Hi Jennifer
Halifax say is it because it is "registered with Court of Protection". What does this mean?
Online Banking
- Thread starter morrisons2006
- Start date
Hi Jennifer
Halifax say is it because it is "registered with Court of Protection". What does this mean?
Sorry you thought it was "odd and personal" Jancis. I was just pointing out that hearsay, is just that, hearsay. Do feel free to disagree - we all are entitled to an opinion, even moderators.
I just feel when dealing with any institutions (financial or otherwise) you need information in writing, and a phone call doesn't cut it. If they're prepared to send to a confirmation by mail (or email) fine, but if not then the information is worth about as much as the paper it (isn't) written on when it comes to giving you a stronger hand, and giving people a stronger hand is what this whole thing is about.
And then overridden as stated in this thread http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/show...nts-do-you-get-with-lasting-power-of-attorney
With Lloyds when you register the power you have to visit a branch a second time to set up internet/phone access.
Morrisons: well what this "should" mean is that the EPA has been registered with the COP and has been shown to be valid. In fact, if it hasn't been registered it "technically" isn't an EPA - it's an instrument to create an EPA.
Having said that, I assume you also saw this http://www.halifax.co.uk/HelpCentre/poa.asp
"As an appointed representative, you may be able to manage your appointed accounts online (excludes Court of Protection registered customers or those acting on their behalf)."
I have to say, on that basis, I and JPG1's "Dave" was incorrect (at least as far as Halifax's stated policies) - if you are using any form of registered EPA/LPA online banking is not an option at Halifax.
Their PDf brochure also says (in teeny, tiny letters) at the bottom of Page 7.
†The Online Banking service is not available for Court of Protection registered customers or those acting on their behalf e.g. a loss of mental capacity.
My feeling is that you can continue to try and fight this or you can do what other people do - find a bank who are happy to have your custom. I feel Halifax are incorrect, but being a carer is hard enough without this sort of thing.
P.S. Cross Posted with Nitram: exactly
Having said that, I assume you also saw this http://www.halifax.co.uk/HelpCentre/poa.asp
"As an appointed representative, you may be able to manage your appointed accounts online (excludes Court of Protection registered customers or those acting on their behalf)."
I have to say, on that basis, I and JPG1's "Dave" was incorrect (at least as far as Halifax's stated policies) - if you are using any form of registered EPA/LPA online banking is not an option at Halifax.
Their PDf brochure also says (in teeny, tiny letters) at the bottom of Page 7.
†The Online Banking service is not available for Court of Protection registered customers or those acting on their behalf e.g. a loss of mental capacity.
My feeling is that you can continue to try and fight this or you can do what other people do - find a bank who are happy to have your custom. I feel Halifax are incorrect, but being a carer is hard enough without this sort of thing.
P.S. Cross Posted with Nitram: exactly
Hi Jennifer
Yes I have now read Halifax PDF brochure at the bottom of Page 7. This is ridiculous !!!
Thanks for your help Jennifer.
Morrisons
Hi In sorry to hear your having such problems
I cant offer any helpful advice
I am a little confused I thought EPA's LPA's were registered at the OPG
(office of public guardian) not the COP
I do hope you get this sorted soon, to me it seems totally ridiculous that
a person holding a legally registered EPA/LPA, is prevented to use online banking,to prevent fraud, yet can sign cheques use bank cards ect
or am I being a bit dim
I cant offer any helpful advice
I am a little confused I thought EPA's LPA's were registered at the OPG
(office of public guardian) not the COP
I do hope you get this sorted soon, to me it seems totally ridiculous that
a person holding a legally registered EPA/LPA, is prevented to use online banking,to prevent fraud, yet can sign cheques use bank cards ect
or am I being a bit dim
Hey lin: No not dim at all - it of course makes no sense, and it has to be discriminatory I would think.
I have just spent more than another 30 minutes on the phone to various people, and I don't think it was futile at all.
1. The latest information I have to offer - from the Halifax's Power of Attorney Department - is as follows:
A Court of Protection appointed Deputy is the only person who would be refused online banking.
An Attorney with EPA or LPA registered with the Office of the Public Guardian (OPG) would and should be granted online banking access, regardless of whether or not dementia or any other mental incapacity is in the frame.
The Halifax person has agreed to put into writing (within 7-10 days of receipt of my letter, which won't be sent until tomorrow at the earliest) a fully reasoned explanation of the way in which online banking access should be made available to holders of registered-with-the-OPG EPAs or LPAs even for customers with dementia.
2. The latest information I have to offer from the OPG itself:
The Banks often talk a load of ^&££$&£s!
It is a confusion between the use of the terms COP and OPG (and I notice that confusion also arises on TP), and the use of the term 'registered'.
The COP would not be involved in a straightforward Power of Attorney.
The OPG would be involved. It is the OPG that stamps the seal of approval on EPA/LPA - not the Court of Protection.
The OPG and the Halifax both agreed that the line at the bottom of page 7 of the Halifax's pdf brochure is misleading - and it is misleading staff in branches. It should read "Court of Protection appointed Deputy".
