intolerance or even Irritable Bowel Syndrome but only a doctor can tell this.

What you describe doesn't sound like simply incontinence. This is more often simple loss of control (in dementia, it is often caused by the simple fact that the person cannot remember where the toilet is, or what they need to do when they feel the urge to go). A change in bowel habit, for example, increased frequency or a change in consistency of stool might well indicate an underlying problem that should be investigated.

As always it is much better to seek medical advice and find out there is nothing serious wrong than to "wait and see" or ignore warning signs, only to find out a serious problem has gone on so long that it has become difficult or impossible to treat effectively. Don;t worry about "wasting the doctor's time"m that is what they are there for and no doctor will object to a patient seeking advice over what are regarded as warning signs.

If your mum's GP cannot immediately identify a cause via a history and examination, then the symptoms become "unexplained" and therefore will prompt more tests. "Unexplained" symptoms are considered more worrying in elderly patients simply because the risks of serious disease rise with age.

 

[Number3daughter]

Thanks for all your responses
Since I posted that thread I've had to throw Mums duvet out, sister out getting another one now and bedding because we never know, Mum thought she passed wind then found a mess.
Mum slipped down a couple of stairs Saturday and broke her wrist. Won't go into it all now but she was crying but said not about her wrist but about us 3 daughters who dont care about her and have no feelings ( 2 of us live with her and other one here most of time and I can honestly say we jump through hoops to keep her happy)
Doctor came Saturday night but said they might keep her in cos it was so late but we knew that would send her over the edge so we went Sunday spent 6 hrs in A&e.
She vomited after the fall and vomits everytime she has something to eat and has these loose stools now. We thought the vomitting was down to shock after the fall and her wist being broken. We are doing everything we can to keep her out of hospital because being without one of us is her biggest anxiety and it would freak her out.
She has hardly eaten anything since Friday night and it all comes up again.

 

[Nebiroth]

In that case it sounds more like she has picke dup a virus. The "winter vomitting bug", Norovirus, is quite prevalent at the moment and it is extremely contagious.

The symptoms are nausea and vomitting; these often start suddenly and the vomitting can be severe (called 'projectile' as it is so forceful). So people also get diarrhea as well.

Norovirus is extremely unpleasant but not usually serious. However, in the very young or elderly it can lead to dehydration because their bodies do not have the reserves of a healthy adult. Persistent vomitting and diarrhea lead to loss of fluids and important salts and the person cannot compensate because they are unable to drink or eat anything.

Norovirus would be usually expected to improve approximately 48 hours after the first symptoms. If the symptoms are not improving then you should get your mum seen by a doctor.

If necessary, drugs can be used to stop the vomitting and diarrhea or in extreme cases a drip can be used to keep the person hydrated whilst the illness runs it's course.

A though occurs to me: as your mum broke her wrist did the hospital provide any medications such as pain relief or antibiotics? If they did then her symptoms could mean your mum is intolerant of one or more of them. Antibiotics commonly cause diarrhea but vomitting is a more significant sign.

I can only suggest that you have your mum examined by a doctor. In the meantime you could call the NHS Helpline on 0845 4647

But from what you say they will almost certainly advise your mum be seen by a doctor right away

If your mum shows the classic signs of dehydration such as severe confusion, sunken eyes, flesh that does not spring back after being pressed with a finger or not passing urine for longer than eight hours then you should call for an ambulance.

 

[rajahh]

can't help with the medical side, but the practical side can be addressed.

You neeed duvet protectors, and pattress protectors. These can be bought through incontinence choice . The service is usually very quick, and I think other members have used them.

This means you only have to wash the cover, and then sponge down the protective cover. also you can buy proctective pillow covers, and half sheets which are more absorbent so go over the ordinary bottom sheet.

Even if this is only temporary, it is a good investment.

Jeannette

 

[Jaxx23]

Just a thought, My mum had an issue a few weeks ago, exactly the same thing, when checking her medication, the pharmacy had changed her from 'Aricept' to a generic Donezepil (?)tablet, apparently the coating can cause tummy upset.....?

 

[Nebiroth]

They are the same drug but as you say one of the base ingredients or the coating may be different.

My mum takes co-careldopa for her Parkinsons and one brand makes her feel sick and another much less so.

 

[Number3daughter]

Thanks again everyone for your advice. Rang GP and managed to get a phone consult. He has made out a prescription for 2 sets of tablets, 1 for toilet problems and 1 for vomitting and if no change in 2 days to contact him again. Number2daughter gone for them now. Number1 and Number2 went to Tesco and stocked up with new duvets and mattress protectors but hope we won't need them now with the tablets

 

[Nebiroth]

Glad to hear you have been prescribed something. Doctors are often reluctant to visit a patient if they suspect Norovirus because it is so incredibly contagious that they are likely to not only catch it themselves but also pass it to everyone else they also visit. You can be made ill by as few as ten individual viruses and when someone with it vomits this contains tens of millions.

The virus is spread by touch but you can also catch it from the air because when someone vomits fine particles get sprayed, which you breath in, they go into your mouth and get swallowed, and the virus starts it's work.

Normal disinfectants are ineffective. If it is Norovirus I would recommend cleaning surfaces where possible with chlorine bleach. Soiled clothes and bed linens should be washed at the hottest temperature possible - preferably the 'boil wash' if the fabrics allow it. The virus can live for months in places like upholstery or carpets, this is partly why you get recurring outbreaks. Once you recover your immunity only lasts for 14 weeks, after this, you can catch the same bug again, so you get repeated waves of infection.

Sorry to say, if it is Norovirus, it is very likely you are all going to get it as well unless you are very lucky. If you do, you should limit your contact with others for at least 48 hours after your symptoms stop.

Many people feel better and unwittingly go on to infect others because they are still contagious for the 48 hour period following the start of feeling better.

 

[Number3daughter]

Mum seems a bit better now, haven't had to change the bed yet today. the tablets from GP must be working. She has follow up with fracture clinic tomorrow to put full cast on and I'm going to mention to the consultant about vomitting and runs because I'm sure he deals with a lot of elderly and how their bodies react to broken bones.
She's still not interested in eating much though so if she doesn't pick up by Friday I'll be contacting Gp again.

 

[ITBookworm]

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works.... If Mum has had Norovirus (or some similar nasty bug) is it a good idea to take her to a hospital tomorrow? She could still be infectious for 48 hours after the sickness etc stops. Maybe phone the fracture clinic today and see what they say?

 

[Nebiroth]

I agree, telephone the clinic and ask. If you have Norovirus the normal advice is to avoid places like care home sor hospitals for at least 48 hours after the symptoms have completely stopped.

It cannot be overstated how incredibly infectious this illness is, nor the devastating effect it can have on a hospital once you get an outbreak. It spreads with lightning speed, causes staff shortages just when they are most needed and requires ward closures for deep cleaning in an attempt to eliminate the virus from the environment.

And, of course, hospitals are full of sick people for whom the virus is much more serious than it is for a healthy person.