Just did'nt know what to say

sonia owen

Registered User
Hi All,

I just wanted to ask what any of you would say to this problem. Which a friend of mine, had to deal with the other day.
She was visiting her hubby who is in a Dementia unit. He went off to the loo but seemed to be rather a long time,She went in and found they had taken all his clothes off and had his hands down the loo. Sorry.He wasp ulling out his poo and putting it all into the washbasin. She called for someone to help a cleaner came. She had to leave as she was so upset.
All I could say was did she get a chance to talk to the staff in charge of the unit. She said they were all busy at the time, and she just wanted to get out of the place being so distressed. She was going to ring later to see how long or if he has done this before. He doesnot seem to know her anymore.

I found it very hard knowing what to say to her at the time, other than how very sorry I was that this happened to himIt's not his fault its this rotten illness. Gave her a hug.What can you say or do about dealing with this kind of problem.
I hope I have not upset anyone, but I want to support my friend in any way I can.

Thankyou
Love Sonia xxxxx
 

annebythesea

Registered User
Hi Sonia, how awful for your friend and I'm sure you did just the right thing. It's so hard to see someone behaving in a way we feel is so inappropriate/dirty. The only thing I know is that we have to understand that the behaviour makes sense to the person - it's just that we can't get inside their thought process to see why it makes sense. Glad the staff were able to help and hope your friend has got some answers to reassure her (it may be that hubby's meds haven't settled down yet and his behaviours will normalise and she will get something of hubby back for a time).
Sorry if this is a rubbish reply, I just didn't want to leave your thread without saying something.
Anne
 

Witzend

Registered User
Aug 29, 2007
4,283
0
SW London
Sonia, please tell your friend not to be upset. This sort of thing just happens with dementia - it is nobody's fault. My mother has largely forgotten what you're supposed to do in the loo - I won't go into a lot of detail but here's an example: when I've said, come on, let's wash your hands now, she has started trying to put them into the flushing loo. Past a certain stage they have to be taken and gently told/helped what to do, in just the same the way you'd tell and help a toddler.

Of course it's a shock and distressing when you see this sort of thing for the first time,
but the only way is to tell yourself they can't help it any more than a baby can - just try to accept it philosophically. I'm sure there must be a lot of 'incidents' with my mother when I'm not there - which is most of the time - but nobody can watch them all non-stop.
 

meme

Registered User
Aug 29, 2011
1,953
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London
on a different tack..for the carers and home staff who clean off and up poo on a regular basis it must be awfull and no wonder occasions occur where they get less than sensitive at times.
 

Grannie G

Volunteer Moderator
Apr 3, 2006
81,455
0
Kent
I doubt anyone would know what to say to make your friend feel comforted Sonia, it was such a distressing behaviour.
I`m sure just to know you felt for her would have been enough.
 

Haylett

Registered User
Feb 4, 2011
1,144
0
Sonia, we have had to deal with this and similar with my MIL. And it's great that your friend has someone (you) she can confide in, and know that you won't be shocked or think less of her husband, for it. That's the best sort of help we all need - the freedom to be able to tell it like it is, to someone who is genuinely sympathetic and not deterred from visiting again or helping out.

I don't know what the answer is though - except that from a staff point of view, dealing with poo and the unusual places you find it! - does get easier (vinyl gloves are a wonderful thing and wet wipes can easily deal with messy hands until you can get everything cleared up!). I'm amazed that my MIL doesn't have more upset tummies as a result of having less than hygienic hands - but she is fitter than before. She used to wipe hands on her clothes, on towels in her bathroom, her inconti pants - or not at all - sometimes the walls. She often put poo in the basin and we'd have to fish it out of the plughole.

Having spoken to others, none of this is unusual in dementia - but it can also be another 'phase', trick of the brain - and so that too, passes. Witzend's right - if there's a chance someone can try to help your friend's husband 'relearn' washing hands and basic loo hygiene, there's a good possibility that he might retrieve some of the unlearned behaviour. MIL has now gone back to using loo paper again. Doesn't always get it in the loo - but that's OK. And she also has a go at washing her hands.