A registered and perfectly valid EPA/LPA is nothing to do with the Court of Protection, per se, unless there are problems that later emerge. for example abuse by the attorney resulting in the revocation of that power and the appointment of a Deputy to manage financial affairs.
So my mission is almost accomplished; I will ask the Halifax for permission to print in full the content of their reply to me.
PS. My Dave was right after all. Thanks Dave!
PPS. You're right Lin1.
1. The latest information I have to offer - from the Halifax's Power of Attorney Department - is as follows:
A Court of Protection appointed Deputy is the only person who would be refused online banking.
An Attorney with EPA or LPA registered with the Office of the Public Guardian (OPG) would and should be granted online banking access, regardless of whether or not dementia or any other mental incapacity is in the frame.
The Halifax person has agreed to put into writing (within 7-10 days of receipt of my letter, which won't be sent until tomorrow at the earliest) a fully reasoned explanation of the way in which online banking access should be made available to holders of registered-with-the-OPG EPAs or LPAs even for customers with dementia.
2. The latest information I have to offer from the OPG itself:
The Banks often talk a load of ^&££$&£s!
It is a confusion between the use of the terms COP and OPG (and I notice that confusion also arises on TP), and the use of the term 'registered'.
The COP would not be involved in a straightforward Power of Attorney.
The OPG would be involved. It is the OPG that stamps the seal of approval on EPA/LPA - not the Court of Protection.
The OPG and the Halifax both agreed that the line at the bottom of page 7 of the Halifax's pdf brochure is misleading - and it is misleading staff in branches. It should read "Court of Protection appointed Deputy".
A registered and perfectly valid EPA/LPA is nothing to do with the Court of Protection, per se, unless there are problems that later emerge. for example abuse by the attorney resulting in the revocation of that power and the appointment of a Deputy to manage financial affairs.
So my mission is almost accomplished; I will ask the Halifax for permission to print in full the content of their reply to me.
PS. My Dave was right after all. Thanks Dave!
PPS. You're right Lin1.
Oh good JPG1 - I'm glad you're taking my advice and getting it in writing. I do think that's the only way to give more power people struggling with this.
It's nothing to do with you, Jennifer, nothing whatsoever.
You must surely know that I've always advocated that people should get everything in writing!!! And that includes a load of the £$%%^&~~~"s spoken by SWs too, let alone Directors of Mental Health Care of Older People teams, and ... ... and so on.
You must surely know that I've always advocated that people should get everything in writing!!! And that includes a load of the £$%%^&~~~"s spoken by SWs too, let alone Directors of Mental Health Care of Older People teams, and ... ... and so on.
Thanks JPG1
I was wondering if it was something like that that was causing some of the problems, Although I have no legal experience I dont see why a COP appointed deputy who is a FAMILY MEMBER should not have access to Internet banking to manage the persons accounts, bills ect, though their is probably a good reason that im unaware of.
Yes Jennifer I do believe there is discrimination, It also pains me to read that people have to fight so hard for whatever reason
sufferers and carers alike have enough problems without jobsworths adding to them
I was wondering if it was something like that that was causing some of the problems, Although I have no legal experience I dont see why a COP appointed deputy who is a FAMILY MEMBER should not have access to Internet banking to manage the persons accounts, bills ect, though their is probably a good reason that im unaware of.
Yes Jennifer I do believe there is discrimination, It also pains me to read that people have to fight so hard for whatever reason
sufferers and carers alike have enough problems without jobsworths adding to them
Hi, my OH has deputyship for his father's financial affairs, and does have an on line bank facility. Clearly there are some banks that will allow this and some that will not. He is able to request bank statement etc and is keeping clear accounts as we know they may be requested.
In my own opinion, perhaps it might be best to consider movng the funds from one bank to another who will be more helpful to you.
Best wishes
In my own opinion, perhaps it might be best to consider movng the funds from one bank to another who will be more helpful to you.
Best wishes
On line banking
I have spent around 18 months fighting for on line banking access to my husbands accounts without success. It is the software that will not allow it First Direct states and they simply recommend HSBC (they are partners) who can offer this service. I have shown them the discrimination act and much more, but they say they are not discriminating as they offer the service by phone which is correct, just not on line.
It is so annoying because First Direct is excellent for everything and their customer service is next to none according to which? too.
I still bank with them and have done from day one but it niggles me.
I have spent around 18 months fighting for on line banking access to my husbands accounts without success. It is the software that will not allow it First Direct states and they simply recommend HSBC (they are partners) who can offer this service. I have shown them the discrimination act and much more, but they say they are not discriminating as they offer the service by phone which is correct, just not on line.
It is so annoying because First Direct is excellent for everything and their customer service is next to none according to which? too.
I still bank with them and have done from day one but it niggles me.
Winnie - HSBC were the bunch who said I couldn't use online banking on behalf of my mother. That was some time ago though. Oh and there was a BS whose name escapes me who would let me have online access but not if I was overseas (which, of course, I was). Goodness knows what happens if you're away on holiday and want to access those sorts of accounts.
That was some time ago though. Oh and there was a BS whose name escapes me who would let me have online access but not if I was overseas (which, of course, I was). Goodness knows what happens if you're away on holiday and want to access those sorts of accounts.I've not had any problem with NatWest online banking for my aunt's accounts.
