ss threatening court of protection - help

donque

Registered User
Jul 15, 2012
45
0
Middlesex
There has been a phone complaint about me to social services saying I was seen mentally and physicall abusing my mum - because I raised my voice at her in a cafe to try and stop her spilling hot coffe on me and her she was being particularly challenging and it was her first day in the home she was so distressed I took her out for a short walk she was also showing signs of dehydration - and she gets very confused and distressed when this happens she ended up pulling the table over after 2 other customers tried tio help which just made my mum worse and more agitated

2 weeks after I was sent a text message by her previouse ss worker saying there was a serious allegation and I was not to take my mum out

I have had nothing in writing but was dragged into a meeting with no notice to be told I was being investigated they would not give me any details and have not informed me what is happening I was not given any opportunity to say my side and I had informed the home of the incident when I returned from the cafe as I was so upset and mum did not want to go back to the home - and I had to ask for help to get her back to the ward

I have been told I now cannot take my mum out of the home she has recently been placed in without a staff escort - and as they have no staff available at night I cannot take her out to my home or to eat - the evenings are the worst for my mum she is so bored and has no one to talk to

A friend went to take her out tonight and I was with them and they would not let my mum out because I was with her friend my mum was devastated and so upset as she was looking forward to going out for dinner - so I am now being told if I am with anyone who wishes to take my mum out she cannot go without an escort so it seesm they are punishing her and her friends and relatives because they are apparently investigating me - can this be right - what power do they have to do this ?

Is this legal without any official written notice?
am I presumed guilty by allegation?
what authority does the home have ?

The home is now telling me the court of protection will be involved but still no letter etc

I am beside myself with worry my mum lives for me hates the home and only waits for my visits - I have many complaints outstanding with the previous ss office cpn etc covering 2 years and feel they are trying to do what they can to block anything to do with me and my mum as the home has also not answered health queries about my mum

No one seems interested on the truth only what others perceive

I feel they may well try and get my LPA taken away so that they have absolute power over my mum and I am out of the picture and cannot protect my mums needs any more
can anyone help
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
I suppose I'm a bit surprised about how you could have been tracked down? In my experience most people are depressingly anonymous, so if this person was able to identify you I imagine it must have been a fairly exceptional experience.

I imagine that what you are dealing with now is some form of safe guarding procedure. While I can understand why you are not happy about it, I think you should be reassured that it is taking place as it provides a measure of assurance that your mother is being adequately protected.
 

lin1

Registered User
Jan 14, 2010
9,350
0
East Kent
Hello Donque
OMG I am so sorry to hear this, you must be so worrid and upset

Sorry I have no advise as I have never been in this situation
I just couldnt read your post and pass by

I am sue others hear will be able to give you some advise layer on today

Just had a thought
you could try contacting the Alzheimers helpline above

or admiral nurses , I will put a link to them in a mo
sadly these nurses are few and far between but they do have a national helpline that is open during certain hrs

http://www.dementiauk.org/what-we-do/admiral-nursing-direct/
 
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SWMBO1950

Registered User
Nov 17, 2011
2,076
0
Essex
Hi Donque

I can imagine how upset you are especially as this appears to be an anonymous complaint. Was there someone there that knew you and/or your mum as like jenniferpa says it is amazing they tracked you down?

We all have 'off' days but when challenging behaviour comes into the equasion especially when out people do get embarrassed and react often not as they would at home (as I have said many times before none of us have ever professed to be saints).

Can I suggest you either contact a solicitor or if the cost of this is not affordable you get to a Citizens Advice Bureau for some urgent advice on your rights in this matter. Your local Alzeimers Association Office may also be able to offer assistance.

Best Wishes and let us know how you got on.



I suppose I'm a bit surprised about how you could have been tracked down? In my experience most people are depressingly anonymous, so if this person was able to identify you I imagine it must have been a fairly exceptional experience.

