Avoiding nursing home fees

Amy

Registered User
Jan 4, 2006
3,454
0
Hiya Kathleen,
"It is as if they don't matter any more."
I think that is the way we have been made to feel from the time mum was diagnosed with MID - no medication, no hope - just get on and deal with it.
Love Helen
 

Helena

Registered User
May 24, 2006
715
0
Cate

Your story and mine are pretty alike as are our views on the robbery thats occuring to dementia patients both of their health and their wealth

The entire government should be totally ashamed of the despicable way they are treating those with dementia

Like you I wish my Mother had enjoyed the fruit of all her struggles instead of facing lining the pockets of NH owners or Gordon Browns coffers

We now have her idiot neighbours saying " she would get better if she could live with my sister or me " !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Theres no way either of us could cope with the appalling aggression my Mother is dishing out and nor should anyone have to deal with it .

While she insists on swtaying in her own home and refusing to go into a NH theres nothing we can do about the situation no matter what the neighbours think

Theres something very very wrong with the Human Rights Act and the way Dementia patients are treated/robbed
 

noelphobic

Registered User
Feb 24, 2006
3,452
0
Liverpool
Cate said:
Hi All

I have given this a great deal of thought since the first post. And I must admit to being a bit frightened of the responses I will probably get to my opinion.

Regards to all
Cate

You shouldn't be frightened of the responses you will get as many people will agree with you completely.

My parents also lived very frugal lives but my father took it to ridiculous levels. They were both in receipt of attendance allowance but this never really got spent. Therefore it stayed in their respective bank accounts and is now gradually being paid back to the government to cover my mum's care! Their house was in a poor state of repair which now makes it more difficult to sell and they could have lived in much greater comfort than they did. Towards the end of his life my father was literally living on the sofa as he couldn't manage the stairs. He was his own worst enemy in some respects and resisted all attempts to get them to move to somewhere more suited to their needs - I am not talking residential care here, I mean either sheltered accommodation or just a 'normal' flat where there would have been no stairs to worry about.
 

Libby

Registered User
May 20, 2006
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North East
My Dad was a farmer all his life, renting a farm and working 7 days a week during harvest time and only having 2 weeks holiday a year. When we were younger money was very tight, although I never felt as though I lost out.

Then the owner of the farm (Lord Londonderry) sold up to a certain owner of Newcastle football club, and Mum & Dad had to leave the farm. They received a small amount of compensation, which allowed them to buy a small bungalow.

They then had a good few years playing bowls, having a few holidays before Dad got cancer. A few years later, Mum was diagnosed as having early AD. Dad knew that he would go before her, and knew that she would have to go into a nursing home due to her over-riding fear of being on her own.

They changed their wills at that point, so that if one of them died, half of the house was passed to the 5 siblings. After scrimping and saving for so long themselves, they were desperate that all of their funds were not swallowed up by nursing care fees.

Mum is now in a home and we are just waiting for the sale of the home to go through. I intend to give my children part of the money, and to have my garden done in memory of my Dad (who would have done it himself had he been well)

I don't feel greedy at all - my mum will have paid about 70k in nursing home fees before her money runs out and the council takes over the payment

I do feel angry that she has to pay so much - my dad had to go into a hospice for about a month and he never had to pay for any of that. It does seem to me that AD isn't looked at it in the same light as Cancer, and yet they're both just as debillitating. But then AD affects mainly older people, whereas cancer affects people of all ages - could that be the difference!

Libs
 

Babsj

Registered User
Oct 5, 2006
2
0
Berkshire
Just read the whole discussion of NH fees and who pays. I am meeting with Social Services on Tuesday and was ready to fight my corner on who pays when my mum (who is in Mental Unit in hospital at the moment) goes into a NH. I assumed that because she was ill with Alzheimers that it was the same as any other disease and should be treated on the NHS. Looks like I am wrong. Are there any rules and do different authorities treat their patients differently? Has anyone got any tips for my meeting? :)
 

