Uti
- Thread starter chucky
- Start date
This as the nearest to an explanation I can find:
My husband has only had UTIs since becoming immobile and wearing continence pads. His immune system must be compromsed. He also has an enlarged prostrate which I suspect contributes to the problem.
Others may have more information.
My husband has only had UTIs since becoming immobile and wearing continence pads. His immune system must be compromsed. He also has an enlarged prostrate which I suspect contributes to the problem.
Others may have more information.
I believe most eldery people are prone to them, but that the issue with dementia sufferers is not necessarily that they get more of them, just the catastrophic effects it has on them.
Poor communication may also mean that the symptoms dont get noticed as early.
Poor communication may also mean that the symptoms dont get noticed as early.
Part of the problem with UTI is a poor immune function.
This paper
Antimicrobial Peptides, Innate Immunity, and the Normally Sterile Urinary Tract started me on the road to recovery as I increased the amount of vitamin D3 I was taking to 5000iu/daily and raising my 25(OH)D to around 60ng/ml 150nmol/l made a huge difference to UTI frequency.
Because I've lost the nerves connecting bladder to brain I have no ability to pee naturally so I have to self catheterise 5 times daily. This inevitably results in repeatedly reintroducing infection and the more you use antibiotics the more resistant the strains of e coli become.
Even with the Vitamin D I still got to the point where I had to be hospitalized to have the only antibiotic this strain of e coli administered. That made me realise I had to do more to inhibit the growth of pathogenic bacteria.
I changed to drinking green tea. Those who enjoy trying to understand why this helps may like to Watch Bonnie Brassler explaining how gut flora communicate and then you'll better understand how green tea s knocking out the ability of E coli to communicate with other E coli to organise an infection.
It works in other ways as well as it's anti inflammatory also and controlling inflammation also helps reduce the pain you experience.
The next layer protection comes from Curcumin.
Curcumin works in a different way to Green tea and Vitamin D. It has been found that curcumin, the main bioactive component of Curcuma longa, inhibits Bacillus subtilis and Escherichia coli growth by inhibiting FtsZ assembly. So adding this to the other strategies helps attack the E Coli bacteria through a different approach. I take a 500mg capsule night and morning as I think it has other benefits, (cancer, iron chelation, anti oxidant etc) as well is it's action on E Coli.
Although Resveratrol (from red wine and supplement) works in conjunction with curcumin it also works in other ways as well. So in combination curcumin and resveratrol work better than when used separately. If people are worried about the risk of Alzheimer's then it's good to understand how it works in conjunction with melatonin.
Melatonin itself is a useful supplement for people with UTI because UTI's often increase frequency and this may mean they are getting disrupted sleep having to pee in the night. Melatonin use and improved sleep hygiene/circadian rhythm does help lower excess nocturnal urine production and increases bladder capacity.
I've put some more links to the role of melatonin in Alzheimer's care in this blog and comments
Mercola has a article on D Mannose as a way of stopping a UTI and for UTI prevention. You don't have to buy from him, There are other online USA discount supplement providers that offer cheaper shipping to the UK. Although I was UTI free I have given D mannose a trial to see what it was like. I think maybe my pee is a bit more sparkly clear.
Do also remember that mild dehydration may be exacerbating the problem. The more you drink the more likely you are to flush out the bad bugs.
For people who are able to use self catherize (using a catheter intermittently rather than having a catheter left in place and attached to a bag) it may be worth changing the type of catheter you are using.
This is the type Hollister advance I use
You can see it has a protective tip that bypasses the first 15mm of the distal urethra, where the majority of bacteria are present. Hollister offer a home delivery service but I like to support my local doctors pharmacy so I get a bulk prescription every 3 months delivered from my surgery/dispensary.
For people who are incontinent at night and who don't respond to melatonin for dealing with nocturia, it may be worth manually draining the bladder before bedtime. It's possible that the bladder isn't being emptied properly and so remains a breeding ground for bacteria. Hollister also do a female version (shorter).