I imagine that what you are dealing with now is some form of safe guarding procedure. While I can understand why you are not happy about it, I think you should be reassured that it is taking place as it provides a measure of assurance that your mother is being adequately protected.
 

donque

Registered User
Jul 15, 2012
45
0
Middlesex
there ws no tracking down -

I tried explained to the 2 customers who asked to help and the owner that it was only my mums first day at the home down the road - there is only one

and my mum was so distressed about the situation as she did not want to be in the home of course as thank god she still has much lucid time on good days but this was a bad day her first day at the home - I arived around after lunch and my mum was not wearing her partial top and bottom dentures she apparently had eaten breakfast and dinner wihtout her teeth in when I asked about this I was told by a carer thye did not know she had teeth - and then another said she refused to put them in - in the morning that is more than likely however go back and try again don't just lesave someone without teeth so much for dignity
She was also displaying signs of dehydration confusion distress etc so I took her out for a walk not 300 yards away from the home to a tiny boutique style coffee shop and my mum was just all over the place
As others on here I would do anything for my mum we have always been close and gone through many family traumas together and alone my sister lives abroad and my mum was one of 10 with only 2 living sisters who live miles away - 94 and 92 years old

This experience with agencies and authorities not communicating is the norm its always a one way street they say one thing and do another

Read my other posts on this forum I have had 2 years of fighting to get my mum help of any kind for her chronic pain and her illness
 

donque

Registered User
Jul 15, 2012
45
0
Middlesex
excuse me

I suppose I'm a bit surprised about how you could have been tracked down? In my experience most people are depressingly anonymous, so if this person was able to identify you I imagine it must have been a fairly exceptional experience.

I imagine that what you are dealing with now is some form of safe guarding procedure. While I can understand why you are not happy about it, I think you should be reassured that it is taking place as it provides a measure of assurance that your mother is being adequately protected.

I am aghast at what you have said - my mother does not need protection from me its the agencies and the ss who have messed up her life in the last 2 years - I have fought for my mum for over 2 years every step of the way and they have to be pushed in to any action at all - but as soon as it involves me they are all over it like a pack of wolves -
My mother has never been adequetley protected which is why she is in a home now - these agencies have caused more damage to her physically and mentally due to their lack of attention and breach of legal duty of care than this disease and in spite of many complaints they are self policing and close ranks and nothing gets addressesd
 

donque

Registered User
Jul 15, 2012
45
0
Middlesex
I suppose I'm a bit surprised about how you could have been tracked down? In my experience most people are depressingly anonymous, so if this person was able to identify you I imagine it must have been a fairly exceptional experience.



I imagine that what you are dealing with now is some form of safe guarding procedure. While I can understand why you are not happy about it, I think you should be reassured that it is taking place as it provides a measure of assurance that your mother is being adequately protected.

I was not tracked down I had nothing to hide I told them we were from the home virtually next door and it was my mums first day and she was extremely stressed about it as she did not want to be there and away form all familiar to her - as I would be and I don't have dementia
 

jan.s

Registered User
Sep 20, 2011
7,353
0
72
Dear Donque,

This must be most distressing for you and your mum. Sometimes SS are invasive, and act in a heavy handed way, which is very hurtful to you and your mum.

I can understand your situation when in the cafe - my husband kicked off in a pub one day! Not my favourite memory.

It seems to me that you need to get some advice about your rights with regard to your mum. I would suggest, Like Lin, the Alzheimer's Society as your first call, as I'm sure they can point you in the right direction.

When people don't understand dementia, they see our actions as over the top, but then they haven't been there and experienced the fall out.

Keep posting and let us know how things are going.

Sending you a hug, which I hope helps a little!

Jan x
 

Sue J

Registered User
Dec 9, 2009
8,032
0
Donque

This is awful. I wouldn't want the sort of 'protection' that immediately stops outings without a full explanation, investigation of what has happened - which includes that you have been caring without their support for two years for someone with dementia a very challenging condition. I also don't understand why when her friend came you couldn't go out together, couldn't she be an escort? or is she an accomplice!? Sorry, I don't mean to belittle your plight, am shocked by it and just feel for you.
 

JPG1

Account Closed
Jul 16, 2008
3,391
0
Donque,

It's difficult for anyone here to understand the full extent of what you are going through, and I feel very sorry for you and alarmed that you should have received a text message from a social worker about this. That is totally unprofessional.

