I need some held and advise

sherriem

Registered User
Nov 22, 2010
9
0
Good morning,

I wonder if you could help My mums been taken into a carehome for her saftey. She's got vascular frontal temporal mixed dementia. I am finding it very hard to come to terms with her not being at home. I go and see her most days, My mums been in the home for 5 weeks on monday. Mums not settling very well although the staff say this can take some time. Feeling very guilty and upset. I also have another problem well several mum was placed in the home by the memory clinic and the care manager, I was informed i had 24 hrs to decide about the home as places for emi dont come up often, nothing was mentioned about how much the home charges. I am now been pressured for top up charges, on top of that they are now saying my mum should be self funding due to owning the bungalow. I sold my flat in london 16 yrs ago to look after my mum when my dad died due to her depression. Just feel like everything against me want to just run away. I have booked an appointment with the family solicitor for some help but just feel everything getting on top off me.
 

lin1

Registered User
Jan 14, 2010
9,350
0
East Kent
Hello Sherriem
Im putting a link to a thread on here about top up payments, which I hope you find helpful,
Basically it says dont agree to pay top ups
http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/show...ed-into-paying-a-care-home-top-up-please-read.
on top of that they are now saying my mum should be self funding due to owning the bungalow. I sold my flat in london 16 yrs ago to look after my mum when my dad died due to her depression. Just feel like everything against me want to just run away. I have booked an appointment with the family solicitor for some help but just feel everything getting on top off me.

I wish I could help with this , I do know their are regs/ guidance on this but I am not sure of the details but I know others on TP do
and hopefully will be along soon, what I do know is that their are some circumstances when thy cant make a carer move out and sell up mums home,
they can put a lien ? on it, and dont necessarily believe what the SW tells you they can and do get their facts wrong

hang on in there dont let them beat you down.
 

Jo1958

Registered User
Mar 31, 2010
3,724
0
Yorkshire
Sherriem, hello
I am so sorry that you are in situation, what a lot of worries all coming at once. I hope your mum does settle and you find some peace when you know that she is being well cared for and are happy with the home.

I can't help with the property problem but as lin1 said there are others on here who know the law on this, I hope they will be along later.

Sending you my support and a (((Hug))) in the hope that it helps, I look forward to hearing how things go.
With best wishes from Jo
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
There are a couple of things to bear in mind here. Actually probably more than a couple.

Do you mind me asking how old you are? Well you don't have to tell me, but if you are in fact over 60, then the property is automatically disregarded.

Also, as Sues51 indicates, as you gave up your own home then the LA has the discretion to disregard the property. CRAG (charging for residential accomodation guide has this to say about this)

Discretion to disregard property
7.011
Where the LA considers it reasonable to do so, they can disregard the value of premises not covered in paragraphs 7.002 to 7.008 in which a third party lives. LAs will have to balance the use of this discretion with the need to ensure that residents with assets are not maintained at public expense. It may be reasonable, for example, to disregard a dwelling's value where it is the sole residence of someone who has given up their own home in order to care for the resident, or someone who is an elderly companion of the resident particularly if they have given up their own home. These are only examples and not exhaustive. Schedule 4 paragraph 18

7.012
As with issues of deprivation, LA’s should consider the intention behind the occupation of the premises by the third party (e.g. whether it was to care for the resident or whether it was in anticipation of avoiding the inclusion of the property in the financial assessment). It would only be reasonable to disregard the property in the first example. The timing of the move into the property by the third party and the prognosis of the resident at that time will also be relevant.

Example
A close friend gives up their own home to care for the resident at a time when residential care cannot be anticipated. This would be reasonable circumstances for the LA to give consideration to the exercise of discretion.

7.013
Where the LA has decided to disregard the value of a property, it is left to the LA to decide if and when to review that decision. It would be reasonable, for example, where the LA has been ignoring the value of a property because a long term carer was living there, for the LA to begin taking account of the value of the property when the carer dies or moves out.

Or course it would be far better if this was not discretionary but it's important you are not bullied about this.

The other thing I wanted to mention is the top-up issue. Top-ups should only be required when you have requested what I think of as cosmetic improvements: a room with a better view, a more expensive home due to the decor etc. If the only home who can fulfill her assessed needs is a £1000 a week more than the amount that the LA normally pays, then the LA have to pay.

There's a fact sheet here http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=125
 

sherriem

Registered User
Nov 22, 2010
9
0
need some advise

Thank you all for your information and support. I went to my solicitor yesterday and he thinks I have a good case due to the fact that I put my money into the house ie myflat proceeds. He will also deal with the care manager regarding the top up payments. She should not have been asking me to access my mum bank acct due to the fact I dont have poa or court of protection applied for that yesterday. Feel a little bit easier but dont count you chickens till they attach comes to mind. Also my Mums not settling very well refusing to eat lost nearly 1 stone in weight. May be it would be easier to just bring her home and give up work. Thak yu all again for your support.:rolleyes:
 

beena

Registered User
May 28, 2010
75
0
Cheshire
Hello Sherrie M
(I can't offer any practical advice on the financial front but) wanted to say I KNOW how you're feeling on the personal front. My mum (also has Vascular Dementia) has been in a CH for about the same time as your mum: like yours, my Mum has also lost a lot of weight in that time... and isn't it frightening? A GP who was called to see her said this frequently happens (?), but it certainly doesn't make it any easier to come to terms with, does it? Is this the case or do we go into panic? I really don't know... I have to believe the medics say it as it is (i have no medical training or knowledge) but it doesn't make life any easier.
Thinking of you: seems we're in the same place... not one of ideal, but practical, choice
 

lonelyson

Registered User
Jun 27, 2011
38
0
Hull
housing

Sorry to hear about your mum not settling and all the other aggro your being thrown. i had a meeting with adult care yesterday and the lien against the house was mentioned. I got on the net and on the direct gov site there was an area talking about residential fees and what could be assessed as assets. If you are over 60 and living there the house is exempt as long as you live in it. There is also some discretion for the local authority regarding the carer having been living in the house. I put a post up yesterday and this was confirmed by other ccontributors. The advice to L.A.'s runs to 120 pages! So I would hesitate to think that there are many sw's who are experts. Hope your mum settles and you get the top up fees sorted. That'smy next challenge as I'm being told that there is a £140 top up for respite care while we sort out a new and enhanced care plan. Stay strong and as someone said to me earlier on this site. Think really hard before you agree to anything, especially fees.
 