I'm so sorry your friend was distressed. The twists and turns of this illness are sometimes hard to take - but I'm very glad she has you to turn to.
 

Mun

Registered User
Mar 19, 2012
294
0
South Yorkshire
Sonia,
I've seen my dad with his hands in the loo when he's had his bowels opened & mum says she regularly finds streaks of brown marks on towels in the bathroom where clearly he's wiped his hands(sorry,don't want to offend,but just to be honest & show to Sonia her friend is not alone in this) :(
Val x
 

Timeout

Registered User
Feb 10, 2012
204
0
Yes, Mum does this in the CH too. She is still very independent & will not tolerate help in the toileting department at all. She is ok when going to the actual toilet but there is a commode in the room for night times.

She will fish it out of the commode and put it down the sink or out of the window. Its hard to imagine how a strong, smart, indepemdemt woman would do this - to look at her she's immaculate and sounds like she has all her faculties when she talks, honestly, if you met her for the first time you wouldn't initially think there was anything wrong with her.

The staff at the CH say it's quite common and they are not phased by it at all.
 

Dill

Registered User
Feb 26, 2011
355
0
England
Hi Sonia
I experienced a similiar upsetting episode when my Dad was in hospital.
I had my sister to talk to, but I tell you, to have an understanding friend who knows what dementia can do to loved ones is such a relief. Just to talk it out helps so much.
You gave her a hug and listened, a true friend.
Dill
 

blightygirl

Registered User
Apr 16, 2012
35
0
Its shocking, but totally normal for some I guess? My grandma stopped using the toilet when she lived with us, instead she squatted next to it, and then picked it up... and well, I dont want to write the rest. She never wanted help for the toilet, and would get quite cross if mum offered, and sadly this was the deciding factor of her going into a home - my mum couldnt cope anymore. I hope your friend will feel less shocked if she hears of others doing this, and big hugs to her.
 

Jackcat

Registered User
Jan 30, 2010
133
0
London
Just to add to the stories so she knows it is not unusual - my Mum often misses the loo, messes on the floor, treads in it, pulls it out of the loo, puts toilet paper in her knickers, the list goes on and on. It is indeed very distressing - and stomach-churning - at first, but I tell myself it is like dealing with a child, one who can't be toilet-trained as they get older, because their brain is getting more infantile. A sense of humour, wet wipes and disposable gloves are the answer! On my last visit, I realised one of the other residents had squatted and left a very smelly pile in the hallway, the staff were busy with feeding everyone Supper, so I cleared it up for them, seemed much the quickest and least embarrassing thing to do, and they do same for Mum when I'm not there I'm sure, so it was nice to return the favor!
 

Billie61

Registered User
Mar 15, 2012
71
0
It is so reassuring to be able to post absolutely anything on this site and know that someone somewhere is going through a similar situation.

MIL seems to have lost her common sense where hygiene is concerned. I have to frequently disinfect, especially if there is poo in the cloakroom sink:(

Last night she was eating toilet paper. I just hope it was straight from the clean roll....:eek::eek:
Sorry if anyone reading this has a sensitive disposition.
 

Witzend

Registered User
Aug 29, 2007
4,283
0
SW London
It is so reassuring to be able to post absolutely anything on this site and know that someone somewhere is going through a similar situation.

MIL seems to have lost her common sense where hygiene is concerned. I have to frequently disinfect, especially if there is poo in the cloakroom sink:(

Last night she was eating toilet paper. I just hope it was straight from the clean roll....:eek::eek:
Sorry if anyone reading this has a sensitive disposition.

Well, here goes, then - nowadays my mother will often delve into her knickers and pull out a little nugget - ooh, look! She doesn't even seem to know what it is, let alone that her hands now need a good wash.

I feel a bit bad even posting this, but since nobody on here has a clue who she is, or was...
 

