Hi, I care for my MIL who lives in an annex, without a loo, at our house. She has moderate dementia (they think alzheimers) and has been on aricept for a 8 months. She has started wandering at night, trying to make tea (sometimes unsuccessfully), "washing" her bed pad, etc. She wears pads and a carer comes twice a day to change her and deal with hygiene issues. I find the wandering at night quite freaky, and I need my sleep. We have a gas stove and I'm worried she'll turn it on. This morning, before we were awake, she soaked a bedpad and left it on the carpet to "dry". Carpet soaked. Unusually, because his parents were quite old when he was born, we have a young family of 9, 3 and 8 months (hence the need for sleep!). I have to prioritise the safety of my children and therefore would like to lock her bedroom door between 11pm and 6.30am. I am thinking about everyone's safety. The loo is in the main house but she is wearing a pad 24/7. Am I allowed to do this?? The carer this morning said I would be breeching her human rights. But what about the rights of my small children to live in a safe environment? Please advise!
Can I lock the door at night?
- Thread starter fruittea
- Start date
Hello Fruittea and welcome to Talking Point (TP)
I am sorry you are experiencing these difficult circumstances but in my own opinion I think it would be wrong to lock your MIL in her bedroom. Apart from the risk to her if there was some reason you all had to leave the house in the night, I believe she may be extemely frightened by the experience of being locked in. She may make more commotion trying to release herself than walking about the house.
I do understand how frustrating nighttime waking can be, we had experience of this ourselves, but I think it might be preferable to try some other diversions.
With reference to the gas stove I wonder if it can be turned off, my own, although gas, has a safety device and it will not work if the electric switch is turned off. It does seem you may have to take additional safety measures.
Does your MIL have a consultant from a mental health team, or a community nurse? I do think it might be a good idea for you to contact them. They may be able to help you all.
This is a link to factsheet re moving and walking about.
http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/document_pdf.php?documentID=152
This is a link to a factsheet re unusual behaviour which includes a section on nighttime waking
http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/document_pdf.php?documentID=159
I am sorry you are experiencing these difficult circumstances but in my own opinion I think it would be wrong to lock your MIL in her bedroom. Apart from the risk to her if there was some reason you all had to leave the house in the night, I believe she may be extemely frightened by the experience of being locked in. She may make more commotion trying to release herself than walking about the house.
I do understand how frustrating nighttime waking can be, we had experience of this ourselves, but I think it might be preferable to try some other diversions.
With reference to the gas stove I wonder if it can be turned off, my own, although gas, has a safety device and it will not work if the electric switch is turned off. It does seem you may have to take additional safety measures.
Does your MIL have a consultant from a mental health team, or a community nurse? I do think it might be a good idea for you to contact them. They may be able to help you all.
This is a link to factsheet re moving and walking about.
http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/document_pdf.php?documentID=152
This is a link to a factsheet re unusual behaviour which includes a section on nighttime waking
http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/document_pdf.php?documentID=159
Last edited:
Commode?
You could turn the gas off at night but that doesn't help if you have gas central heating. Would MIL cope with a commode in her room, or would she try to empty the pan herself? It does sound as if the lack of a toilet nearby is a bit of a problem but if she is in the habit of tidying up then she would still be making a mess with washing things at night.
I'm so sorry you have this worry as you obviously all need your sleep and you don't know what she is getting up to at night. I don't think you can expect the wandering to stop. Many elderly people are light sleepers and potter at night, it isn't necessarily just because of the dementia but obviously the dementia means she is doing inappropriate things, or not able to do these things safely.
Keep posting, we will offer support. I can't imagine what I would have done when my children were small if I had had the responsibility of an elderly person as well. Your own health is so important. How can you get a really good night's sleep if you are worrying about the wandering? Try to get all the advice and outside support that you can. This is not a temporary situation.
Sending you love, Katrine
You could turn the gas off at night but that doesn't help if you have gas central heating. Would MIL cope with a commode in her room, or would she try to empty the pan herself? It does sound as if the lack of a toilet nearby is a bit of a problem but if she is in the habit of tidying up then she would still be making a mess with washing things at night.
I'm so sorry you have this worry as you obviously all need your sleep and you don't know what she is getting up to at night. I don't think you can expect the wandering to stop. Many elderly people are light sleepers and potter at night, it isn't necessarily just because of the dementia but obviously the dementia means she is doing inappropriate things, or not able to do these things safely.
