Alzheimer's Collateral Damage

[winda]

Hi Michael,

Thank you for posting this. As someone who is in the position of caring for my husband (at home at the moment) but know that I will use a care home eventually, I am very worried about finances as we too will be self-funding.

Some of our savings are in joint names, whilst others are not, but we have always had a joint current account. I suppose all of this will have to change. It is worrying how to keep records. I agree that we should have guidance on this as someone has already said.

It makes you wish that you had spent your money instead of saving for your old age.

Something you said about what would happen if you sold your home made me think. Our house is owned by my husband (second marriage), but he has written a will saying that I can live here as long as I wish or I can sell and buy somewhere else if I wished. We did this to protect his children's inheritance as I am some years younger than my husband.
Does this mean that I wouldn't be able to sell the house to move if I wanted to? I expect all of the money from the house could be used for his care? This hadn't occurred to me until I read your thread.

What a minefield all of this is!

 

[handyjack]

Just a thought about Social Services (whilst on the subject of money). Around ten years ago, my daughter was having psychiatric problems and was placed in a mental unit for about 4 months. Social Services approached me and my wife about caring for our 4 grandchildren. We initially said yes we'd be happy to have them (even though living accommodation would be cramped). My wife arranged her shifts around school times and had to work around half the hours she usually worked. I worked regular days , so couldn't arrange to work at any other time. After a month, we approached Social Services for help with costs,(even the Family Alllowance would have made a big difference) only to be told, as relatives, we weren't entitled to anything at all. By the end of the second month, we were actually putting ourselves in the position of losing the house we were buying and approached them again. The result?
Our grandchildren were taken into care and placed with foster parents (who received a handsome remuneration for their trouble) We didn't even ask for a fraction of the costs of foster care, but felt we were virtually accused of trying to "Fleece the system" so to speak. So I can well sympathise with anyone who has problems with Social Services.

 

[Kathphlox]

That's appalling handyjack.. and wrong in every way you look at it, you can't dress it up any other way.. you were the ones beeing fleeced

 

[Delphie]

Just a thought about Social Services (whilst on the subject of money). Around ten years ago, my daughter was having psychiatric problems and was placed in a mental unit for about 4 months. Social Services approached me and my wife about caring for our 4 grandchildren. We initially said yes we'd be happy to have them (even though living accommodation would be cramped). My wife arranged her shifts around school times and had to work around half the hours she usually worked. I worked regular days , so couldn't arrange to work at any other time. After a month, we approached Social Services for help with costs,(even the Family Alllowance would have made a big difference) only to be told, as relatives, we weren't entitled to anything at all. By the end of the second month, we were actually putting ourselves in the position of losing the house we were buying and approached them again. The result?
Our grandchildren were taken into care and placed with foster parents (who received a handsome remuneration for their trouble) We didn't even ask for a fraction of the costs of foster care, but felt we were virtually accused of trying to "Fleece the system" so to speak. So I can well sympathise with anyone who has problems with Social Services.

It's crazy, isnt it. Children end up in care instead of with family, and the state ends up paying out.

I'd love for the people who put these systems in place to explain why this is a good idea.

 

[Chemmy]

Handyjack, That's the sort of story that needs to be brought to the attention of MPs and Ministers.

Madness.

I'm just trying to think through (as Devil's advocate) the implication of paying family to care for, say, elderly parents, which sounds like a very sensible suggestion.

I can see it working if the parent's money was used to pay a family carer, but could it work for a spouse caring for a partner? I suppose if the assets were split 50:50 and then the carer paid from the spouse's share that might work. Could it be open to abuse though, unless regulated somehow?

 

[handyjack]

Chemmy, reading loads of posts on this forum, it seems that far too often , it is family who become carers,(more so in the first few years of Dementia) with very little support from Social Services, or govt departments.

I can see it working if the parent's money was used to pay a family carer, but could it work for a spouse caring for a partner? I suppose if the assets were split 50:50 and then the carer paid from the spouse's share that might work. Could it be open to abuse though, unless regulated somehow?

Hmm, I could foresee problems with that Chemmy, What about an elderly couple who both own the house they live in ? (or even a younger couple still paying a mortgage ?) In the case of the elderly couple, how could half of the assets (the house and any savings) be released to help the spouse, who's responsible for the care?
What happens later on when the spouse realises that a CH is the only reasonable way forward?
Would the authorities insist on the house being sold and the spouse moving in to social housing?


Of course any system is open to abuse and it would have to be regulated, but by whom? I certainly wouldn't trust the government to regulate an oven on gas mark 4 , far less anything to do with care.

 

[Chemmy]

Oh, I agree, it's fraught with problems. Probably why it's not been done.

 

[winda]

This is dreadful Handyjack, how on earth can children be better off with complete strangers when there are caring grandparents prepared to take over their care.

None of it makes any sense.

 

[Michael E]

What happens later on when the spouse realises that a CH is the only reasonable way forward?
Would the authorities insist on the house being sold and the spouse moving in to social housing?
QUOTE]

I am no lawyer but I think so long as you live in the house there is no problem. When you die half the value of the house will be available to the authorities to re-coup care home fees paid out. The big problem comes if you sell the house. If you do that then you only can use half to buy something else with. The other half must be made available for care home fees.

 

[Michael E]

Hi Michael,

Something you said about what would happen if you sold your home made me think. Our house is owned by my husband (second marriage), but he has written a will saying that I can live here as long as I wish or I can sell and buy somewhere else if I wished. We did this to protect his children's inheritance as I am some years younger than my husband.
Does this mean that I wouldn't be able to sell the house to move if I wanted to? I expect all of the money from the house could be used for his care? This hadn't occurred to me until I read your thread.

What a minefield all of this is!

I am not sure that wills mean anything to the court of protection - certainly not in my case. I suspect that the 'authorities' cannot turn you out of your home. Your problem would be if you ever sold the home to move 'on'. In that case you would almost certainly loose the lot. The children will loose whatever care home fees have been paid by the state up to the total value of the house and the estate. I suspect you must never move or you will not have a home.