There are full policies and procedures that all local authorities have to work to when dealing with anything that comes within the safeguarding of adults at risk. (It used to be called safeguarding of vulnerable adults.) Those policies and procedures make it quite clear who is responsible for all contact with the person at the centre of any complaint.

Don't be put off by that title, donque, it's just the team where all concerns and complaints have to be dealt with.

The rules governing the records that they are required to keep must be adhered to. Text messages like the one you received from a social worker don't feature in those rules!!

For anyone who wants to read the multi-agency procedures that affect London, download the Report from this link : http://www.scie.org.uk/publications/reports/report39.asp

If you want help from people who really know what they're talking about, I suggest you phone the Helpline of the Residents and Relatives Association.

http://www.relres.org/what-we-do.html

The Relatives & Residents Association
1 The Ivories
6-18 Northampton Street
London N1 2HY

Helpline: 020 7359 8136 (Monday - Friday 9:30am - 4:30pm)

Tel: 020 7359 8148
Fax: 020 7226 6603
Email:info@relres.org

If they can't help you, I'm sure they will put you in touch with someone who can.

I wish you well.
 
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nmintueo

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
844
0
UK
No one seems interested on the truth only what others perceive

I feel they may well try and get my LPA taken away so that they have absolute power over my mum and I am out of the picture and cannot protect my mums needs any more
can anyone help

Can't help from experience, but if I were faced with that I would get a lawyer immediately to protect my and my mother's interests.

SS are interested in protecting themselves, first of all, hence this kind of reaction to a mere allegation.
 

SWMBO1950

Registered User
Nov 17, 2011
2,076
0
Essex
........or as I said the Citizens Advice Bureau if the cost of a solicitor is too much.


Can't help from experience, but if I were faced with that I would get a lawyer immediately to protect my and my mother's interests.

SS are interested in protecting themselves, first of all, hence this kind of reaction to a mere allegation.
 

NeverGiveUp

Registered User
May 17, 2011
1,034
0
Donque

Doesn't suprise me one little bit, we have been to Hell and back with the SS & NHS, I don't know whether it was because I have made a number of serious complaints. I fully intend publishing everything that has happend to us over the past 6 years, it reads like fiction, we have, at times, felt as though we have been living an unpleasant nightmare, it is the feeling of sheer disbelief that is the worst. Problem is when you complain, presenting a very strong case there is a closing of ranks/ records are missing/ there are misunderstandings'/ people are 'out of touch with modern social work techniques' - the list of excuses is endless. Not all of the allegations made are in the notes, there have to be secondary files. Does mum have any sort of capacity? If so, she can request her SS file.

I know what those safeguarding interogations are like, it isn't nice, I tried to take it further, you need to know who pays the person's wages to put a complaint in, with partnership working it can be difficult to find out. I could not complain about the person because no-one would admit to employing her.

I agree that you should take legal advice very quickly, they know you are weaker than them on your own. Take a witness to all meetings, do not tell them in advance. Write to Court of Protection to see if any action has been taken, forms downloadable. We had a nasty suspicion that someone was taking over mum, don't want to say to much as it is ongoing.

Was there a camera in the coffee shop? Do you know who the other people were and can they be found?

Are you on good terms with your local police? Something happened to us which was seriously not right, I felt the need to e mail our local police, it worried me a lot, in case 'something' happened to us I wanted it put on record.

Be VERY careful, remember to have a witness with you, the notes will most likely not be at all as you remember it. Think about getting an advocate to represent you, try Action for Family Carers. If it all proceeds the SS might appoint IMCAs to represent mum's rights, They do not represent you. you want to be sure of what happened and also the process of how you were told. Right down names of everyone, include surnames, memory loss seems to be a common occurance.

If you are sure that you are right and get pushed into a corner remember that you then have a nice solid wall behind your back. Make sure that anyone you get to be with you isn't also employed under contract to the SS/NHS, advocacy services are contracted out.

Just be sure that you are right and reflect if there is anything nasty which can crawl out of the woodwork.