Carolynlott

Registered User
Jan 1, 2007
232
0
Newcastle upon Tyne
Sonia, thanks for starting this post - I feel better knowing My Mum isn't the only one! She started to do things similar to the ones described here when she went into her first care home - I felt dreadfully embarrassed, but the staff were great and said they had seen it all before. Even before that she had started putting used loo paper in the kitchen bin, or leaving it on the floor - when I questionned her about it she said she didn't know where it was supposed to go.
C
 

tre

Registered User
Sep 23, 2008
1,352
0
Herts
I agree thank you for starting this post. My husband is not at this stage but needs full assistance with using the loo. His last MMSE score was 5. He is continent and does ask to use the toilet when needed but cannot now find his way there even though he could do this time last year. Even when he could find his way he started last year forgetting where to put the toilet paper and I would find it on the floor or in the sink. Sometimes he forgot about using it altogether. Now he needs to be taken to the toilet, prompted to take down his trousers and pants and then sit on the loo, told it is OK to go, and then after he needs his bum wiped for him. then prompting to pull up his pants and trousers, prompting to roll up his sleeves for hand washing. Tap needs to be on and his hands guided under it, then he will lather if given the soap and then I need to take the soap from him, prompt him to rinse his hands, pass him the towel and switch off tap for him. Then I need to flush loo and prompt him to pull his sleeves back down. With this procedure he manages fine but he needs someone with him 24/7. I feel sure if he was left with carers coming in at intervals he would already be incontinent.
A couple of weeks ago he started his second day at Day Care and came home with his pants and trousers in a bag and wearing spare stuff. Apparently a carer who had not realised what was needed took him to the loo and asked him whether he was OK standing up to which he answered that he was. He asked her if he could use the toilet now to which she affirmed he was in the right place so he just weed as he was standing in his clothes. They were very apologetic and it has not happened since but it has made me realise how close to the edge we are. Luckily, although I would have thought he would have been mortified by wetting himself he does not seem to recall it.
Tre
 

Witzend

Registered User
Aug 29, 2007
4,283
0
SW London
Luckily, although I would have thought he would have been mortified by wetting himself he does not seem to recall it.
Tre

This is one of the 'blessings', isn't it, in that people who would have been utterly mortified aren't bothered any more.
Very hard to find blessings in dementia, but this is the one I'm so often grateful for - I'm sure my mother's former self would literally have died of embarrassment.
 

TinaT

Registered User
Sep 27, 2006
7,097
0
Costa Blanca Spain
The first few times this type of thing happens it is shocking and upsetting, especially if the person is living at home and you are alone cleaning up the mess. I remember being in this position myself before my husband went into permanet care.

Like everything else in dementia, what was the 'norm' is no longer. It is surprising what carers do get used to and accept. I am so grateful to the carers who do the 'personal care' of my husband, day in and day out without ever a grumble or expression of surprise. They are saints, real saints! I know it was the most distressing thing for me to cope with when I had full, sole care of my husband.

If we think of such things from the perspective of the dementia person, confused, not understanding instructions, where they are, or what they are doing, it is hardly suprising that such things happen and when they do, the dementia sufferer's idea of putting things right just leads to even more mess and upset.

xxTinaT
 

Mun

Registered User
Mar 19, 2012
294
0
South Yorkshire
My dad regularly wees on the bathroom floor !!!!!! (as well as hands down loo when he's had a poo) :eek::eek:
There....I've written it,been wanting to for weeks.
Please don't be offended by this,but I've got a big grin on my face writing it,cos I get the impression that this thread has been very cathartic for many,not least for me.
Last question,how to prevent wooden floor boards in bathroom from rotting after being constantly attacked by ammonia :eek: I have vision of floor giving way one day & dad ending up in dining room !!!
Val
 

Carolynlott

Registered User
Jan 1, 2007
232
0
Newcastle upon Tyne
Yep, that’s a good one. I well remember ripping up the carpet from my Mum and Dad’s bathroom (who has carpet in a bathroom?) a few years ago with a scarf tied round my face because of the smell. Luckily they didn’t notice/realise. I laid some vinyl flooring down, but then we had the whole bathroom replaced and had ceramic tiles put down.

I arrived at Mum and Dad’s care home this week to find each one being “changed” – they are both now doubly incontinent. So no chances of accidents now.

C