Keep posting, we will offer support. I can't imagine what I would have done when my children were small if I had had the responsibility of an elderly person as well. Your own health is so important. How can you get a really good night's sleep if you are worrying about the wandering? Try to get all the advice and outside support that you can. This is not a temporary situation.
Sending you love, Katrine
Hi and welcome to Talking Point.
I understand where you are coming from, and in truth, while a professional carer could never get away with this, and it is both unethical and potentially dangerous, I wouldn't be surprised if people do this and get away with it. However, I think Christin has hit the nail on the head - it almost certainly wouldn't have the desired effect (to keep the rest of the family from being disturbed).
You should definitely be able to get a disabling device for the gas stove, although how expensive that will be will depend on your stove. When she tries to make a cup of tea, does she use a kettle? It may be necessary to remove that from sight as well. As to the washing of the bed pad - I don't have any idea about how to stop that. People with dementia will do this sort of thing, believing they are helping.
I would be concerned, though, if she is wearing pads, how the bed pad itself is getting soaked through. You say a carer comes in twice a day, but I assume the pad she is wearing is being changed more frequently than that? It may be that you need to investigate another form of continence pad if it is being soaked through regularly. There are many different kinds and it may be that if her bed pad isn't getting soaked she won't feel the need to wash it.
Also, you say this has just started happening. How recently? Is it possible that she has something like a urinary tract infection (UTI)? That can cause a massive disruption in behaviour. Have you spoken to her GP about the wandering?
I realise that this probably isn't what you want to hear. It may be necessary to "granny proof" your home in the same way as you would "child proof". The problem is, an adults height and reach makes this much tougher. Wandering tends to be a stage although it can be a very looooong stage. Would if be possible to stop her accessing your and the childrens's rooms rather than the other way around?
Have you tried any visual clues? For example, putting a sign on the inside of her bedroom door along the lines of a shop Open/Closed sign, indicating that she should or should not come out of her room. Alternatively, and this may still trigger disruptive behaviour, some of the american sites that sell products for people with dementia, sell door size posters that visually disguise a door (e.g. a picture of a book case) so the person doesn't "see" it as a door.
Take care
I understand where you are coming from, and in truth, while a professional carer could never get away with this, and it is both unethical and potentially dangerous, I wouldn't be surprised if people do this and get away with it. However, I think Christin has hit the nail on the head - it almost certainly wouldn't have the desired effect (to keep the rest of the family from being disturbed).
You should definitely be able to get a disabling device for the gas stove, although how expensive that will be will depend on your stove. When she tries to make a cup of tea, does she use a kettle? It may be necessary to remove that from sight as well. As to the washing of the bed pad - I don't have any idea about how to stop that. People with dementia will do this sort of thing, believing they are helping.
I would be concerned, though, if she is wearing pads, how the bed pad itself is getting soaked through. You say a carer comes in twice a day, but I assume the pad she is wearing is being changed more frequently than that? It may be that you need to investigate another form of continence pad if it is being soaked through regularly. There are many different kinds and it may be that if her bed pad isn't getting soaked she won't feel the need to wash it.
Also, you say this has just started happening. How recently? Is it possible that she has something like a urinary tract infection (UTI)? That can cause a massive disruption in behaviour. Have you spoken to her GP about the wandering?
I realise that this probably isn't what you want to hear. It may be necessary to "granny proof" your home in the same way as you would "child proof". The problem is, an adults height and reach makes this much tougher. Wandering tends to be a stage although it can be a very looooong stage. Would if be possible to stop her accessing your and the childrens's rooms rather than the other way around?
Have you tried any visual clues? For example, putting a sign on the inside of her bedroom door along the lines of a shop Open/Closed sign, indicating that she should or should not come out of her room. Alternatively, and this may still trigger disruptive behaviour, some of the american sites that sell products for people with dementia, sell door size posters that visually disguise a door (e.g. a picture of a book case) so the person doesn't "see" it as a door.
Take care
Hello,
I don't think you could safely lock someone behind a door between 11pm and 06:30 am. Apart from the obvious concerns about their own ability to handle being locked-in, (and we can all imagine what kind of feelings of torment and torture that may bring forth), let alone the dangers if 'something were to happen' which resulted in your MIL not being able to escape to freedom, you may also fall foul of the Mental Capacity Act (MCA).
