LPA, best and only way?

[wildparrots]

Is an LPA the best and only way to help my mum?
My mother is 92, lives alone and has recently been diagnosed. My sister and myself live close to her and are her primary carers. Our brother lives 200 miles away and visits every month, usually on a day-trip basis.
During his last visit, the four of us had a family meeting at my mum's house, to confirm that mum agreed to donating an LPA. She agreed, and would have been happy to sign the document at her leisure but my brother kept insisting; "Get her to sign now! She needs to sign, just get her to sign!"
I questioned the ethics of his behaviour but thought it better to leave at that point.
I wasn't surprised the next day to find that my mother had signed the document and that my brother had signed up as an atourney in both the Health and Finance sections.
In order to do my best for my mother's welfare shall i sign as well? Or should i stay out of it and challenge anything that would be detrimental to her welfare, from the outside?

 

[chris53]

Hi wild parrots, what a kind thought, LPA is one way you can help your mum, and wow 92 years young! many ways to keep in the loop is to make sure yourself and sister can speak to mums doctor, CPN, social services etc, therefore this is a health issue, in regards to finance oh boy depends what the situation is, if you and your sister are dealing with mums finances then please make sure this is going to continue, with mum being pressured into signing LPA with your brother you need to speak to him and ask why it is just him as he is not a full time regular carer, can the person who got your brother to sign enlighten you?

May I wish you good luck as this is a very unpleasant side of looking after a loved one
Chris x

 

[Ellie315]

I would say that if she has the capacity to sign, I would also push to have it signed sooner rather than later. Not for quesitonable morality, but because we were told she didn't have capacity and therefore we don't even have the choice. And, if you think you are going to want input, I wouldn't bother trying from the outside if someone else is already named. I would put both you and your sister down. If the appointees argue then it would probably go to the courts anyway. And, as you do the main care, you would have a good case for yourselves.

 

[wildparrots]

I would say that if she has the capacity to sign, I would also push to have it signed sooner rather than later. Not for quesitonable morality, but because we were told she didn't have capacity and therefore we don't even have the choice. And, if you think you are going to want input, I wouldn't bother trying from the outside if someone else is already named. I would put both you and your sister down. If the appointees argue then it would probably go to the courts anyway. And, as you do the main care, you would have a good case for yourselves.

I appreciate what you say about the need for a swift signature, just thought my brother's remarks were an unnecessarry outburst but an example of his bullying ways. Unfortunately my sister is swayed by his behaviour, "we have to give him a chance", "he's familly", even though he does nothing for our mother's welfare and will not be persuaded to take an interest.
Thanks for the advice on signing, i will do that. Very heartened to hear you say a court would favour the main carers. I cant say my experience of British justice is that straightforward. Didn't someone say, the justice you get is proportional to the fee of your 'brief'. Oh! and my brother's wife is a solicitor!

 

[wildparrots]

Hi wild parrots, what a kind thought, LPA is one way you can help your mum, and wow 92 years young! many ways to keep in the loop is to make sure yourself and sister can speak to mums doctor, CPN, social services etc, therefore this is a health issue, in regards to finance oh boy depends what the situation is, if you and your sister are dealing with mums finances then please make sure this is going to continue, with mum being pressured into signing LPA with your brother you need to speak to him and ask why it is just him as he is not a full time regular carer, can the person who got your brother to sign enlighten you?

May I wish you good luck as this is a very unpleasant side of looking after a loved one
Chris x

Thanks for your useful response. Up until a couple of years ago mum was completely independent. Now she needs help with everything and is very reluctant to be steered towards exercise, to shop or to socialise like she used to do. It is very encouraging to read your response and other posts on this forum, to know you are not alone, or the worst off in a common struggle is priceless.

 

[nicoise]

Dear Wildparrots,

Whatever your brother's motivations, especially given that he isn't her main carer, it will be very useful to have an LPA for your Mum given her diagnosis (it would be a good move to also have one for Health and Welfare in addition to the Financial one). It may be just that your brother's wife as a solicitor is giving him good advice - which she is. But you need advice too!