This paper
Antimicrobial Peptides, Innate Immunity, and the Normally Sterile Urinary Tract started me on the road to recovery as I increased the amount of vitamin D3 I was taking to 5000iu/daily and raising my 25(OH)D to around 60ng/ml 150nmol/l made a huge difference to UTI frequency.
Because I've lost the nerves connecting bladder to brain I have no ability to pee naturally so I have to self catheterise 5 times daily. This inevitably results in repeatedly reintroducing infection and the more you use antibiotics the more resistant the strains of e coli become.
Even with the Vitamin D I still got to the point where I had to be hospitalized to have the only antibiotic this strain of e coli administered. That made me realise I had to do more to inhibit the growth of pathogenic bacteria.
I changed to drinking green tea. Those who enjoy trying to understand why this helps may like to Watch Bonnie Brassler explaining how gut flora communicate and then you'll better understand how green tea s knocking out the ability of E coli to communicate with other E coli to organise an infection.
It works in other ways as well as it's anti inflammatory also and controlling inflammation also helps reduce the pain you experience.
The next layer protection comes from Curcumin.
Curcumin works in a different way to Green tea and Vitamin D. It has been found that curcumin, the main bioactive component of Curcuma longa, inhibits Bacillus subtilis and Escherichia coli growth by inhibiting FtsZ assembly. So adding this to the other strategies helps attack the E Coli bacteria through a different approach. I take a 500mg capsule night and morning as I think it has other benefits, (cancer, iron chelation, anti oxidant etc) as well is it's action on E Coli.
Although Resveratrol (from red wine and supplement) works in conjunction with curcumin it also works in other ways as well. So in combination curcumin and resveratrol work better than when used separately. If people are worried about the risk of Alzheimer's then it's good to understand how it works in conjunction with melatonin.
Melatonin itself is a useful supplement for people with UTI because UTI's often increase frequency and this may mean they are getting disrupted sleep having to pee in the night. Melatonin use and improved sleep hygiene/circadian rhythm does help lower excess nocturnal urine production and increases bladder capacity.
I've put some more links to the role of melatonin in Alzheimer's care in this blog and comments
Mercola has a article on D Mannose as a way of stopping a UTI and for UTI prevention. You don't have to buy from him, There are other online USA discount supplement providers that offer cheaper shipping to the UK. Although I was UTI free I have given D mannose a trial to see what it was like. I think maybe my pee is a bit more sparkly clear.
Do also remember that mild dehydration may be exacerbating the problem. The more you drink the more likely you are to flush out the bad bugs.
For people who are able to use self catherize (using a catheter intermittently rather than having a catheter left in place and attached to a bag) it may be worth changing the type of catheter you are using.
This is the type Hollister advance I use
You can see it has a protective tip that bypasses the first 15mm of the distal urethra, where the majority of bacteria are present. Hollister offer a home delivery service but I like to support my local doctors pharmacy so I get a bulk prescription every 3 months delivered from my surgery/dispensary.
For people who are incontinent at night and who don't respond to melatonin for dealing with nocturia, it may be worth manually draining the bladder before bedtime. It's possible that the bladder isn't being emptied properly and so remains a breeding ground for bacteria. Hollister also do a female version (shorter).
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This guy reckons he can tell if his mum has UTI by her temperature Be interesting to know if others find that having a UTI raises their body temperature. If you keep a supply of
10 Parameter Urine Dip Strip Test 100 Test Strips
obtainable from EBAY UK (around £10) or maybe begged from your doctor/health professional you could monitor if a change in temperature coincided with an indication on the strips.
Most of us do not drink as much as we should do and easily get dehydrated.
In dementia, people forget to eat and drink and lose the normal desire that when one is thirsty you drink. With a compromised immune system and a lack of fluid flowing through the kidneys UTIs readily occur - then when they do they draw on the body's defence system again to fight the infection.
