Conditions for seeing my father - who is the criminal here?

[Amy]

So where has the POVA investigaation come from? Am I right in thinking that you said SS had concerns for your parents welfare when your mum was alive? Were they having difficulty at home? Is your dad able to care for himself, cooking, shopping etc or would you be employing someone/living with him?
Amy

 

[Mr_Angry]

You yell me where the 2009 allegation come from as its news to me.

My parents looked after themselves very well and with my help for all their life. Home help was provided but it wasn't much use.

Resources exist should my father need them in his own home.

 

[JPG1]

Mr A, I'd check further into the reasons the CH are giving you for preventing you visiting your father, because if they are talking of POVA, then I've always understood the POVA scheme was only connected with a list of people who were not allowed to work in a 'professional' salaried/waged capacity and setting with vulnerable adults. But I didn't think it had anything to do with sons or daughters, or other normally harmless human beings.

The POVA then went the way of the vetting and barring scheme (which was called upon to try and prevent respected authors and playwrights and actors from going into schools, for example, unless they were registered on "A List". That went to the wall because of the massive protest from sensible people.) I think it then ended up as an ISA - Independent Safeguarding Authority. But I still think it only applies to workers - I may be misguided in my thinking there, so I'm quite prepared to stand corrected.

Are they perhaps meaning Safeguarding of Vulnerable Adults, or Adult Protection procedures? If the CH or SS don't know the difference, then how on earth should you be expected to?

 

[Mr_Angry]

Pova

I agree I have also read the POVA procedures and as far as I can tell it does not apply to relatives. As they have not said what legislation they are using to stop me I need to find out.

Again it highlights how SS work as they are fond of saying 'you are not party to that information' and any questions they don't wish to answer they ignore. A new SW has taken over the case again they refuse to give the reason why. I find my private sector clients respond reasonably to reasonable requests however the State sector hide behind read tape, misinformation or don't anwer what any reasonable person would consider 'normal' requests. Open government? more like the methods employed by the Stasi.

 

[Mr_Angry]

Held to ransom

As you may know I have had a hard time playing detective to track down my fathers so called IMCA. See http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?34909-Mr-Angry-is-MAD-as-it-would-appear-no-IMCA-is-in-place&highlight=mr_angry

I have now spoken to the IMCA who refused to say anything about my father other than that he is happy in the care home and has raised no complaints (now people who have listened to his recordings on his blog may have another view on that)
The IMCA's definition of their role is to make sure the terms of the DOL's are enforced, ie. Be a good boy, don't do anything that we term 'aggressive' do not record your fathers words, give us 3 days advance notice of visiting and only come when we say so and we will watch your every move when you are there. Break any of these rules and we call the police.

As they have never shown any evidence that I have been abusive towards my father it is my belief that the DOL's is put in place to prevent me speaking with my father. My father is on record as having stated he wishes me to bring legal action against social services. By preventing me from seeing him they can claim he lacks mental capacity to object to an IMCA and to start legal proceedings.

As I find it difficult to understand the role of an IMCA I am sure they haven't explained it in a way a 92 year old man can understand it.

It is now the case that the care home are trying to prevent me speaking to my father on the phone by conveniently not replacing his hearing aid batteries something I have complained about in the past before the CH manager decided to ban me for asking questions.

 

[Bob S]

From http://webarchive.nationalarchives....licy/mental-capacity/mibooklets/booklet06.pdf


What does an IMCA do?
An IMCA safeguards the rights of people who:
• are facing a decision about a long-term move or about serious medical treatment
• lack capacity to make a specified decision at the time it needs to be made
• have nobody else who is willing and able to represent them or be consulted in the process of working out their best interests, other than paid staff.
Regulations under the Mental Capacity Act give local authorities and NHS bodies powers to involve IMCAs in other decisions concerning:
• a care review
• adult protection procedures (even in situations where there may be family or friends to consult).
IMCAs are independent and will generally work for advocacy providers who are not part of a local authority or the NHS.

 

[Jancis]

Complaining to Adult Social Care

Mr A,
As you know I have been following your threads but I can't remember if you have made a formal complaint to your LA's Complaints Manager at Adult Social Care HQ? It's a long drawn out process which you may have already been through and if so, I'd be interested to know the outcome. If you haven't been down this track then do consider it as should rattle some cages. At any time as well you have the right to raise your complaint with the Local Govt Ombudsman.

Here is a quote from the leaflet I found which relates to my relative's LA:
Can I have someone support me when I make a complaint?
There is no need to feel alone if you complain, as someone can always support you who has experience in representing people's views (an advocate).
Adult Social Care can find an advocate for you, or you can ask for help from any voluntary agency.

Mr A, I know you are not naive and the above might make you smile so apologies if not relevant - it might help someone else reading this thread, however.

 

[geum123]

Mr. A,
I wonder if you could apply (as POW for your Dad) under the freedom of information act, for all records from care home, Ss, Dr. etc.
It is likely that some will be redacted, but you can usually read between the lines.