tedsmum

Registered User
Jun 28, 2006
34
0
Babsj

I had a meeting with Social Services on Friday and was told in no uncertain terms that my dad who is in a mental health assessment unit needed to be moved on to a nursing home as his bed was needed. When I dared to suggest that I needed more time to find a suitable home the SW turned to my dad and said you'd like to be somewhere else wouldn't you, somewhere settled where you could stay and be happy. Of course he just nodded and said yes and she looked at me and said we need to do this as soon as possible. can I have your mobile phone number so the finance section can contact you to discuss selling his house. I don't think so!!!!
He has been diagnosed with Lewy Body Dementia has a heart condition has had a heart attack and several strokes yet he has been assessed as needing no nursing care and has to be fully self funding. I've lost track of the number of times someone from SS has asked me if he has his own house. Yes but only after a lifetime of scrimping and saving for a deposit, taking on two jobs and never treating themselves ever! After they finally acheived their dream my mum died and my dad developed dementia.
Sorry to ramble on but the best advice I can give you is don't be intimidated by SS try to have someone with you if you can and sign nothing until you are completely
sure there are no other options and you are happy with the care package offered.
Thinking of you, take care

Christine
 

pammy14

Registered User
Dec 5, 2005
103
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leicestershire
Don't worry most people feel the same as you . My sister wouldn't have wanted all her savings and the house going to some greedy nursing home owner and yes most are owned by very large companies making enormous profits (, not all I know)

She will live with us as long as we can manage and I will make sure her money is spent as she wouild have wished. Not being greedy at all but she had nothing all her life never drunk smoked or any vices. I know what we will do with our own money, give it to the kids while we are young and spend as much as we can. I don't want care homes to have my money.
 

plastic scouser

Registered User
Sep 22, 2006
49
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Hale Village, Liverpool
Just to add my comments to this debate, we are friends with a financial advisor - she has told us in no uncertain terms to NEVER mention any financial issues when dealing with ANY part of social services and that we should NEVER meet social services without her being present - she likened it to being in the position of a suspect at a police interview & needing a solicitor to be present!

It's a terrible shame that the NHS has reached this point, where people who have paid their dues for the whole of their lives are then finding that they're now being charged for that very thing that they've paid all that money for....:confused:
 

Babsj

Registered User
Oct 5, 2006
2
0
Berkshire
Thanks for all your postings and comments on this bitter subject. It is useful to know what I am up against. How do they check on the patient's financial situation anyway. I know they can easily find out if mum owns her own home, which I have already admitted anyway. What about the cash stashed in bank accounts?!?!?

The meeting with the Care Manager has again been postponed until Thursday and I will let you know how I get on. The following Thursday a meeting is to be scheduled with the hospital doctors, consultants, CPN, Ward nurse, etc. oh and the family. From what you have said this could be the biggie, i.e. where does mum go next. Keep you all posted.

During my visit today, mum was asking about when she gets better and goes home. It's heartbreaking knowing she won't get better and I doubt she will ever even see her home again. All I do if fob her off and quickly change the subject.

Barbara
 

Lonestray

Registered User
Aug 3, 2006
236
0
Hereford
NH fees

Kathleen, it is now over three and a half years I came to accept we don't matter anymore. I was paying for my wife's care in a NH in spite of feeding and caring for her on my daily visits of 8 hrs a day. When I removed her I accepted we didn't matter. When we married 51yrs ago we didn't have any money between us. She started work in a clothing factory at age 14, like most working class then did, her two brothers went dawn the mines at 14. There was no NHS in the 1930's and early '40's people of our generation were badly treated. As a two year old I was charged with receving alm under the 1924 Act and sentenced by a Judge Cussen to be detained till aged 16. I managed to fulfill my dream in having a large house in the countryside. I sold it to move my wife here to care for her on my own. Surplus monies I gave to my family. Twice this year my wife had to be rushed to A&E to be resuscitated each time she recovered I had her returned home. Last time 5th Sep I was advised she had a mini stroke and it could happen any time, did I wish her to be kept in hospital where she might die, or home?. Four hrs later I had her home. Since then no one has checked on her, but then I don't give a dam anymore. Should I ever be cursed with the illness I can't write what I will do. For sure there'll be no 'SS' or N. Home for me. God bless Padraig.
 