I also use online banking for her Barclays accounts, though the service at my local branch when registering the POA was very poor. I made a complaint about it and all is okay now.
I also use online banking for her Barclays accounts, though the service at my local branch when registering the POA was very poor. I made a complaint about it and all is okay now.
I also started online banking with the NatWest - long before LPAs were thought up, and based only on Third Party Access, which meant that I could have cleaned the account overnight legally - I didn't do so, and I can prove that I didn't do so before anyone asks.
That online access continued, even after LPAs were invented. No problems encountered from start to finish.
The NatWest knew then of the emerging and ever increasing dementia; it acknowledged and recognised my DWP Appointee status; it required a few forms to be signed by both of us .... and from that moment on, it worked according to a sensible plan. Bank statements were all sent to me; any questions I needed to ask about anything were answered without problems; and when the time came to question one or two 'strange but probably dementia-related transactions' they were dealt with in what used to be known as a symathetic fashion. Absolutely no hiccups whatsoever. So well done NatWest. And if the NatWest can do it, so can other banks. But it may just take a little bit of caring on their part.
A valid and approved-by-the-OPG attorneyship should not destroy such a simple and modern access to the banking system.
But then again, anyone who has a sub to Private Eye could do well to read page 27 of No. 1291, the 24 June to 7 July 2011 edition, and it will give a good precis of how much the banks (or rather, perhaps just the one mentioned in this edition) are involved in the financing of the care industry. In the best interests of the banks, that is.
Dear Mr Osorio
I am hoping you will be able (and willing) to clarify your banks policy on providing on-line accounts to attorneys appointed legally through the Office of the Public Guardian. I attach a link to a thread on the Alzheimer's Society forum where a member is having problems with obtaining such access from the Halifax (HBOS) on behalf of a family member for whom they are an attorney.
I know there are often problems with a lot of financial institutions in relation to the understanding and policy for Power of Attorney. I have POA for both my parents and am also a serving police officer so understand from both sides the possibility of abuse but as is pointed out in the forum this could just as easily occur during face to face/cash point transactions.
The dementia/Alzheimer's journey is a terribly hard one, anything that can offer clarity and ease the journey, even a little bit helps, my Dad has Alzheimers......
I do look forward to your comments and reply,
With regards
I have e-mailed the CEO of Lloyds TSB just now, I do hope to get a reply x
I am hoping you will be able (and willing) to clarify your banks policy on providing on-line accounts to attorneys appointed legally through the Office of the Public Guardian. I attach a link to a thread on the Alzheimer's Society forum where a member is having problems with obtaining such access from the Halifax (HBOS) on behalf of a family member for whom they are an attorney.
I know there are often problems with a lot of financial institutions in relation to the understanding and policy for Power of Attorney. I have POA for both my parents and am also a serving police officer so understand from both sides the possibility of abuse but as is pointed out in the forum this could just as easily occur during face to face/cash point transactions.
The dementia/Alzheimer's journey is a terribly hard one, anything that can offer clarity and ease the journey, even a little bit helps, my Dad has Alzheimers......
I do look forward to your comments and reply,
With regards
I have e-mailed the CEO of Lloyds TSB just now, I do hope to get a reply x
Echo Amy’s thanks. May I say, JPG1 – I am rather alarmed at some of the comments directed to you on this thread. (That’s for me to deal with!) They certainly made ME feel uncomfortable. Well done, for taking them with such good grace.
I very much appreciate what you have done/are doing. I no longer have a living relative I am CURRENTLY concerned about with these issues – but given my own previous issues around EPA – banks’ lack of comprehension around ‘registered’ (e.g. registered with them or by the OPG/COP etc) re-registered (with the bank) as registered (with OPG) ... it’s a minefield ...... and try to keep up my own ‘campaigning’ – let alone personal forward planning - to make it easier for others who may sadly have to follow in the same path.
I still chuckle (sort of) at some financial institutions’ sheer arrogance (it seems) that they seem to feel their ‘view’/procedures and systems restraints, even, override legal appointees and court-sealed documentation ...
Well done going that 'extra mile' for the OP and others,
Karen
) They certainly made ME feel uncomfortable. Well done, for taking them with such good grace.I very much appreciate what you have done/are doing. I no longer have a living relative I am CURRENTLY concerned about with these issues – but given my own previous issues around EPA – banks’ lack of comprehension around ‘registered’ (e.g. registered with them or by the OPG/COP etc) re-registered (with the bank) as registered (with OPG)
... it’s a minefield ...... and try to keep up my own ‘campaigning’ – let alone personal forward planning - to make it easier for others who may sadly have to follow in the same path.I still chuckle (sort of
) at some financial institutions’ sheer arrogance (it seems) that they seem to feel their ‘view’/procedures and systems restraints, even, override legal appointees and court-sealed documentation ...Well done going that 'extra mile' for the OP and others,
Karen
Hi
I hope you get a reply from the CEO of Lloyds TSB. It will be interesting to hear what they have to say about this absolutely ridiculous situation myself and many others are in!!!!
Morrisons 2006