 

[JPG1]

Mr A,

Remember (but you are probably already aware of this, of course) that you cannot go to the LGO (Local Government Ombudsman) with your case until such time as you have 'exhausted' the LA's formal complaints procedure that Jancis mentions. And by the time you've 'exhausted' that procedure you will also be more than exhausted, because it can take several years, especially if you are dealing with a 'serious' complaint.

Then it can take another year or two for the LGO to 'manage' your complaint.

I think they all meanwhile cross their fingers, prolong any formal complaints procedure ad infinitum, hoping that you will recede gracefully into the background, and also - sadly - that your relative will no longer be on this earth.

It's so very easy for some people to intimate that it's all down to the way you smile and achieve a comfy cosy relationship' with your SW, the SS, the LA, the CH, et al. And that if you can't manage to reach that desirable situation, then it must be all 'down to you', but those who have had to walk that path, wearing the shoes that sometimes hurt enormously, know that it ain't always so simple.

An IMCA can be invited to comment on whether someone is being deprived of their liberty - but I'm not sure that it's the role of an IMCA to ensure that the DOLs procedures are being followed to the letter. That must surely be the function of whoever approved the DOL, in the first place. But I'll look into that further, another day.

However, a friend of mine has recently received a huge written apology via the Investigating officer who was investigating his formal complaint on behalf of the LA and on behalf of the PCT and the Foundation Trust and the Care Home - for having involved an IMCA totally inappropriately, without informing the family of the person in care and without 'valid reasons' and also without having made sufficient effort to arrange meetings to resolve the situation. So he's now back where he asked them all to be: talking, and trying to resolve the situation. But they all decided not to accept his invitation, and went their own sour way!

So these mistakes do happen, but you have to challenge them, in writing. Which is enormously tiresome and you will be more than tired of it all by the time you get to a resolution, in the best interests of your father.

 

[Mr_Angry]

Update

Yes made a formal complaint - ignored on the grounds of ongoing POVA.

Made a complaint to LGO returned saying I had not given LA time to respond returned by me showing I had so far complaint ignored.

Nasty letter to CEO social services - acknowledged waiting response.

Older people's commissioner - letter saying they were very concerned and suggesting I contact LGO then use FOI and DPA to seek info all of which I have done - ignored on the grounds of ongoing POVA.

Human Rights Commission - yet to try.

Give up - the hell I will.

A new audio file is on my fathers web site PM if you want the link.

If SS/CH continue to block me time to name people involved and location.

 

[Marianne]

Mr Angry
Have you thought about calling in your local spy shop or googling spycameras. You can even buy a spy camera in a watch, no wires with 1.5 hrs recording before the battery needs recharging, it isn't expensive less than £50.

I don't know if you ever saw a Panorama programme called "Please look after dad"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7104212.stm

the lady filmed her dad in a care home using a spy camera fitted in her handbag. I wish I had thought of doing this when my dad was in care.

 

[Bob S]

Older people's commissioner - letter saying they were very concerned and suggesting I contact LGO then use FOI and DPA to seek info all of which I have done - ignored on the grounds of ongoing POVA.

If the request for information under the Data Protection Act is made using section 35 then they cannot use the usual exemptions under section 29 to refuse to comply with your request.

 

[Bob S]

It's so very easy for some people to intimate that it's all down to the way you smile and achieve a comfy cosy relationship' with your SW, the SS, the LA, the CH, et al. And that if you can't manage to reach that desirable situation, then it must be all 'down to you', but those who have had to walk that path, wearing the shoes that sometimes hurt enormously, know that it ain't always so simple.

So true JPG, so very true. The trouble with so many of these so called professionals is that when you pitch up and demonstrate that you actually know something about how things should be done they will dig their heels in and try and bluster and shout you down, maintaining they are right and you are wrong. The chances of a nice cosy relationship will be gone for ever.

Of course if they acted professionally, complied with the law and told people the truth then life would be so much more simple. Sadly they take advantage time after time of those of us who have to deal with the stress and anguish of seeing a once functioning loved one reduced to a shadow of their former selves and jump in for the kill when we are most vulnerable.

 

[Mr_Angry]

Vulnerable

As anyone who has heard my fathers blog will no he is far from vulnerable, like me he is very angry and that is why they are so keen to keep us apart as they know I tell him the truth. The IMCA is ignoring his complaints so I will just shout louder.

 

[Bristolbelle]

Just a thoughht.....

You aren't allowed to use a tape recorder but..... what about phoning someone on a mobile and allowing the whole visit to be broadcast to them? Preferably someone like an MP or TV investigative reporter.

 

[grove]

Hello Mr A , Am very you are having all these problems , sorry am not an "Expert " so not able to help you . However just wanted to show my sympthay & support to you & your Father at this very hard time for you both . VERY BAD IN 21ST Centuray & makes me for you both

From 1993 have worked in 2 N Homes & 1 C Home ( all Run by same Firm ) have been a Domestic & later on a Kitchen Asst this i still do at 2nd N Home. All the time have been employed by the Firm have NEVER SEEN OR HEARD the type of BAD Problems you are facing . In any of the Homes have worked in & currently still work for the firm

Keep strong & YOU WILL WIN THE BATTLE ( If my Post is not in keeping with all other posts E G , giving Adivce etc just feel for you both thtas all ( My Dad has Dementia )

From Grove