If I attempt to enter the CH the police will be called

[chucky]

Mr angry, i totally see where your coming from and you have my sympathy. You have worked tirelessly on behalf of your dad, and your determination to see him back home and in your safe custody is to be applauded. But can i say one thing, and i'm not being offensive, for gods sake man calm down. Youre making yourself ill with worry,and you wont be much use to your dad if your health suffers. The "system" has let you down badly, and your victory to see it through to the end will be bittersweet if you win your case and you end up in bed with the stress. We are all behind you here, but we want to see you hale and hearty and back to tell us your dad is home and life is good. Stay calm, project your wisdom and knowledge and walk away with your head held high, not stooped with exhaustion. Keep on keeping on. I truly hope you get the result youre hoping for. Go get em, Mr Angry. x

 

[JPG1]

calm down. .......

Go get em, Mr Angry. x

Chucky, at least you didn't say "calm down, dear" - thank goodness!!

It's gonna be awfully difficult for Mr Angry to "Go get em" if he's not allowed to speak to them, and if they won't speak to him, let alone his Dad. And if they aren't prepared to provide him with the info he's asking for.

I sympathise with Mr Angry too, but I can also understand that it may be "the authorities" who will try to make him ill and thereby try to make sure that his health suffers so that he backs out of caring for/about his Dad.

Why do I say that? Because I have today been told that I have another 6 months to wait - yes, a full 6 months - before I am even to be allowed to believe there is a tunnel, the end of which I may one day reach and know then that there is indeed that thing we call light at the end of it.

I've been told today it's because "it is a very complex and involved situation that we are having to deal with". As if I didn't know that already!! As if it's not also a very complex and involved situation for me to have to deal with, because of my own personal involvement.

It's just a job for the authorities to deal with it all - that's what they're paid to do. I'm not. So all I can offer is my energy, on behalf of my own relative and my own family. On behalf of everyone else with dementia and in need of care too.

If I could post the location, the names of the authorities involved, believe me I would do so. But that kind of detail would be deleted before anyone got to read it. So you'll just have to trust me on that front. As will TP's moderators, the visible and the invisible ones.

Our world so often protects the guilty - rather than the innocent, after all. But we are all innocent until proven guilty, so why should the authorities worry about being named. Especially, when they can take years to deal with difficult and complex situations, all in their own 'best interests' of course. Perhaps if their names were to be published, they'd find a way to deal more swiftly and with greater competence, if only we were allowed to name them.

As we hear so often on TP, everyone's circumstances are different. It's not easy to tackle the 'authorities' - but they must often be challenged, if only to improve the world of dementia care for others. But another 6 months to wait is most likely to drive me to the edge. If I jump over that edge, the authorities will be to blame - not me. And most certainly not my own relative with dementia.

Sorry, chucky, but your post arrived on a very difficult and complex day for me, so I had to respond, from my heart and from my own personal experience. If only on behalf of all those of us who have ever needed to challenge the authorities that others have not even come by yet. Sincerely, I hope others never do need to come to challenge them.

I wish you well, Mr Angry.

 

[Jancis]

Sorry, chucky, but your post arrived on a very difficult and complex day for me, so I had to respond, from my heart and from my own personal experience. If only on behalf of all those of us who have ever needed to challenge the authorities that others have not even come by yet. Sincerely, I hope others never do need to come to challenge them.

I wish you well, Mr Angry.

Hi Mr Angry, I hope one day the world will know who you are and respect your efforts. Same goes for JPG1 and all the others who have taken time to back you on this thread.

My little family unit used to sit up talking into the small hours nearly every night, discussing what we could do next to help our relative and "challenge" the system in a constructive way that might help others. I know from first hand experience how this kind of intense stress can take its toll. But sometimes in life there is no other alternative. I hope you are all going to be OK and will not be ground down like my poor relative was in the first place.

 

[taffygirl]

Mr Angry i have tried to catch up with all your posts on here and must say you appear to be very angry, perhaps if you approached the situation with calmness i think you may find that things might start getting better, have you ever considered that your issues appear to be with outside agencies and not with the CH itself?

 

[JPG1]

mr angry i have tried to catch up with all your posts on here and must say you appear to be very angry, perhaps if you approached the situation with calmness i think you may find that things might start getting better, have you ever considered that your issues appear to be with outside agencies and not with the ch itself?