The MCA requires you (and not only you, but others too) to act and to make decisions in the best interests (hackneyed phrase, yes) of the person without the mental capacity to make decisions for him/herself. So you may have come to the point of deciding whether your wish to lock the door is in the best interests of your MIL, or in the best interests of your own children.
Yes, you must prioritise the safety and wellbeing of the children. But you are not required to work out the best way to safeguard your MIL who has dementia. That is, or rather should be, the responsibility of the healthcare professionals.
And working that one out may require more than any single person posting as a TP member can offer you.
I also have young children
Hi.
Just thought I would drop you a quick message because I also have young children (aged 3 and 1 and a half) and a mother with dementia (both she and I had our children later in our lives). I find it hard work and I don't live with her, although was considering doing so a while back - take a look at my posts. So I can only begin to imagine what it is like for you. But I can empathise on the juggling of looking after young children and someone with dementia.
My mother is currently locked in her own home on occasion which is not ideal. The psychiatrist is aware of this and it is really just the lesser of 2 evils. If we let her out she would be more of a danger to herself and others than if we lock her in. But this really is only a temporary make do measure. She goes in to a home this Saturday.
Hi.
Just thought I would drop you a quick message because I also have young children (aged 3 and 1 and a half) and a mother with dementia (both she and I had our children later in our lives). I find it hard work and I don't live with her, although was considering doing so a while back - take a look at my posts. So I can only begin to imagine what it is like for you. But I can empathise on the juggling of looking after young children and someone with dementia.
My mother is currently locked in her own home on occasion which is not ideal. The psychiatrist is aware of this and it is really just the lesser of 2 evils. If we let her out she would be more of a danger to herself and others than if we lock her in. But this really is only a temporary make do measure. She goes in to a home this Saturday.
Hi fruittea,
I'm part of my partner's Mum's 'care team', which includes professional carers, taking it in turns to stay over and look after her. I'm trying to think creatively about similar challenges, especially determined daytime wandering. I came across an interesting tip of putting a mirror on the back of a door or disguising the door by the way it is painted which apparently can distract someone from going out (haven't tried this yet and aware a mirror might be frightening).
We have found a movement sensitive video monitor invaluable at night. I am a light sleeper and prefer the setting which turns the display on only when movement sets it off which is enough to wake me. A quick glance usually assures me all is well but also means more unfortunate things can be responded to quickly. Her psychiatrist actually suggested a childproof catch for the front door and I'm considering putting high bolts on some internal doors, eg carer's bedroom, especially since nowadays a lot of different items can apparently look like a toilet...
Could you put a high bolt on your kitchen door for example?
The idea not being to lock her into her room but prevent her from getting into areas which could be dangerous if unsupervised.
A commode may be well worth trying, perhaps you could make the area immediately outside MIL's bedroom door look a bit bathroom like at night by just putting a couple of things in strategic positions. If she likes washing or folding things as a purposeful activity is there anything easy you could leave to hand for her to occupy herself with at night eg pile of tea towels.
My local vacuum cleaner repair centre sells a very good spray to tackle carpet accidents such as you describe. I think there is also a good anti bacterial and urine odour masking spray available online.
Apologies if this all sounds insane or not at all practical/appropriate.
I can't imagine the difficulty of looking after your family at the same time, my lesser challenges stretch me. A lot of people on this forum do seem to be made of jolly stern stuff, my admiration goes out to you.
Good luck,
Clarey
I'm part of my partner's Mum's 'care team', which includes professional carers, taking it in turns to stay over and look after her. I'm trying to think creatively about similar challenges, especially determined daytime wandering. I came across an interesting tip of putting a mirror on the back of a door or disguising the door by the way it is painted which apparently can distract someone from going out (haven't tried this yet and aware a mirror might be frightening).
We have found a movement sensitive video monitor invaluable at night. I am a light sleeper and prefer the setting which turns the display on only when movement sets it off which is enough to wake me. A quick glance usually assures me all is well but also means more unfortunate things can be responded to quickly. Her psychiatrist actually suggested a childproof catch for the front door and I'm considering putting high bolts on some internal doors, eg carer's bedroom, especially since nowadays a lot of different items can apparently look like a toilet...