But it is also important to have at least one other person as the attorney too - if your brother is unable to act as attorney for whatever reason, perhaps his own ill health, or he is abroad, or just 200 miles away, when something needs actioning then there is an alternative person to handle things.

The two or three of you should be able to act "jointly and severally" - to act together, or separately. If you choose "jointly" then all attorneys must act together on every action.

There is also an element of check and balance; it will give you a greater chance to have a say in what happens with your Mum's affairs - far more difficult from the outside; and give you an element of control with her money. I'll guess that you and your sister do your Mum's shopping - how does the money side work with that? Those are the kind of areas that you need to consider with the LPA and access to bank accounts or pensions.

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=154

 

[lin1]

The two or three of you should be able to act "jointly and severally" - to act together, or separately. If you choose "jointly" then all attorneys must act together on every action.
[

You beat me to it
Hello Wildparrots

I too think its best to get things like this sorted sooner than later
Once a person is deemed not to have capacity to donate LPA, then you may have to go for Deputyship and thats a whole different ball game

Only your mumcan decide if she wants to create an LPA and who shewants to be her Attorney(s), so I would check with mum what her wishes are, to me it does seem a bit odd the way your brother has done this but he may have had good reasons

I too recommend if their is more than one Attorney that you opt for , jointly and severally , that way you dont all need to act together with everything each time something needs to be dealt with

You also need to decide who to use as a certificate provder who will check whether or not mum has capacity to dontate LPA to anyone

This may help allieviate any worries you may have.
an LPA only comes into force once its been registerd with the COP and the required period of time for anyone who needs to be notified so they can register an objection has passed

 

[Izzy]

Good morning. I'm just here agreeing with the others re you and your sister signing it.

It's as well your mum signed when she did. I left it too late with my mum. By the time we decided on POA her capacity suddenly went downhill and we never managed to get it done. She was over 90 before we thought of it and 93 when she died. Fortunately it didn't matter for us. My brother and I agreed on everything in relation to mum and her GP always treated me as if I had POA.

Good luck. Let us know how you get on. x

 

[Chemmy]

Chances are he's just acting on your SIL's advice.

I agree with the others though; don't assume anything when it comes to families - get your name on there too, and preferably your sister's as well.

 

[wildparrots]

Thanks for all your replies and useful information.
The story has moved on;
When my mum signed the LPA document she also expressed a desire to have a local solicitor deal with the paperwork, my sister and myself agreed that it was for the best despite the cost and despite our brother offering that his wife "would do it for free".
I contacted a local solicitor, through the organisation, solicitors for the elderly. She has now filled in their preliminary questionnaire. I have to admit to coaching her through it, i advised her to only put down myself and my sister as attorneys, since we are her primary carers, we are the ones who ensure that she can live independently. The discussion lasted all day. She would like to see my brother included. Eventually mum completed the form and it was sent off.
I fear his inclusion on a number of levels;
I am suspicious of his motives. Why after all these years of disinterest does he suddenly want to be a decision maker?
He is disruptive. A year ago he was wanting to "drive through" building work on my mother's house. She would find this very upsetting.
He has an undue influence on my sister. When i told my sister that mum had not included him as an attorney, she said, "that's fine he wouldnt want to be anyway". However, the next day she said that she had been speaking to him on the phone and "he does want to be included" This morning she phoned me to say it was better he was kept out of it to avoid complication. This flip-flopping is hard to cope with now, let alone as part of an LPA 'threesome'.
To me, my brother shows no evidence of being a fit and proper person to be an attorney. He has no record of involvement in mum's affairs or any real interest in them. Trouble is my sister will say "oh, he's familly. You've got to give him a chance" and my mum will say " i'm only arguinging for his inclusion because he is my eldest son."
I just hope they dont say it when the solicitor comes round to draw up the LPA!