*** *** ***

 

[Ann_sis]

dissenters

As a new girl here I am inspired by the likes of Mr A and other members who take a stand against the injustice of SS and CH's. I am going through a similar experience fighting for my own mother and have been driven to dispair by SW's who refuse to share information, ignore my mothers wishes and those of her family and brand us as trouble makers if we question their actions. She is in a CH where she fears the staff one even hit her for spilling food we say the bruise but the CH manager just laughed and told us to prove it. We made complaints to SS who went through the motions of an investigation but nothing came of it. CH manager made it obvious it would be in my mothers 'interest' if we didn't make a fuss. We still face hurdles. People who complain make enemies within SS, CH etc and who is to say that some of those enemies are on this site or not.

 

[Katrine]

who is to say that some of those enemies are on this site or not.

Good point. All these threads and posts pop up on Google searches so you do have to be careful what you say as it is all too easy to become identifiable. We take care in each specific post but cumulatively what we post builds a personal picture. Not wanting to stoke any fires of paranoia here but as they say "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you." And please, no complaints about that not being PC, I am not mocking anyone with a mental illness.

I speak as one who was accused of being paranoid when a former public sector boss was trying to get rid of me "No, I'm sure she didn't mean that" "You probably misunderstood her" blah blah blah (from the personnel manager AND my union convenor) I was always working with one hand tied behind my back because she told lies about me ALL the time. She put my name forward for redundancy and it was accepted because she told her managers that I had volunteered. Then when I said I hadn't it was too late to change anything because they needed urgently to meet their quota of scalps. So I do understand that sometimes 'they' ARE out to get you! And if any of my enemies are reading this, if I never meet you again it will be too soon.

Of course Mr Angry is angry, who wouldn't be! He must sometimes feel he is living in a novel. We can believe what he says but not fully understand it. The situation somehow seems so extreme if we haven't experienced it ourselves. What you have Mr Angry is integrity and that is red rag to a bull for lying cowardly weasels, to mangle a few metaphors. Bullies have to get the better of you, not least to set an example to others not to rebel. But I know they will NOT get the better of YOU.

 

[seaurchin]

I have always found that treating everyone as I would wish to be treated has held my in good stead during my husband's difficult illness which has involved sectioning and a fight to get him back at home with us. I have been frustrated and angered by incompetance but no matter what I have behaved politely and considerately to hospital staff, social workers etc. I was watched when visiting my husband in hospital but as the staff gradually got to know me I (rightly so)earned respect. It is an unpleasant feeling but at the time needs must and I accepted it.

I subequently found that on each occasion I have raised valid concerns I have been listened to and attempts to address issues I have raised have always been made. An iron hand in a velvet glove is my approach. I also carefully select the issues I raise very carefully to what I consider to be the most important. I ignore the smaller issues (albeit still important). My husband came home eventually on an agreed trial basis (though medical staff and social services were concerned and were on standby to take him back at an instance). He is still successfully at home with us 1 year later.

You will not beat the system but I have had some good success by working with it rather than by fighting everything. They will just lose patience and ignore your wishes as they seem to be doing. I do appreciate that your situation sounds a lot more complex than ours but can you not try to build some bridges and try and stop all the legal fighting....guaranteed to make people dig in and fight. You seem to be trapped in a highly destructive cycle so maybe a change of tack (whatever or whoever is right or wrong) would bring some positive change.

Kindest wishes Mr Angry and I hope you can find some satisfaction......also maybe change your name tag too

Helen

 

[Bob S]

Helen,

I'm afraid I have found that when you raise valid concerns in a reasonable way that some of the authorities will dig in from the outset. They don't like people who have knowledge about how things are supposed to happen and no matter how reasonable and polite you are they will treat you with utter contempt. This is not just my own personal experience but that of many others.

There comes a point that no matter what tactics you employ they will do their utmost to frustrate and delay and will also act unlawfully in the process. They are safe in the knowledge that there are no watchdogs out there with real powers to take action against them.

 

[seaurchin]

My experiences must have been with more considerate officials. I am thankful.

 

[Bob S]

Yes, it does make a difference. I have two cases where I have contrasting experiences, that of my father and of my late father in law. I have been dealing with my father's case for almost 4 years now with a certain PCT and local authority (who thanks to the Talking Point policy of not allowing them to be named I cannot reveal) who have been obstructive from the outset.

In my father in laws case, he had Alzheimer's and was admitted to hospital in November 2008. The hospital tried the usual routine but once they realised my wife and I were well informed they changed tack and continuing care funding was awarded at the first hurdle without having to put up a fight. The case was reviewed in June 2010 and funding was agreed for another 12 months, the assessor realising that my father in laws health was worsening.