lonelyson

Registered User
Jun 27, 2011
38
0
Hull
links

Forgot to put this in it is the first page I found with info whichis the same as the directgov site.
http:/www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/health-and-well-being
Hope this helps:)
 

Nebiroth

Registered User
Aug 20, 2006
3,510
0
Jennifer has, as always, given excellent advice.

From what you say, it sounds as though you sold your flat and moved into your mum's house to look after her, and used the proceeds towards either the upkeep of the house, modifications to it, or general bills?

If this is the case then the Local Authority have discretionary powers to disregard mum's house as an asset - the rules state that they may disregard if someone has given up their own home to move in as carer. This isn't as good as the protection offered to, for example, spouses or relatives aged 60+ .. in that case the disregard is automatic.

However, it does sound as though you have a good case to make; don't let the authority ride roughshod over you or tell you that they have no choice but to force the sale of the house: it isn't true. At the end of the day, it's in their own interests (and their duty of care) not to render someone homeless, since you then become an emergency priority for social housing, possibly you'd have to be placed in temporary accomodation - at their expense.

Also, they can't oblige anyone to pay so called "top up fees". What matters is your mum's needs - if her needs require placing in a home that has the right facilities but charges more than their (so called) maximum rates then the authority has to pay up.

And under no circumstances whatever can a relative (or anyone else) be obliged to pay towards any part of your mum's fees - the only things that can be used are her assets and no-one elses. Sadly, LA's are not above implying that they can't pay higher fees or that relatives must pay up - again, neither of these is true but sometimes you have to make them aware that you know this! Certainly don't feel pressured into signing anything - always read through documents carefuly and be prepared to take legal advice on it and refuse to sign until you have.
 
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Nebiroth

Registered User
Aug 20, 2006
3,510
0
She should not have been asking me to access my mum bank acct due to the fact I dont have poa or court of protection applied for that yesterday.

This is correct. Without a POA via a registered EPA/LPA document previously created when you mum was well, or deputyship awarded by the Court of Protection, then you have no legal access to your mum's accounts (or anything else). Being the "nearest relative" (what used to be called "next of kin" which is, generally speaking spouse followed by children in order of age, eldest first) is irrelevent.

If your mum hasn't arranged for an EPA/LPA then application has to be made to the CoP. This can be complex, time consuming and expensive. You are under no obligation to do this or to manage your mum's affairs. If it is necessary then the Local Authority can itself apply for deputyship - a common arrangement, particularly for people who have no family.
 

sherriem

Registered User
Nov 22, 2010
9
0
I Need hel and advise

Good morning,

Thank you all for your advise, the sw not been intouch at all this week my solicitor advised not to speak to her he will deal. Feel a little bit happier but still worried about my mum, she fel:confused:l on Tuesday afternoon the bruising just coming out now. She's still not happy in the home, is this why she's not eating if so do I have the right to place her in a home to keep her safe and make her life hell. Or should I give up work and bring her home and look after my mum. She could'nt wander if I was there.
 

Bob S

Registered User
Mar 24, 2009
392
0
Welwyn Garden City
Sherrie,

You have been given some good advise here with regards to the property, but what is the situation with regards to an assessment by the NHS to see if your mother qualifies for fully funded NHS continuing care? Has this been mentioned at all? I'm assuming you are in England or Wales but please correct me if I have assumed wrongly.
 

sherriem

Registered User
Nov 22, 2010
9
0
BoB S

Yes I live in kent nobody said anythng about this. My mums got vascular frontal temporal lobe and mixed dementia according to the professionals. We have not seen any careplan that's been put in place by the sw or the home. It seems everything been rushed to get my mum in this home and now they are all trying to catch up and cover their tracks
 

Bob S

Registered User
Mar 24, 2009
392
0
Welwyn Garden City
Sherrie,

That sadly sounds typical of how things are done. If your mother's needs are primary health needs then the NHS are responsible for the full cost of any package of care. They should be carrying out a proper assessment (via the local NHS Primary Care Trust) and this should have been explained to you. But too often they assume someone will be passed straight to social services and if they suspect there is money or properties then they won't care too much about doing things properly.

If you are not aware take a look at the NHS National Famework:-

http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_103161.pdf

Also take a look at the Decision Support Tool (DST)

http://www.salford-pct.nhs.uk/documents/ContinuingHealthcare/DecisionMakingTool.pdf

Have a read and it may give you some insight into what could be the true situation with your mother.
 

cragmaid

Registered User
Oct 18, 2010
7,936
0
North East England
She could'nt wander if I was there.
do not bet on it..... even if you gave up work and life to care at home with Mum, you still could not stop her if she wanted to go... she'd wait till you went to the loo or were on the phone!!:D
There ought to be an assessment after a few weeks of her placement, but if you are really concerned about Mum's weight, have a word with Mum's GP.
By the way, I firmly believe that after 16 years it could never be proved that you were depriving Mum of assets.:).