Good luck, try to stay calm, they will try to tie you up in knots, try to say as little as possible, our mistake was that we were too open.
 

donque

Registered User
Jul 15, 2012
45
0
Middlesex
I know you are right - its not paranoia its the way these agencies are

Donque

Doesn't suprise me one little bit, we have been to Hell and back with the SS & NHS, I don't know whether it was because I have made a number of serious complaints. I fully intend publishing everything that has happend to us over the past 6 years, it reads like fiction, we have, at times, felt as though we have been living an unpleasant nightmare, it is the feeling of sheer disbelief that is the worst. Problem is when you complain, presenting a very strong case there is a closing of ranks/ records are missing/ there are misunderstandings'/ people are 'out of touch with modern social work techniques' - the list of excuses is endless. Not all of the allegations made are in the notes, there have to be secondary files. Does mum have any sort of capacity? If so, she can request her SS file.

I know what those safeguarding interogations are like, it isn't nice, I tried to take it further, you need to know who pays the person's wages to put a complaint in, with partnership working it can be difficult to find out. I could not complain about the person because no-one would admit to employing her.

I agree that you should take legal advice very quickly, they know you are weaker than them on your own. Take a witness to all meetings, do not tell them in advance. Write to Court of Protection to see if any action has been taken, forms downloadable. We had a nasty suspicion that someone was taking over mum, don't want to say to much as it is ongoing.

Was there a camera in the coffee shop? Do you know who the other people were and can they be found?

Are you on good terms with your local police? Something happened to us which was seriously not right, I felt the need to e mail our local police, it worried me a lot, in case 'something' happened to us I wanted it put on record.

Be VERY careful, remember to have a witness with you, the notes will most likely not be at all as you remember it. Think about getting an advocate to represent you, try Action for Family Carers. If it all proceeds the SS might appoint IMCAs to represent mum's rights, They do not represent you. you want to be sure of what happened and also the process of how you were told. Right down names of everyone, include surnames, memory loss seems to be a common occurance.

If you are sure that you are right and get pushed into a corner remember that you then have a nice solid wall behind your back. Make sure that anyone you get to be with you isn't also employed under contract to the SS/NHS, advocacy services are contracted out.

Just be sure that you are right and reflect if there is anything nasty which can crawl out of the woodwork.

Good luck, try to stay calm, they will try to tie you up in knots, try to say as little as possible, our mistake was that we were too open.

Everything you say is the same experience I have had to date can we talk info at (moderator note: email address removed)and no one believes the catalogue of disasters they end up thinking its always something you have done to bring this down - this is what happens when you call their practice into question and catch them out - it does not matter what their policy is they do not follow it and no one forces them to - the other problem people like us who have had issues don't know about all the other people also having issues otherwise we would have safety in numbers - I am always told well no one else has complained even when its not a complaint merely and observation of things going wrong giving them the opportunity to put it right but they never do - I can totally understand people getting aggressive about it no one listens cares or acts even if the law is on your side try finding someone to fight these things when there is no cash in it - this complaint about me has played right into their hands I am already branded as a trouble maker
 
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winda

Registered User
Oct 17, 2011
2,037
0
Nottinghamshire
This is a very upsetting situation and I can see why you are upset.

But you know that you haven't done anything wrong and so I would have confidence in that knowledge. My husband used to get very aggressive and angry with me when we were out and it became impossible to take him anywhere in the end. I always ended up in tears when I got home - the strain was just too much.

The people who witnessed this event obviously had no understanding of the situation and so would have found it distressing. How awful for you that it has now means the authorities distrust you.

I hope that it will all work out well when they realise that they have made a mistake - but meanwhile I would be very careful how you deal with things, especially when at the CH. They will be watching you to see how you respond to your mum and it would help you if you can get them 'on-side'.

I agree that getting some kind of legal advice would also help. Many solicitors will give you half an hour's advice free of charge.

I wish you well. Let us know how you get on.
 