Could you put a high bolt on your kitchen door for example?
The idea not being to lock her into her room but prevent her from getting into areas which could be dangerous if unsupervised.
A commode may be well worth trying, perhaps you could make the area immediately outside MIL's bedroom door look a bit bathroom like at night by just putting a couple of things in strategic positions. If she likes washing or folding things as a purposeful activity is there anything easy you could leave to hand for her to occupy herself with at night eg pile of tea towels.
My local vacuum cleaner repair centre sells a very good spray to tackle carpet accidents such as you describe. I think there is also a good anti bacterial and urine odour masking spray available online.
Apologies if this all sounds insane or not at all practical/appropriate.
I can't imagine the difficulty of looking after your family at the same time, my lesser challenges stretch me. A lot of people on this forum do seem to be made of jolly stern stuff, my admiration goes out to you.
Good luck,
Clarey
I have a similar problem, as I look after my one year old grandson two days a week and MIL lives with us. I have countered the night wandering by making sure that she is as safe as possible, ie no trip hazards, lights left on for toilets and front and back doors deadlocked of a night time when we all go to bed.
Over the years, I've had to become adept at second guessing ( leave only a few biscuits in a tin specifically for her, she eats the lot if you leave a whole tin out, the same with sweets and cakes etc.) You'd think leaving the fruit bowl would be safe, but I learned that a whole hand of bananas or 8 satsumas don't do much for the state of the bathroom in the morning. Not very pleasant, especially when you have early visitors. And why use the towel and not the toilet roll.
Just lately, she's taken to tearing bits off of dry bread, so I guess looking for another method other than a bread bin will be necessary. I'm lucky that as she lived in a bungalow, she doesn't seem to realise that the inner hall to our upstairs is part of the same house, so she rarely attempts to get upstairs.
I'm a light sleeper, so I hear her wandering in the night, opening and closing doors etc. I would hear if she had a fall and cried out.
I do have to worry about the grandson crawling, as she's not very good with getting to the loo without a trail of wee, and its not nice to think what else he crawls over. She also has me worried with her tablets, as she's so devious at ways of not taking them, and I find them on the floor, even if I've stood over her, she spits them out at the earliest opportunity.
I think there will come a time when my grandson's welfare over rides my ability to look after her, making a choice will not be easy.
Over the years, I've had to become adept at second guessing ( leave only a few biscuits in a tin specifically for her, she eats the lot if you leave a whole tin out, the same with sweets and cakes etc.) You'd think leaving the fruit bowl would be safe, but I learned that a whole hand of bananas or 8 satsumas don't do much for the state of the bathroom in the morning. Not very pleasant, especially when you have early visitors. And why use the towel and not the toilet roll.
Just lately, she's taken to tearing bits off of dry bread, so I guess looking for another method other than a bread bin will be necessary. I'm lucky that as she lived in a bungalow, she doesn't seem to realise that the inner hall to our upstairs is part of the same house, so she rarely attempts to get upstairs.
I'm a light sleeper, so I hear her wandering in the night, opening and closing doors etc. I would hear if she had a fall and cried out.
I do have to worry about the grandson crawling, as she's not very good with getting to the loo without a trail of wee, and its not nice to think what else he crawls over. She also has me worried with her tablets, as she's so devious at ways of not taking them, and I find them on the floor, even if I've stood over her, she spits them out at the earliest opportunity.
I think there will come a time when my grandson's welfare over rides my ability to look after her, making a choice will not be easy.
Sounds like a really difficult situation. You probably will not be able to make everything 'safe' - you will only be able to do your best.
It's a small point, but it is easy to get a gas fitter to insert a safety handle on the gas stove which can be away from the stove so you can just turn off the supply of gas to the cooker. It didn't cost a lot - about £40 I seem to remember.
The other things though are harder. If your MIL's behaviour is distressing to your children, you may need to consider if she should be living somewhere else - I think this is a kinder option than locking her in a room, though others may disagree.
It's a small point, but it is easy to get a gas fitter to insert a safety handle on the gas stove which can be away from the stove so you can just turn off the supply of gas to the cooker. It didn't cost a lot - about £40 I seem to remember.
The other things though are harder. If your MIL's behaviour is distressing to your children, you may need to consider if she should be living somewhere else - I think this is a kinder option than locking her in a room, though others may disagree.