Grannie G

Volunteer Moderator
Apr 3, 2006
81,743
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Kent
Well said, Deborah. I have said it before and I`ll say it again.

Assets belong to a person as long as that person lives. If that person, in health, chooses to spend his/her own money on drinking, gambling, holidays, or wine, women and song, it`s no-one`s business but their own. If that same person is unfortunate enough to develop a debilitating, progressive condition, the same money should be spent, on his/her behalf, to give the the best care and the most comfort possible, in the final years.

That the system is wrong is without doubt. That people have to pay for nursing care in homes, but not in hospitals, is unfair and unjust. That hospices have to depend on donations is, in my opinion, a disgrace.

Even so, it is very upsetting to hear of families counting their inheritance before the death of their family member. They have no right.
 

Helena

Registered User
May 24, 2006
715
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Actually anyone who is sick /has a medical condition is entitled to FREE nursing care irrespective of assetts

The current attempts to charge Dementia patients for care is unlawful because the NHS Act of 1946 has never been changed or repealed

see www.************

There are many cases going through the courts to reclaim the costs and many have already won
Charging for care is simply a cynical attempt by Blair and his buddy Brown to swell the tax coffers hoping we are too stupid to realise the illegality of it


In 1997 Blair stated publically " I do not want to see my children grow up in a country where the elderly are forced to sell their homes to pay for care " it was also blazened across full page newspaper ads promoting his party for the 1997 Election campaign
 

Tender Face

Account Closed
Mar 14, 2006
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NW England
Grannie G, as so often I find myself nodding at everything you have to say ....

BUT (and here's me saying again what I know I've said before .....) .....

Grannie G said:
Even so, it is very upsetting to hear of families counting their inheritance before the death of their family member. They have no right.

Inheritance seems to be something always measured in 'pound notes' (or $sss) .... (and assumes assets are left! - believe me I've once inherited a debt!!!)

Our inheritance is much more than that .... and comes before .... and remains ....

... and yet I can hear my dad when he knew HE was terminally ill (Helena - he was biggest 'anti-Thatcher-milk-snatcher' you ever did hear! and this was probably around 1997 ... when he 'converted' to Lib Dem as the 'only' alternative ;) ) ... swearing .. 'I'd rather die than have them take this house from me ..... I did it for you .....' .... and now I wonder what he might think that I am trying to preserve his life earnings put into those bricks and mortar and the pension mum enjoys thanks to his hard work ...... to make sure, God forbid when we need it, mum will be 'funded' for whatever care she needs... and I hear him saying ... 'sod the house....... whatever she needs ...'

How times change..... and I'm sure dad wouldn't mind me going against his original wishes ......

I might be faced with losing the financial inheritance dad hoped would be mine ..... but had he not already 'gifted' me with so much on an emotional level .... I wouldn't be here now ... let alone able to look after mum (for him if not for me)....

Karen, x
 

Tender Face

Account Closed
Mar 14, 2006
5,379
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NW England
A final thought .... (for tonight)....

Anyone else noticed how many 'views' this thread has inspired??????

.........................................................
...................................................................

K, x
 

Skye

Registered User
Aug 29, 2006
17,000
0
SW Scotland
Grannie G said:
.
Assets belong to a person as long as that person lives.

Even so, it is very upsetting to hear of families counting their inheritance before the death of their family member. They have no right.

Sylvia,

As ever, I agree with every word.

When John and I got married. we promised to share our 'wordly wealth', and to care for each other 'in sickness and in health'. Our money will be used for John's care, for as long as he needs it, and hang the inheritance.

I recognise that the situation is different for those caring for a parent. I think they should at least be allowed to claim expenses, for visiting, clothes etc. There is no reason for their own family to suffer. But the money belongs to the parent, for as long as thay need it, and no-one apart from the primary carer should have a claim on it.

I might be faced with losing the financial inheritance dad hoped would be mine ..... but had he not already 'gifted' me with so much on an emotional level .... I wouldn't be here now ... let alone able to look after mum (for him if not for me)....