Sadly he passed away in March this year, but he was treated with dignity for his remaining years and was well cared for in the home that we found for him.

So we have two different NHS regions, who should be working to the same rules, acting totally differently. I would like to be able to name the good and the bad here, but that is not allowed. Why we cannot name the people who deliberately flout the law and the National Framework is beyond me.

 

[Marianne]

Seaurchin I hope and pray people continue to treat you as you treat them.
It would have been all my wishes come true to have been involved with agencies who were caring and truthful who would have treated my dad with the care and dignity he deserved instead of the appalling treatment he received.

I was brought up to treat people the way I expected to be treated, then I met the PCT CEO, PCT Clinical Director, SW, POVA, Care Home Managers, CQC, PHSO and a policeman hired by the PCT to call at my home and intimidate me. I soon realised being polite with these people was not possible.

My dad was severely abused in the second care home, he had all his belongings stolen in the first home. So when I found him black and blue I contacted the CSCI, they should have been informed by the manager of the home but she thought it best to say nothing but order the carers to dress my dad for a North Pole expedition. Complaining to CSCI did not go down well with her because a few days later she sent me an invite to a meeting she had arranged with the PCT, SW, CPN.

The manager opened the meeting by expressing how disappointed she was that I had reported her to CSCI and if I wanted my dad to stay at the home I had to promise never to do this again. Everyone was silent waiting for me to make this promise to her, I couldn't believe what I was hearing, I had been expecting an apology from her. To cut a long story short I told her where to go, she stood up with my dad's care notes in her hand and threw them at me with force.. I didn't pick them up, I strode over them and told her I would be moving my dad as soon as I could arrange a new home.

 

[Jancis]

Gosh Marianne, sorry I should read your posts, did you win your battle?

 

[horseface]

ch will call police if i try to remove father

i have been following Mr Angry for some time now and i feel i am aware of the ch and situation he is telling you all about. It is important for you all to understand you are being given misleading information. Mr Angry is indeed angry and as some of you have said he needs to calm down. There are a few things everyone on this site should understand the ch didnt ask for the father to be admitted ss admitted him. the ch has never charged for birthdays however mr angry was asked to pay for a shower gel for his father which he refused and also a haircut. When issues arise in the community the vulnerable adult must be protected until procedures have been carried out right or wrong the ch has to abide by legislation. I am aware of the staff of this home and service users are taken out in the community some on a daily basis. mr angrys father is indeed taken out also sitting in garden having an evening meal in the nice weather mr angry is very blinkered.The staff are exceptional and i cant let you slag them off. Mr angrys father didnt get admitted to hospital after three days and he wasnt receiving treatment in hospital for 8 weeks.Had falls happened else where maybe at home? Mr Angrys father has formed close friendships within the ch as ive been told he is not lonely he is as happy as he can be when this situation is going on. I also believe Mr angry has been offered on two occasions to meet with the ch and he has not turned upfor the meetings.For all those who have advised changing name,redirecting mail,carry on but stop believing misleading information.And no to all of you the managers and owners of the ch are unaware of my comments.It is a wonderful ch where people matter. This site needs to be used for what it is intended supporting loved ones to cope with their loved ones who suffer from such a debilitating and awful illness.

 

[Bob S]

Horseface,

Two posts and both attacking Mr Angry. Perhaps you would care to reveal if you have any connection with the care home in question, social services or any other body that is "protecting" Mr. Angry's father?

 

[JPG1]

Marianne,

I don’t quite know what to say after reading what you had to endure, while you were doing your utmost for your Dad. And yes, I also hope that Seaurchin and many others continue to be able to have such brilliant experiences. Long may they continue. If only they could be spread further ....

Don’t we all – well, us Older Persons, I mean – normally try to treat others as we would wish to be treated by them? I know it sounds quite old-fashioned to say that, but it’s what happens and has happened in my life for years now. Because that’s the way I was trained – by my parents.

But, Marianne, if anyone had hurled a file across a meeting, and in my direction, I would like to think that that person was working way beyond the level of their competence. Sadly, some care home managers are doing just that. But nobody cares enough to do much about it. Your so-called manager was hopefully despatched .... out of the world of care.

A care home manager in my own life failed to report to the then-CSCI that one of her residents had been admitted to hospital and had then died there. A basic requirement of any care home manager. But there turned out to be reasons - many reasons - why she chose that particular path.

Not only that, but she also managed to concoct a totally fabricated ‘file’ of validations for her actions. Most of which were accepted by CSCI then .... but not for long.

