Sectioned and CHC

[melbee]

Hi all,

Good wishes to all for 2012...... lets hope its going to be a better one!!!!!!!

We had mtg end Nov 2011 for CHC assess (2nd attempt) and awaiting outcome as its gone to Panel..............
Told social worker Mum was originally sectioned to hospital. Big ooos and rrrs they didnt know about this, and said they would find out. I have tried to find out too and at what level, and if this makes any difference as Mum has been self funding, but hospital wont divulge info to me.
I want and feel I have right to know as I was the one who phoned the ambulance originally as in a desparate situation and my Mum never came home. Is the social worker at liberty to tell me???? Oh and she is out of office until Friday.

Any help or advice appreciated

thanks Mel

PS* Mum wasnt nursing care then, but she is now..........

 

[Nebiroth]

Being sectioned can have a big impact on funding. It depends on your mum's status on discharge.

If she was discharged as normal, then she would be subject to the usual assessment procedure.

If however, she was discharged under a Section 117 then she would be entitled to have all care paid for by the NHS.

A section 117 is basically a continuation of a section 3 but the patient is no longer resident in an actual hospital - but they are funded as though they effectively were because they remain an NHS patient. And the NHS funds all such care.

Section 117 is usually applied when the patient remains in a condition that would usually mandate treatment in a hospital, but for whom an actual hospital bed offers no further advantage. It would therefore usually apply to someone with a severe mental condition whose symptoms are such that they would normally stay in a hospital, but for whom an actual hospital can do nothing further in the way of treatment. For such patients residential care in a suitable facility is more appropriate, but they remain under NHS care, therefore, the NHS funds it. And indeed, usually such care costs the NHS less than an actual bed on a ward, furthermore, a patient on a ward effectively bed-blocks, possibly stopping admissions for other critical patients.

This is probably why the social worker went off to investigate the circumstances of your mum's admission and current status

I wouldn;t get your hopes high though. Section 117 is uncommon. I suspect the NHS resists it due to the cost, preferring to offload onto the local authority.

 

[melbee]

Thanks for your answer Nebiroth................
I have been contacted today by lady from CHC dept because I said that Mum had been sectioned prior to her go into her home. Although this is not her domain she called the hospital involved and was told Mum was an informal case. They have no recards of her being a 3 or 117. So I am beginning a paper trail
For what I can remember I phoned 999 on the instructions of the then S/W as Mum was at risk of harming herself or us (including my 4 yr old daughter) and told they would know exactely what to do............. I was so distaught and in such a state, but followed on and remember Mum being seen by many different doctors/consultants from within and outside the hospital, and her being taken to a secure unit, where she was treated for 2 months including medication.
How can I find out (with POA find out). What Im trying to say is that under no circumstances did Mum go of her own free will, and she never came back home from there, but to a care home.
I cannot understand them saying the records are informal.......
Sorry if this sounds a bit disjointed but I feel as there is or MAYBE a coverup......

 

[Nebiroth]

The original section and circumstances should, must, be a matter of formal record. Depriving someone of their liberty using the Mental Health Act is never done lightly

Most people are sectioned under a section 2. This is "initial assessment" and lasts for a maximum of 28 days, but it can be extended to a section 3, which lasts up to six months and is renewable.

Normally, a section 2 requires two independent doctors and an approved social worker to all agree to it. The social worker "makes application", the two doctors sanction it. The application may also be made by the person's "nearest relative" but the social worker is always preferred. There are additonal requirements in that one of the doctors should be acquainted with the patient and at least one of them must be "section 12" approved

In an emergency it is possible to waive some of these requirements, and it may be necessary to utilise a section 4. The police have powers to remove a "mentally disordered" person toa "place of safety" from a public place but require a magistrates order to enter someone's home and remove them. These powers, espescially section 4, are rare, not least because it puts the responsibility almost entirely upon one person as decision maker

If someone is sectioned then it is never an informal arrangement due to the gravity of depriving liberty

I am wondering if a sectioning was considered but it was eventually possible to convince your mum to admit voluntarily.

There are further sections that could be applied if she did so but then wished to leavem section 5 can prevent someone from leaving hospital for a period of 72 hours and can be ordered by clinicians and some levels of senior nurse