Karen, x


Karen, you have a wonderful attitude. Your mum is very lucky to have you.
 

rjmcl

Registered User
Oct 2, 2006
4
0
Aberdeen
Well, nice (!?) to see my thread is still active after all these months.
My mum is much worse now, confirmed as Alzheimers (or cerebral atrophy consistent with....) and far more confused.
I have done nothing about the finances, in a few short months I have lost any sense of humour or cockiness I may have had. I work full time and go in to my mums every evening to check shes taken her medication, has eaten, prepare a meal, take clothes away for washing, make a shopping list etc etc. She now thinks I am her husband. (My dad died 30 years ago and mum has lived on her own since I left home 25 years ago)
Every time I go she wants me to stay, thinks I am having an affair because I say I am leaving again to go to my own house and wife. She does not remember my wife or her grandchildren - 24 hours after we all visit, she has forgotten them.

Endless repetition of instructions / requests over medication. Crying because I am leaving her, invites to bed, how many women do I need?.
No, Im not quite so jolly any more, taken many days off work to take her to hospital appointments or other crises. There is a care worker going in each day at lunchtime, but my quality of life is slowly and surely being ground down.
Money? - I dont give a **** about the money now. Mum always said she never wanted to go 'into a home' when she was well - she still says it now. I dont know how long I can go on supporting her at home
 

Grannie G

Volunteer Moderator
Apr 3, 2006
81,743
0
Kent
This discussion about inheritance, does not take into account how we plan for old age.
I always vowed I would grow old gracefully, keep active, maintain my dignity, do all the things I couldn`t afford to do when I had to work, and leave some of our hard earned, carefully saved money to our son, when we died.
Naive it may be, but it never occured to me there would be health problems. We looked after ourselves, had a healthy diet and a healthy lifestyle.
I can say the same for my parents and grandparents. They worked hard, were never extravagant, always saved a little of their income for `a rainy day` but never really gave a thought to ill health.
Even if we are most realistic in our every day lives, we plan a trouble free retirement. And why shouldn`t we? But sometimes things don`t go to plan.

Dear rjmcl, I`m so sorry you have been burdened with so much worry. My husband and I promised we would never put either of us into a home. But those promises were made in ignorance and denial, even though we`d experienced Alzheimers with my mother. I will keep my promise as long as I`m able, but as a wife, I do not have the additional responsibilities of a family and a job. As a son, it is becoming too much for you to cope with, and perhaps the time has now come for you to consider other options.
Take care, and keep in touch. Sylvia
 
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Skye

Registered User
Aug 29, 2006
17,000
0
SW Scotland
Hi, rjmcl

It sounds as if you are at the end of your tether. You're right, money becomes meaningless when things are as bad as that.

You need some help. Have you asked SS for a re-assessment? You should be getting more help at home with your mum.

I think you should also be looking for a good care home for her. I know she doesn't want that, (which of us do?), but you have your own health to consider. You can't go on like that.

Keep in touch, you've got friends here.
 

Kayla

Registered User
May 14, 2006
621
0
Kent
My Mum has been in care now for eighteen months, with just over a year in a Nursing Home. Nearly a third of her weekly fees are paid for by her State Pension, Attendance Allowance and Registered Nursing Care Contribution, although she is completely self-funding. She is fortunate in also having a private pension and rental income from her house.
We are having to use some of her savings each month, but are able to put off selling the house so it is increasing in value. I think it is reasonable for people to contribute towards their own care, but it should be on a sliding scale and done in a fair way.
The very rich have ways to avoid taxation and the poorer people may be entitled to various benefits. Middle income groups and those in a crisis situation may well be missing out on money or allowances which they are entitled to. The whole system needs to be simplified and made more straightforward and the elderly shouldn't be rushed into selling their homes, as a home is a very emotional asset. There are automatic ages for things like heating allowances so why not introduce supplements or benefits into the taxation system? Anyone on a high income would pay more taxes, so they would pay some of their money back. There could be some kind of interest free loan to meet any shortfall, just like the Student Loan System.
I don't think anyone should be expecting an inheritance from their parents, but should appreciate all the emotional and financial help they may have had during their student years, and when buying a house and raising a family. There isn't a law that compels people to leave all their money to their children. It could be left to a Charity or distant relative or a friend instead.
If my Mum could be made better, it would be worth all the money in the world.
Kayla