It's a tough challenge but worth noting how much fluid a sufferer actually drinks - and to keep the intake up as much as possible.
In dementia, people forget to eat and drink and lose the normal desire that when one is thirsty you drink. With a compromised immune system and a lack of fluid flowing through the kidneys UTIs readily occur - then when they do they draw on the body's defence system again to fight the infection.
It's a tough challenge but worth noting how much fluid a sufferer actually drinks - and to keep the intake up as much as possible.
INFLAMMATION. When your body creates pro inflammatory cytokines to fight the infection they get everywhere else in your body and your brain. Inflammation in the brain leads to depression, in the joints it's chronic pain, and in the digestive system it upsets your metabolism. So too much inflammation affects every part of you and that's why you feel so awful.
It's one of the reasons why all the things I've suggested, Vitamin D, melatonin, curcumin, green tea, and resveratrol help because not only do they have a direct effect on the pathogenic bacteria that cause the problem but they all also work as anti inflammatory agents. By not only dealing with the bugs but also helping the inflammation they work on both fronts at the same time.
One reason why this approach tends to be more effective is because of this two pronged attach. Antibiotics only work on the bacteria but because they kill ALL the bacteria in the system they tend to make you feel worse because it will take a long time for the good bacteria to re establish.
Hello miss cool
I have found a couple of links which might shed some light on infection in people with dementia.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080916215205.htm
http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/News/Media-office/Press-releases/2008/WTX050472.htm
I have found a couple of links which might shed some light on infection in people with dementia.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080916215205.htm
http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/News/Media-office/Press-releases/2008/WTX050472.htm
This is an interesting thread for me given that Mum is now back in hospital. Sylvia, I shall read your links with interest when I get a chance, thank you.
Useful links.
You may also have seen the recent headlines saying
Packing on the Pounds in Middle Age Linked to Dementia people who were overweight or obese at midlife had an 80 percent higher risk of developing dementia, Alzheimer's disease or vascular dementia in late life compared to people with normal BMI.
and the reason for this is that fat cells themselves produce pro inflammatory cytokines so people who are overweight usually have chronic inflammation and therefore use up their Vitamin D3 reserves dealing with the inflammation, therefore it isn't available to provide neuroprotection for the brain.
It's why we all need to improve our vitamin D status as well as trying to stay a reasonable weight. Part of the trouble is that when we eat pro inflammatory foods (like refined carbohydrates/sugar/fructose/high fructose corn syrup/omega 6 seed/vegetable oils) these create an inflammatory situation in our digestive systems and the only gut flora that prefer that are the very bacteria that cause more inflammation and also extract more calories from the diet. So to change the gut flora to lean type, non inflammatory sorts you have to try to discourage those pathogenic sorts while encouraging the probiotic types.
Which is where the beneficial aspects of vitamin D3. omega 3. curcumin, resveratrol, melatonin are helpful as they not only resolve inflammation but also inhibit the pathogens.
I am not so sure that Obesity and Vit D have much to do with UTIs.
However this extract may be of interest:
However this extract may be of interest:
It's a combination of factors, basically people with dementia have a tendancy to be elderly, have poor personal hygiene and poor nutrition plus possibly incontinence or continence problems like retention and all of these combine to make an ideal environment for UTI's to develop. Particularly women who are much more prone to them due to the construction of their anatomy.
No-one is quite sure why it can produce such devastating results in combination with dementia but it surely involves the immune response. It's also known that any infection or physical trauma can produce such effects but for some reason it seems particularly accute with UTI's.
Moreover, UTI's can be stealthy in that they may produce no obvious or overt physical symptoms (in fact many people get them without ever knowing)
There are certainly lots of things you can do to prevent them and two of the most effective are good hygiene including proper after-toilet technique and having good hydration. Cranberry juice (or extract, equally effective) can be of great benefit
No-one is quite sure why it can produce such devastating results in combination with dementia but it surely involves the immune response. It's also known that any infection or physical trauma can produce such effects but for some reason it seems particularly accute with UTI's.