Finally, she also managed to treat people who had died – but not my own relative – in the most unbelievably despicable fashion. I cannot give details here, but they were reported widely in the press. She is no longer managing any care home, so you can all rest assured that you will not meet such sub-standard care for your own relatives, well not because of her anyway.

Each and every time I read posts on TP about brilliantly sparkling caring care, I want those people to be able to spread that care elsewhere. And also to understand that there is often absolutely nothing that any single person can do to avoid sub-standard care that may come their way. As they work their bodies to exhaustion, all trying to achieve the best possible care that they can for their relative with dementia.

But it's not possible via TP. It will only happen ... one day .... hopefully .... and only if every single person challenges sub-standard care that is hiding behind the name of 'care'.

Marianne, I hope you have managed to reach some kind of peace after all you have been through.

 

[Bob S]

This site needs to be used for what it is intended supporting loved ones to cope with their loved ones who suffer from such a debilitating and awful illness.

Are you saying that Mr. Angry has lied to us about the situation at the care home?

And why do you think this site should not be used for support when people have issues with professionals who are not acting correctly? Do you not feel that forms part of what this site all about?

 

[Bob S]

Each and every time I read posts on TP about brilliantly sparkling caring care, I want those people to be able to spread that care elsewhere. And also to understand that there is often absolutely nothing that any single person can do to avoid sub-standard care that may come their way. As they work their bodies to exhaustion, all trying to achieve the best possible care that they can for their relative with dementia.

But it's not possible via TP. It will only happen ... one day .... hopefully .... and only if every single person challenges sub-standard care that is hiding behind the name of 'care'.

We should be able to praise those by name who do good, and shame those who do bad. It cuts both ways and it could be of great assistance to all.

 

[JPG1]

Horseface,

Your post will be deleted before Mr Angry himself gets to read it, I would think.

Whatever your reasons, you are not posting to support anyone with dementia or any one of us who have had to walk the walk of dementia. I haven't read your other posts on the forum, so if I am totally wrong, I apologise.

Many of my posts are considered to be dubious and doubted, but I have never posted anything that comes anywhere near to your condemnation of Mr Angry.

My own relative with dementia died as a result of rubbish care. I am still dealing with the consequences of that - and I can assure you, Horseface, that I have had to unearth more worms than I ever knew existed. (I am a passionate gardener - so I love worms and all the good that most worms can do, so I use the term 'worms' in the sense that they move things around, to their own advantage.)

My sincere apologies to anyone who reads this post of mine and who doubts my sincerity. Ever ever again.

I will leave you all most sincerely,

 

[Ann_sis]

Why should posts be deleted?

If this is indeed a free forum in which people can seek advice and support then everyone should be given a right to speak.

I have also followed Mr Angry and as I said his strength of character and love for his father to press for information inspired me to speak up after months of lurking in the shadows. Horseface does indeed appear to have detailed knowledge of his case and if Mr Angry has lied as has been suggested then let Horseface present the facts and Mr Angry respond.

Horseface you raise specific points that do suggest you have knowledge of this case.

asked to pay for a shower gel for his father

Was Mr Angry asked to pay for this before or after his father received it? the wording is unclear.

Had a contract been agreed that Mr Angry would cover his fathers expenses?

Mr Angry's main issue all along is that no proof has been given by SS that his father does or does not lack mental capacity. If he does have capacity was Mr Angry's father asked if he required a hair cut and shower gel and did he state that he or his son would pay for the items? If his father does have dementia have the CH taken it upon themselves to buy the items?

father is indeed taken out also sitting in garden

Where are these gardens? are they public gardens or are they part of the care home grounds? My mother enjoyed going to the park as being an inner city CH it had no grounds and it was an escape from the confines of the building.

Mr angrys father didnt get admitted to hospital after three days and he wasnt receiving treatment in hospital for 8 weeks

Then how many days after he entered the CH was he admitted and how long did he spend in hospital?

happy as he can be when this situation is going on

An ambigious quote. My mother always said 'musn't grumble' every day she was in the CH even when it was discovered staff were assualting her. Unfortunately the older generation have a more stoic attitude than us who are younger. Mr Angry claims if he enters the CH the police will be called so I assume his father does not have any contact with his son, is that correct? Are you suggesting that Mr Angry's father is 'happy' with this arrangement? Mr Angey has never mentioned any other relatives so I have no idea if other family members visit or not can you enlighten us?

I also believe Mr angry has been offered on two occasions to meet with the ch and he has not turned upfor the meetings

Mr Angry has never mentioned this can you provide dates and times when these meetings took place? and Mr Angry perhaps you would care to comment.