 

[DozyDoris]

Hi there, I've been away from TP for a while now, it's good you've got a solicitor now. But the good thing with POA is that there has to be a certificate provider who has spoken to the doner in private to ensure that what your brother has tried to do does not happen, he could not have applied to the OPG without this which is such a relief. It is also, as other's have said, for him to be the attorney, it's not practical at all!!!!!!!!
The only other thing I would add is this
ALSO APPLY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE POA (or rather talk to your Mum about this). I thought that I would not need this, but if your Mum doesn't have it then other agencies could take a decision about her future care out of your hands if she looses capacity, we came so close to this happening last year that I am now proceeding with this in the hope that our solicitor still deems Dad to have capacity to sign
Get both fully registered as it saves time later xx

 

[Traceych68]

Hello wildparrots,

Sorry I can't give any advice but would like to 'hijack/add' to this thread.

I'm about to approach the same hurdle as you for my dad however mum is still about and caring for him. She is devoted to him and will care for him until her last breathe, which my brother and I agree is not good for her health. We are awaiting the results of his MRI but know there is absolutely no question he has dementia of some form which both mum and dad are in denial of atm.

So, my question is, do we get POA of both kinds for both parents now or just get it for dad? Brother and I want to be joint attorneys and we both know mum will not be able
to make tough decisions in the future where as, we hope, we can be jointly more
objective.

Apologies again for adding to your thread. X

 

[wildparrots]

Thanks DozyDoris,
Very interesting what you say about the need to get the Health and Welfare part of the LPA too. Good thing my mum ticked that box in the solicitor's questionnaire! Trouble is, the solicitor keeps asking why we want that as well as the financial part? And why my sister and i want to act jointly? Don't we know that if one of us dies, then the LPA loses its validity?
I like you , think the Welfare part is vital, even though it doubles the cost. As for acting jointly, i see this as a moderating influence - neither of us is allowed to act rashly as individuals. But i havent heard from the solicitor since then! Will ring her today.

 

[Norfolkgirl]

Hi I totally get where you're coming from. I've had similar experiences and concerns of my own family member who didn't care about my mum like I did, who tricked her out of her money (he was already wealthy), mum is now in a care home when in her late 60's, but he now has LPA with help of another solicitor family member (whose daughter was in prison for fraud) and I believe they used influence on my mum knowing how weak she is. My mum suffers cognitive (ability to think) impairment and amnesia. The family member in question is a sociopath/psychopath (google it) which sounds similar to your brother's actions. You do need to be aware of everything going on with your mum, especially financial affairs. We were all once a happy and loving family until this happened. My mother would be horrified if she was well enough to realise. Don't get social workers involved, they have no clue of my mum's illnesses and are just going by what my mum believes and the manipulation by the family member in question to pretend there's nothing to worry about. Police won't do anything unless mum gives consent which she won't, she doesn't believe me even though I have evidence, she is totally oblivious and I feel helpless in trying to protect her. Be suspicious of your SIL, even doing it for free sounds dodgy. I'm not happy that your brother will be appointed severally, that gives him free reign. I guess using an independent solicitor is good, just be aware of how he/she is doing things in your mum's best interests. Good luck

 

[wildparrots]

Thanks Norfolkgirl, i'm glad you picked up on the danger of my brother having power of attorney especially if it is granted "severally". As you say, that enables an attorney to act with "free reign", especially if the other attorney/s are having a off-day. Hopefully my mum will continue to see sense and keep him out of the attorney arrangements but anything could happen when the solicitor (eventually) calls.

 

[Norfolkgirl]

Thanks Norfolkgirl, i'm glad you picked up on the danger of my brother having power of attorney especially if it is granted "severally". As you say, that enables an attorney to act with "free reign", especially if the other attorney/s are having a off-day. Hopefully my mum will continue to see sense and keep him out of the attorney arrangements but anything could happen when the solicitor (eventually) calls.

Do keep me posted, interested to hear what solicitor advises