SWMBO1950

Registered User
Nov 17, 2011
2,076
0
Essex
'The Establishment' never likes being stood up to. I complained last year about my mothers care - and I use the word care lightly - in a local hospital. Their response was predicible however on this occasion I was able to shoot holes in every comment (one of my jobs before retiring was NHS complaints handling). They offered me a meeting with the ward staff but I did not bother as I felt I had made the point. My main gripe was her underwear not being changed (she ended up with e-coli in her urine) which they assured me had been done. So I told them that unless they used the same brand as me (i.e. from a major chemist chain), and the ones in her cupboard had mated and reproduced in numbers overnight - no they had not! I ended up doing it every day when I arrived for visiting time.

Keep fighting your Mums corner and as I always say who else will look after their interests to the same degree - only family!



Everything you say is the same experience I have had to date can we talk info at (moderator note: email address removed)and no one believes the catalogue of disasters they end up thinking its always something you have done to bring this down - this is what happens when you call their practice into question and catch them out - it does not matter what their policy is they do not follow it and no one forces them to - the other problem people like us who have had issues don't know about all the other people also having issues otherwise we would have safety in numbers - I am always told well no one else has complained even when its not a complaint merely and observation of things going wrong giving them the opportunity to put it right but they never do - I can totally understand people getting aggressive about it no one listens cares or acts even if the law is on your side try finding someone to fight these things when there is no cash in it - this complaint about me has played right into their hands I am already branded as a trouble maker
 

Sooe

Registered User
Nov 10, 2008
111
0
Donque

Like others I just didn't want to read and pass by such an awful awful tale, I hope you manage to sort things out, people have no idea how challenging this horrid disease is and how hard it is to manage, you are doing right by your Mum and need to be caring and watching out for her - my sympathies in this horror story - but Jennifer is right it is a comfort on one level to know that the home THINK they are caring for your Mum's safety. Good luck with it all sounds truly horrendous and very scary. Just do take it carefully and legally, and try and stay calm and rational. Sorry that sounds just too easy but please bear in mind when all you truly want to do is scream shout and throw your own trantrum x
 

hotrod

Registered User
Jan 30, 2012
7
0
This ablsolutely amazes me. I want to get them involved and help with my mum and have been told I can't until she doesn;t know any better AAARRRGGGHH

I am so sorry to hear all this but get advise that is all you can do. I have no experience and hope I don;t but couldn't not let you know that you have support here.
 

donque

Registered User
Jul 15, 2012
45
0
Middlesex
allegations

I have been asking for clarification and procedures re complaint I have had nothing in writing from anyone and not one response to any of my emails to date
i am just in the dark

I cannot take my mum out without an escort form the home of ocurse they have no staff in the evening so I cannot now take her to my home

I am devastated as they are stealing time from me and my mum I donlt know how long it will be before she does not know me and she is so distressed that she cannot come out with me

This could take months to sort out and it could be too late for me andmy mum to spend precious time together I need an advocate for me to liaise with these agnecies its a wall of silence they will not even tell me by what authority they are stopping me going out with my mum alone

Even if I hsave someone with me I have ot be back by 8pm before my mum moved in they said there were no restrictions about going away or being back by 10

Now my mum is there they have the power to more or less do as they wish
Can anyone help I cannot sleep eat or rest
 

Lau123

Registered User
Jul 8, 2012
2
0
I cannot offer any advice other than what others have offered what I can say is that I have been in a similar position and really this has got to stop.
One thing I did find useful was I asked for my mother’s records under the Data Protection Act which revealed more than I anticipated and my local MP did get a meeting with the authorities where he established that the manner in which they had conducted the safeguarding wasn’t in line with safeguarding procedures. Knowing that an independent person was involved they did ease off
Unfortunately in the euphoria of what the authorities do they forget that there is one vulnerable defenceless individual who cannot understand why this is happening and suffers enough without having further upset.
I have found in these instances that the authorities are judge and jury; it’s as if there is no one above them. What I have also learnt through my fight is that there are defenceless people out there that truly require safeguarding but social services tend to ignore the severe true cases.
In my case even when evidence was found contradicting the allegations I still appeared to be labelled as a perpetrator where in reality I was an innocent victim trying to fight an army by myself whilst also protecting my mum! I think there should be a support group who could assist the individual and their parent whilst investigations are being carried out to stop them from immediately exploding the whole issue before they have the full facts. Please keep me updated I do know how you are feeling right now.