Moreover, UTI's can be stealthy in that they may produce no obvious or overt physical symptoms (in fact many people get them without ever knowing)
There are certainly lots of things you can do to prevent them and two of the most effective are good hygiene including proper after-toilet technique and having good hydration. Cranberry juice (or extract, equally effective) can be of great benefit
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Hello. thanks everyone for the replies, and Ted, Beckyjan and Grannie G for the links, my dad's had dementia for almost 6 years now and im learning new things every day about this disease. I thought i knew most things but after reading these links i realise how much i still dont know about the condition. I'm glad i found TP because ive found out things here that ive never seen in the books and leaflets ive read. I'm still amazed at how a urine infection can cause so many problems, to be honest, if i hadnt experienced it with my dad, i would never have believed it. I'm grateful for your knowledge and wisdom.x
Here's another one for you to read, chucky, if you're interested.
http://eprints.nottingham.ac.uk/1346/1/Non-resp_eprints_version.pdf
Yes, it is a fairly 'academic' piece of writing, and it covers more than just UTIs, including antibiotic-prescribing and in particular, care home considerations above all else, but it's still fairly easy to read and to understand.
It comes under the umbrella of research, without which we'd all be in a desperate state.
http://eprints.nottingham.ac.uk/1346/1/Non-resp_eprints_version.pdf
Yes, it is a fairly 'academic' piece of writing, and it covers more than just UTIs, including antibiotic-prescribing and in particular, care home considerations above all else, but it's still fairly easy to read and to understand.
It comes under the umbrella of research, without which we'd all be in a desperate state.
Thanks JPG1, interesting reading, thankfully theres people like yourself who are clued up on these matters, i wouldnt begin to know where to research these topics, theres so much i dont know but i am learning all the time. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. x
Perhaps you missed the link to Antimicrobial Peptides, Innate Immunity, and the Normally Sterile Urinary Tract or maybe you are not aware that VITAMIN D is the factor that up-regulates antimicrobial peptides that are the natural way our body deals with or sort out infections.
Without the ability to fight urinary tract infections naturally you are (I was) obliged to resort to antibiotics but I got to the point there was only 1 antibiotics left to deal with the E coli strain I had. If you only had one option left to fight infections would you want to use it up and become antibiotic resistant to that last card?
The main reason I have not had to rely on antibiotics as a first line approach to dealing with UTI is because I've raised my vitamin D status so I've always got vitamin D3 stored in my body.
However, people who have to use pipes daily to pee are bound always to move some pathogenic bacteria into the bladder and so are even more prone to infection than normal people.
That is why I had to work even harder to inhibit e coli proliferation. (hence the need for Green Tea/curcumin/resveratrol.
Bear in mind these natural antibiotic agents don't just deal with e coli.
Green Tea MRSA
Curcumin Staphylococcus aureus
Resveratrol methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA)
So for vulnerable people who MAY have to go into hospital ensuring their natural immune function is primed up with NATURAL defences such as Vitamin d, Green Tea, Curcumin, Resveratrol BEFORE they enter a danger zone is worth the effort.
As far as obesity is concerned as I explained previously their immune function is compromised because their bodies use up vitamin D faster than normal people. Thus we find obese people are more generally vulnerable to infection and Obese/overweight people have lower vitamin D status and higher Diabetes type 2 risk (and that also increases risk of Alzheimer's, although the processes are not the same not all diabetics go on to dementia and not all AD's are diabetic it's they share underlying factors such as inflammation)
Sure it is the case that the same genes link obesity and Alzheimer's.
Obesity and the brain: a possible genetic link But although it is true that genes set the scene and to some extent load the dice this only makes people predisposed to Obesity/Alzheimer's/diabetes etc.
Genes load the gun. Diet pulls the trigger.
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